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Active: 765 users

Should "Deal Making" be illegal? - Page 17

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 15 16 17 18 19 75 Next
zeru
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
8156 Posts
September 02 2011 00:41 GMT
#321
--- Nuked ---
Madkipz
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Norway1643 Posts
September 02 2011 00:41 GMT
#322
The concept of sharing or splitting price money in a mutual friendship after the match is done and over with is fine, but the concept of throwing games because of a before game made decition is not fine.
"Mudkip"
Minigun
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
619 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-02 00:42:29
September 02 2011 00:42 GMT
#323
On September 02 2011 09:41 zeru wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 09:38 coL.Minigun wrote:
On September 02 2011 09:33 Kaitlin wrote:
To Fayth and Minigun and any other "pros" that seem to think this is fine:

Do your team sponsors care all ALL about tournament results of the players they are investing in ? Are such results not posted on your team websites, and cited as your "credentials" for such things as providing coaching or doing promotional videos for whatever products your sponsors have?

You guys don't see a problem with SC2 credentials being little more than titles in professional wrestling ?


Who says they still aren't trying to win?

Just because two players agree to split the winnings, doesn't mean they play bad.

If I were to split with a player I was going up against, I would still try my hardest, to get that #1 spot for my team or w/e.

We are mainly talking about the TT1/Fenix case here though, where TT1 did throw games and wasn't playing to win like he usually would have.


seems the OP is talking about deal making in general, which is what I was referring to.

I don't think games should be thrown but I think deal making is 100% fine

“Quiet people have the loudest minds.” ― Stephen Hawking
shtdisturbance
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada613 Posts
September 02 2011 00:42 GMT
#324
If it is your team mate and more importantly your friend I think it is more than reasonable. They don't need to announce it publicly but should be able to. Either way its unfixable, what if the winner just gives the other player 5k of the total 10k on a later date for a "present"?
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
September 02 2011 00:42 GMT
#325
On September 02 2011 09:41 zeru wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 09:38 coL.Minigun wrote:
On September 02 2011 09:33 Kaitlin wrote:
To Fayth and Minigun and any other "pros" that seem to think this is fine:

Do your team sponsors care all ALL about tournament results of the players they are investing in ? Are such results not posted on your team websites, and cited as your "credentials" for such things as providing coaching or doing promotional videos for whatever products your sponsors have?

You guys don't see a problem with SC2 credentials being little more than titles in professional wrestling ?


Who says they still aren't trying to win?

Just because two players agree to split the winnings, doesn't mean they play bad.

If I were to split with a player I was going up against, I would still try my hardest, to get that #1 spot for my team or w/e.

We are mainly talking about the TT1/Fenix case here though, where TT1 did throw games and wasn't playing to win like he usually would have.

I was under the impression that this thread is for the discussion of deal making in a very general sense.
Spacekyod
Profile Joined December 2010
United States818 Posts
September 02 2011 00:42 GMT
#326
I scanned the first three pages and didn't see any response to SSG, but i am also very curious about this to. In the U.S. at least, how does this prize money splitting work out in the way of taxes?
Riders of the Plastic Groove. "When all-in fails, all-in again!" Finally... Make way for the real DONG!
SKtheAnathema
Profile Joined September 2010
United States885 Posts
September 02 2011 00:43 GMT
#327
even if this was super unethical and illegal, there is nothing you can do about this and no way to enforce it... especially, if a deal is made between two friends.

it's like telling someone else "hey, you're not allowed to give your friend money."
Gegenschein
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada107 Posts
September 02 2011 00:44 GMT
#328
On September 02 2011 09:31 babylon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 09:25 zeru wrote:
On September 02 2011 09:23 babylon wrote:
On September 02 2011 09:18 zeru wrote:
On September 02 2011 09:12 ReignFayth wrote:
On September 02 2011 09:07 HoldenR wrote:
On September 02 2011 09:00 ReignFayth wrote:
how anyone can mix up match fixing and deal making completely baffles me

How a "pro" can defend the concept of throwing games completely baffles me.

You are extremely biased as a player. It is up to the spectators to decide whether this is matchmaking or not, not you. And let's face it, considering TT1 threw the game, it meets the very definition of matchmaking in this case.

I think it should be handled on a case by case basis. This is obviously a case of blatant match fixing. Deal with it.

dude players are usually both spectators and players, you see different players competing all the time, other pros watch them

and NONE of them give a shit if they split the prize

and let's assume TT1 threw 1 game, it wouldn't even be matchmaking, they didn't agree that TT1 would throw a game, he just decided to be a moron about it, I'm also assuming this wasn't a BO1 final, so people seem to have put aside the other games played, maybe this 1 base carrier build had worked previously

Don't think anyone is gonna take you seriously anymore after saying something like that.

Teamkills can be weird, man. Don't tell me you didn't think that Ganzi's proxy supply depot against Taeja wasn't dumb and/or crazy at first. I wouldn't have thought it would work, but it did.

Anyways, it's impossible to actually prove beyond a doubt that TT1 threw the game because of the deal.

The proxy barracks depot was a pretty damn smart 1 time/rare build. Are you really gonna claim 1 base carrier is the same thing as that.

Bad example? Okay, but my point is that teamkills can be weird, especially with the mindgames involved, and that it's impossible to determine why he decided to go 1-base carriers, which is normally the dumbest thing to do ever.


Even though I think Fenix is more to blame than TT1 in this situation, I must remind you that it is TT1 himself that insisted on the fact that he used a 1-base carrier stategy in that game -- it was in fact one of his arguments. Which can only mean that he considers that he didn't played that game seriously.
You and whose 200/200 fully upgraded army?
zeru
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
8156 Posts
September 02 2011 00:45 GMT
#329
--- Nuked ---
Chriscras
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Korea (South)2812 Posts
September 02 2011 00:45 GMT
#330
Okay but do we think Losira and Nestea split the GSL finals?

Because that would mean Nestea basically donated $30K to Losira in order to keep the peace O.O
"En taro adun, Executor."
repsac
Profile Joined March 2011
91 Posts
September 02 2011 00:45 GMT
#331
i don't have a problem with them agreeing to a pre-arranged split of winnings.

this throwing games shit is pathetic tho.
KimJongChill
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6429 Posts
September 02 2011 00:46 GMT
#332
If we want this to look legitimate, then obviously this kind of behavior is inappropriate.
MMA: U realise MMA: Most of my army EgIdra: fuck off MMA: Killed my orbital MMA: LOL MMA: just saying MMA: u werent loss
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
September 02 2011 00:46 GMT
#333
The only time I wouldn't have a problem with this "deal making" is when it's two players from the same team, since they ultimately work hard to help each other and (I assume) some portion of the money goes to the team anyways.

However, assuming this is against tournament rules, there's a reason it's against the rules and players run the risk of losing the prize money altogether, let alone being dropped by their sponsors and / or team, if caught.

I think the solution is for the tournaments to readjust the allocation of the prize money so that it's not so top heavy. However, they use the size of the 1st place prize to promote the tournament, so there's only so far they can go.
bloodmeat
Profile Joined August 2010
United States160 Posts
September 02 2011 00:46 GMT
#334
On September 02 2011 09:42 coL.Minigun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 09:41 zeru wrote:
On September 02 2011 09:38 coL.Minigun wrote:
On September 02 2011 09:33 Kaitlin wrote:
To Fayth and Minigun and any other "pros" that seem to think this is fine:

Do your team sponsors care all ALL about tournament results of the players they are investing in ? Are such results not posted on your team websites, and cited as your "credentials" for such things as providing coaching or doing promotional videos for whatever products your sponsors have?

You guys don't see a problem with SC2 credentials being little more than titles in professional wrestling ?


Who says they still aren't trying to win?

Just because two players agree to split the winnings, doesn't mean they play bad.

If I were to split with a player I was going up against, I would still try my hardest, to get that #1 spot for my team or w/e.

We are mainly talking about the TT1/Fenix case here though, where TT1 did throw games and wasn't playing to win like he usually would have.


seems the OP is talking about deal making in general, which is what I was referring to.

I don't think games should be thrown but I think deal making is 100% fine



If it truly made no difference and players still played at 110% then yeah, I wouldn't have a problem with it at all. It's just tough for me to believe that every player who made deals would try as hard as if they hadn't made a deal. I mean somewhere in the back of your head, if you know you're going to make an extra thousand bucks for the win then I would imagine you're going to play a little bit harder. I could be way off base as you're the pro here and I definitely respect your opinion.

Oh and I'm a big fan, love your work!!!
Your mom is ruining esports.
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
September 02 2011 00:47 GMT
#335
On September 02 2011 09:45 zeru wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 09:42 babylon wrote:
On September 02 2011 09:41 zeru wrote:
On September 02 2011 09:38 coL.Minigun wrote:
On September 02 2011 09:33 Kaitlin wrote:
To Fayth and Minigun and any other "pros" that seem to think this is fine:

Do your team sponsors care all ALL about tournament results of the players they are investing in ? Are such results not posted on your team websites, and cited as your "credentials" for such things as providing coaching or doing promotional videos for whatever products your sponsors have?

You guys don't see a problem with SC2 credentials being little more than titles in professional wrestling ?


Who says they still aren't trying to win?

Just because two players agree to split the winnings, doesn't mean they play bad.

If I were to split with a player I was going up against, I would still try my hardest, to get that #1 spot for my team or w/e.

We are mainly talking about the TT1/Fenix case here though, where TT1 did throw games and wasn't playing to win like he usually would have.

I was under the impression that this thread is for the discussion of deal making in a very general sense.

The thread is about deal making in general, but the current discussion wasn't and from looking at your posts in this thread you are aware of that too ^^.

Actually, looking back through the quotes, you're the one who brought up TT1/Fenix in this particular singular discussion that arose out of Kaitlin's comment.
DEN1ED
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1087 Posts
September 02 2011 00:48 GMT
#336
On September 02 2011 09:45 Chriscras wrote:
Okay but do we think Losira and Nestea split the GSL finals?

Because that would mean Nestea basically donated $30K to Losira in order to keep the peace O.O


It wouldn't surprise me. Only a few seconds after being completely crushed 4-0, Losira was all smiles. So either they split or Losira takes an ass beating better than anyone I've ever seen.
hyptonic
Profile Joined June 2011
2155 Posts
September 02 2011 00:48 GMT
#337
think of all the shitty GSL finals

they could have all been split.

MarineKing is not sliver king, but splitking (money and marines)
Ziktomini
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom377 Posts
September 02 2011 00:49 GMT
#338
I remember when I used to watch Destiny's stream I once saw a final of a competition between him and Sheth, at this point I did not really know who Sheth was, but I knew that he was a player who was better than Destiny, and Destiny mentioned something about the money being why he couldn't be a pro-gamer, and Sheth in reply said something along the lines of "well if the money is a problem for you how about we split the money from this tournament". The tournament wasn't a big one and was only $100 I think, but the gesture was one of the most mannered and nicest things I've seen on sc2 considering the chances were far greater for Sheth to win than Destiny, and as expected Sheth went on to win 3-1.

I guess the story doesn't add to the argument, but it is related and may be part of the reason I definitely have no problem with this.
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
September 02 2011 00:49 GMT
#339
On September 02 2011 09:48 DEN1ED wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 09:45 Chriscras wrote:
Okay but do we think Losira and Nestea split the GSL finals?

Because that would mean Nestea basically donated $30K to Losira in order to keep the peace O.O


It wouldn't surprise me. Only a few seconds after being completely crushed 4-0, Losira was all smiles. So either they split or Losira takes an ass beating better than anyone I've ever seen.

I don't think NesTea would chop with Losira, mostly because NesTea was the heavy favorite and Losira didn't really have a chance.

However, it wouldn't surprise me at all if MVP and NesTea made a deal to split 60/40 or 55/45 at the Blizzcon finals if they both get there.
Kaitlin
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2958 Posts
September 02 2011 00:50 GMT
#340
On September 02 2011 09:42 Spacekyod wrote:
I scanned the first three pages and didn't see any response to SSG, but i am also very curious about this to. In the U.S. at least, how does this prize money splitting work out in the way of taxes?


Expect the tournament to report the total amount of the prize winnings for first place as being paid to the first place player. If winner's tax return doesn't report the amount of income reported to the IRS by the tournament, they get IRS to deal with. Those who think there is no way to prove it can pay attention to this.
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