PS: you can place a baneling in zvz now even lower on the ramp, so lings running up are more clumped. Think that is more serious then the pvp change (get the robo a bit earlier so the immortal is out in time and you can instant snipe units warped up hill, not a good idea to gain vision for the 4 gate)
4gate fixed??? - Page 5
Forum Index > SC2 General |
FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
PS: you can place a baneling in zvz now even lower on the ramp, so lings running up are more clumped. Think that is more serious then the pvp change (get the robo a bit earlier so the immortal is out in time and you can instant snipe units warped up hill, not a good idea to gain vision for the 4 gate) | ||
aka_star
United Kingdom1546 Posts
On August 26 2011 10:57 Chexx wrote: Just an Idea... do you have time to research hallucination when you do a 4gate? Just hallucinate a phoenix(VR, etc) to get vision of the highground. Then it should be possible to warp in / blink in to the highground. Just an idea of a plat player. Blink has been slowed and with the immortal range increase I'm not sure thats viable, but I'm sure people will try and give it ago. The hullo and warp is a nice idea but again it slows down the 4gate and requires an offensive sentry to do it. So perhaps 4 gate is dead | ||
BronzeKnee
United States5208 Posts
■Added a flag to Warp Train abilities to disable warp-in on ramps. Thus, the 4 warp gate is dead, since it can be stopped by constant FF's on the ramp, while the defender techs. Funny that I brought this up as the fix on this forum and the PTR forum as as a fix for the 4 gate prior to the 1.3 patch, but instead Blizzard ruined all the Protoss early game timings, then decided to do this fix. | ||
ManaO
Italy185 Posts
They will run out of ff's eventually, and if they keep producing sentries their unit count will be smaller and with less dps anyway so who cares they will die eventually | ||
aka_star
United Kingdom1546 Posts
On August 26 2011 23:47 ManaO wrote: 4gate in pvp was never an issue of warp over FFs, this won't really change anything. They will run out of ff's eventually, and if they keep producing sentries their unit count will be smaller and with less dps anyway so who cares they will die eventually Yea unless they build a warp prisim and made a round of zealots in your base why you camp his ramp | ||
BronzeKnee
United States5208 Posts
On August 26 2011 23:47 ManaO wrote: 4gate in pvp was never an issue of warp over FFs, this won't really change anything. They will run out of ff's eventually, and if they keep producing sentries their unit count will be smaller and with less dps anyway so who cares they will die eventually 4 Sentries can almost indefinitely FF a ramp, and 5 sentries easily have enough energy too. This is a huge deal. It isn't like you can wait 30 seconds and then kill him. Basically if you want to win after opening with a 4 gate either you sit on the bottom of his ramp massing Gateway units until he misses a FF or your transition out, and in that case you'll be behind in tech and economy, and you'll lose your unit lead soon too. | ||
Soleron
United Kingdom1324 Posts
On August 26 2011 23:47 ManaO wrote: 4gate in pvp was never an issue of warp over FFs, this won't really change anything. They will run out of ff's eventually, and if they keep producing sentries their unit count will be smaller and with less dps anyway so who cares they will die eventually Sentry DPS: 6 Stalker DPS: 6.9 You're not losing much DPS. The extra minerals from 2 sentries will give you another zealot to warp in to make it up. They also still have to walk up the ramp giving the defender a concave AND free shots until they get vision (which is even later now) | ||
BronzeKnee
United States5208 Posts
On August 26 2011 23:52 Soleron wrote: Sentries do more DPS than a Stalker I believe. Really? Sentries do 6 damage per second. Stalkers do 6.94 to light units and 9.72 to armored units. | ||
ProxyKnoxy
United Kingdom2576 Posts
On August 26 2011 10:57 Chexx wrote: Just an Idea... do you have time to research hallucination when you do a 4gate? Just hallucinate a phoenix(VR, etc) to get vision of the highground. Then it should be possible to warp in / blink in to the highground. Just an idea of a plat player. You normally attack a few moments after warp gate finishes so no | ||
Stijx
United States804 Posts
| ||
dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
On August 26 2011 23:46 BronzeKnee wrote: Far more important than the sight distance reduction, is the fact that you cannot warp in units on ramps regardless if there is a FF present there or not. Thus, the 4 warp gate is dead, since it can be stopped by constant FF's on the ramp, while the defender techs. Funny that I brought this up as the fix on this forum and the PTR forum as as a fix for the 4 gate prior to the 1.3 patch, but instead Blizzard ruined all the Protoss early game timings, then decided to do this fix. Interesting, I haven't read this before in any of the PTR discussion threads. Then I wonder why the vision was lowered, as even in the current patch you cannot actually get high ground vision with a Force Field placed at the lower part of the ramp. Maybe Blizzard wanted to give the defender an error/reaction time margin; so you can probably place the FF 1 spot more upward than in the 1st picture of this thread (the 2nd picture seems to have placed the FF like 2 spots upward, but I might be wrong) and still the attacker will not have high ground vision. If all the possible FF positions are the 3 listed in the OP then I don't know why they would adjust the vision if you cannot warp in @ ramp anyway. Aside from that it's kinda hacky to just disable warping in on the ramp imo but I guess if it fixes it everybody is happy -- edit It seems those 3 pictures do represent all positions of the FF on the ramp (although only #1 and #2 are the real ones imo, in #3 the FF already overlaps with the ground). So then I wonder why the vision was decreased because simply disabling warp in @ ramp seems good enough then anyway. | ||
StarCraft64
United States354 Posts
On August 26 2011 23:46 BronzeKnee wrote: Far more important than the sight distance reduction, is the fact that you cannot warp in units on ramps regardless if there is a FF present there or not. Thus, the 4 warp gate is dead, since it can be stopped by constant FF's on the ramp, while the defender techs. Funny that I brought this up as the fix on this forum and the PTR forum as as a fix for the 4 gate prior to the 1.3 patch, but instead Blizzard ruined all the Protoss early game timings, then decided to do this fix. That is a line from the Custom Map section, and does not apply to standard gameplay. This just gives map makers the ability to disallow warping in on ramps if they so please. | ||
Linwelin
Ireland7554 Posts
| ||
Montana[TK]
1624 Posts
On August 26 2011 10:42 Arcanne wrote: good things happen once i stop playing game should be decent in ~ a year. If only it wasn't for HOTS. thanks OP, nice find | ||
PlayerSFoxeR
Ireland44 Posts
I STILL mess up my placements, can't get used to the teeny tiny range TT; | ||
zarepath
United States1626 Posts
On August 27 2011 00:19 StarCraft64 wrote: That is a line from the Custom Map section, and does not apply to standard gameplay. This just gives map makers the ability to disallow warping in on ramps if they so please. Wait... so GSL mapmakers can make melee maps that disallow warping-in on ramps? Consider it done. | ||
Puph
Canada635 Posts
I was under the impression that all these subtopics about balance belong in the General Balance Thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=255254 Or at the very least, inside their designated PTR thread. IMO its ridiculous to have a thread about every balance change. And on topic, I don't see this being a problem/fix to anything. If you 4gated late that is your own fault | ||
BronzeKnee
United States5208 Posts
On August 27 2011 00:19 StarCraft64 wrote: That is a line from the Custom Map section, and does not apply to standard gameplay. This just gives map makers the ability to disallow warping in on ramps if they so please. This is incorrect, when I played games on ladder maps with the PTR I could not warp in units onto the ramp. I was testing to see whether or not you could warp over FF when I found this out. So obviously it applies to standard Blizzard maps and thus ladder maps. Try it out yourself, you can no longer warp units onto ramps regardless of the presence of FF or how much/little sight you have. The sight nerf was not needed, and in my opinion, neither was the warpgate nerf from 1.3. I suggested this change on this forum and in the PTR forum before 1.3 came out, and yet now it makes it appearance. | ||
Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
On August 26 2011 23:47 ManaO wrote: 4gate in pvp was never an issue of warp over FFs, this won't really change anything. They will run out of ff's eventually, and if they keep producing sentries their unit count will be smaller and with less dps anyway so who cares they will die eventually It really does affect 4 gates in a huge way. Now with a mere 4 sentries you can FF indefinitely, while you tech to one base colossi/DT/ w/e so that you can break the contain and have a tech lead. | ||
BronzeKnee
United States5208 Posts
Thus, regardless of the sight change, a 4 gate is easily stopped with sentry play. | ||
| ||