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On August 26 2011 10:57 Chexx wrote: Just an Idea... do you have time to research hallucination when you do a 4gate? Just hallucinate a phoenix(VR, etc) to get vision of the highground. Then it should be possible to warp in / blink in to the highground.
Just an idea of a plat player.
2 gas 4 gate and you wait like 2 minutes for it to tech. sure.
Why don't they make warpgate also decrease time it takes to create units from gateways, or have it a different upgrade that techs faster. So you can get more units out with less gates causing a 4 gate to actually be an all in or taken out so PvP isn't a 4 gate fest.
Example. If warpgate allows warp in every 30 seconds, allow units to me created from gateway every 25 seconds or something, give the advantage to the defender with gateways being a seperate tech, or if it is same tech make warpgates being morphed like a 20-30 second cast to essentially cause an entire missed warp in so defender has the advantage. PvP is boring and seems kinda broken/volatile and this would probably fix it, but not sure how it would fuck other matchups as protoss are already getting buffed in 1.4
Would probably help vs 1/1/1 as you only make warpgates when you want to attack and you get more units per gateway allowing you to safely 2 gate expand like you have 3 warpgates currently.
I don't play Toss, but i hate watching it on GSL so im kinda glad terran is dominating so hard.
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i like how no one is really complaining about the huge 30 second delay in blink research time.
to be honest as a toss player i always felt blink was too fast, i usually only chrono boost it 2-3times max and be surprised that it was already done.
charge on the other hand...
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On August 26 2011 10:42 SoapSC wrote:This actually also means that blink stalkers are useless now if u cant get the vision anymore to blink over the FF Im sad . or you can do Hukstyle and get a robo and blink
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Those who keep saying preventing warp in on higher ground can't stop 4wg are obviously playing PvP on a lower level.
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How does this fixes the problem for maps with wide ramp (or even no ramp) ie. Taldarim Altar.
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On August 26 2011 12:57 PuercoPop wrote: How does this fixes the problem for maps with wide ramp (or even no ramp) ie. Taldarim Altar.
It doesn't.
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I guess i need to learn how to macro now..
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On August 26 2011 10:46 Theovide wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 10:44 SpiZe wrote: You can still try and force your way up until he doesn't have anymore FF (or until he spends 500 gas on sentry) but this is a big nerf. Nerf for who? :p, it only affects PvP?
Isn't that the point?
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On August 26 2011 10:52 MonkSEA wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 10:50 Jerubaal wrote: So are they going to revert the warpgate nerf? Why would they do that? Warpgate 'nerf' didn't do all too much :\ hmm, 4 gates in PvT and PvZ was completely fucked by that WG nerf, what are you talking about.
Nice to see this btw, I don't really like 4 gates war at all. Hopefully 1 sentry could help out a lot.
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The 4gate in PvP in medium levels (masters and above) was fixed with the warpgate nerf. However the lack of scouting options in PvP are still a issue : (
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Canada13372 Posts
On August 26 2011 10:44 SpiZe wrote: You can still try and force your way up until he doesn't have anymore FF (or until he spends 500 gas on sentry) but this is a big nerf.
But if you stall long enough for a power unit like the immortal and have decent concave and positioning its much easier to hold a 4 gate while teching at least a little bit. This being said, if someone gets greedy and does a 2gas 13gate opening then even forcefields wont be able to save them effectively.
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This is why I always build a pylon at the top of the opponent's ramp as well as the bottom. Don't need to warp in over a forcefield then; just warp directly into his base. At the point of the game where you drop your proxy pylons it's unusual for an opponent to have units in position to prevent a probe from scurrying up the ramp and making a pylon right at the top.
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On August 26 2011 10:53 dbddbddb wrote: imo if this fixes PvP... increase the radius of pylons and un-nerf warpgate time =\
BW pylon > SC2 pylon :p
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On August 26 2011 10:57 Chexx wrote: Just an Idea... do you have time to research hallucination when you do a 4gate? Just hallucinate a phoenix(VR, etc) to get vision of the highground. Then it should be possible to warp in / blink in to the highground.
Just an idea of a plat player.
You sadly don't have time, a well-executed 4 gate hits maybe 20 seconds after WG finishes, definitely no time for hallucination, also getting a sentry on offense and waiting for energy would also be a problem.
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4 gate will still punish greed, just not tech. And it will punish hard tech, because you need sentries to hold the ramp. What it won't be able to do is auto-win against light tech, which is a very welcome change.
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We should get our old warp gate timing back, it would greatly help with 1-1-1 all in, as we would have one round more units when attack hits
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This change doesnt just affect PvP. It affects roach busts and early bio pressure as well. It will prevent marines from even seeing up the ramp unless they waste a scan (which means 1 less mule).
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On August 26 2011 10:53 dbddbddb wrote: imo if this fixes PvP... increase the radius of pylons and un-nerf warpgate time =\
This, definitely. These changes unwittingly hurt Protoss in PvT and PvZ just to make PvP more playable.
However, if this vision nerf does the trick, then we don't need those two nerfs anymore.
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Maybe we'll see PvP actually revolutionized and changed this time around ^_^
I sure hope so.
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If they did this sooner it would be so good, good thing still it's coming this patch!
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