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On August 29 2011 03:54 Olsson wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2011 03:09 Blyadischa wrote:
The problem with infestors is that they are the answer to everything.
Worker harass? Fungal growth + infested terrans
Lots of units balled up? Fungal growth
High tier units that threaten to kill everything you have? Neural parasite
Units to counter infestors? Fungal growth or neural parasite and use them to counter themselves. The problem with ghosts is that they are the answer to everything. Worker harass? Nukes + snipe + auto attack. Lots of units balled up? Nuke + emp. Units to counter ghosts? Only HT's.
Nuke cost hella money and research and time to land when you have warning. All you need to counter ghost is one single canon.
While you just need to burrow infestors, throw in 50 infestors, right click the nexus and run for free.
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Well apart from the immobilize which can be easily chained--which kills micro which I enjoy to watch--the fact that you can amass a million infestors unlike you can with their counterparts seems to be a big problem. Maybe they should up the food count infestors take up so if you amass that much your overall army will be smaller.
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On August 29 2011 04:22 tuho12345 wrote:
Nuke cost hella money and research and time to land when you have warning. All you need to counter ghost is one single canon.
While you just need to burrow infestors, throw in 50 infestors, right click the nexus and run for free.
Hella money? 100/100. The same as 2 reapers.
If you can counter a Ghost build with just 1 cannon ('canon'), why do you not have any GSL titles under your belt?
If Infestors could throw more Infestors the game would be so much more fun.
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Every unit has a counter ... except marines herpderp =D
i mean ... if course you get roflstomped by infestor if you have no ghosts and only marine
and of course you loose against infestor if you go only blinkstalker and lings can surround you.
But seriously guys. Thats the same with EEEEEVERY other unit in the game
i cant go mass hydra against colossi
i cant go roach against void ray
i cant go mass stalker versus siegetanks
i cant go zealot against shock marauder
i cant go banshe against muta
AND I CANT GO MASS MARINES AGAINST INFESTOR ... well actually you can go mass marine against banelings herp derp
So if you dont counter a unit your absolutly F*cked. Dont Complain. Learn to Play
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On August 29 2011 03:54 Olsson wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2011 03:09 Blyadischa wrote:
The problem with infestors is that they are the answer to everything.
Worker harass? Fungal growth + infested terrans
Lots of units balled up? Fungal growth
High tier units that threaten to kill everything you have? Neural parasite
Units to counter infestors? Fungal growth or neural parasite and use them to counter themselves. The problem with ghosts is that they are the answer to everything. Worker harass? Nukes + snipe + auto attack. Lots of units balled up? Nuke + emp. Units to counter ghosts? Only HT's.
Nukes are so easily countered, all you have to do is build detection and static defense, and if you don't, then just pull drones.
Detection + static defense or not, a good amount of infestors and take out bases in <10 seconds. Nukes cost money, and it takes 4 of them, 20 seconds to land to kill a nexus, cc or hatch.
EMP only does damage (not even lethal damage) vs bunched up units in TvP, not TvZ, if you're bunching up infestors vs a T you're bad. Also, ghosts are specific counters with a high cost, too many or too little and you're going to get stomped either way.
How do you counter ghosts? Don't bunch up your infestors, and don't engage until you're ready. Ghosts get jammed up hard if you just run tons of lings in, or use brood lords. After that your infestors can just fungal/NP everything.
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Yeah, Infestors are OP
I forgot that Zergs were winning every tournament. o wait
I forgot that Nestea is very Infestor heavy. o wait
TL just gets dumber by the day...
Terrans continue to go marine/tank/thor? against muta/ling/infestor and cry imbalance when they have ghosts, which in numbers, also counter BLs.
Toss continue to go for pure gateway/colossus, then a-move and don't target down Infestors NPing Colossus.
You know what, I'm done trying to even argue coherently with all the Silver idiots on this site. Infestor is imba, go cry.
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On August 29 2011 04:44 Blyadischa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2011 03:54 Olsson wrote:On August 29 2011 03:09 Blyadischa wrote:
The problem with infestors is that they are the answer to everything.
Worker harass? Fungal growth + infested terrans
Lots of units balled up? Fungal growth
High tier units that threaten to kill everything you have? Neural parasite
Units to counter infestors? Fungal growth or neural parasite and use them to counter themselves. The problem with ghosts is that they are the answer to everything. Worker harass? Nukes + snipe + auto attack. Lots of units balled up? Nuke + emp. Units to counter ghosts? Only HT's. Nukes are so easily countered, all you have to do is build detection and static defense, and if you don't, then just pull drones. Detection + static defense or not, a good amount of infestors and take out bases in <10 seconds. Nukes cost money, and it takes 4 of them, 20 seconds to land to kill a nexus, cc or hatch. EMP only does damage (not even lethal damage) vs bunched up units in TvP, not TvZ, if you're bunching up infestors vs a T you're bad. Also, ghosts are specific counters with a high cost, too many or too little and you're going to get stomped either way. How do you counter ghosts? Don't bunch up your infestors, and don't engage until you're ready. Ghosts get jammed up hard if you just run tons of lings in, or use brood lords. After that your infestors can just fungal/NP everything.
Stopping mining is good. You think every Zerg has 100 drones so we can drop enough static defense for the amount of extra bases we have to have to keep up with Terran late game? All it takes is one hole in the static defense for the cloaked ghost to sit.
There's a reason Korean Terrans slow move push across maps while building FORWARD MISSILE TURRETS. That lets your tanks see burrowed infestors. But then again, you're probably too stupid to do that too.
Ghosts are specific counters when they counter all of Zerg T3 and Infestors... right...
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On August 29 2011 03:08 Rasun wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 23:02 thisisSSK wrote:
The thing I don't like about infestors is that they are a good counter to EVERYTHING. what are they bad against, really? ghosts/templar? infestors can still fungal groups of them or even mind control and then emp/feedback/storm the other ghosts/templars. I think in one of the MLG games some one basically rushed to infestors on two base on taldarim and pwned the other player (protoss), who was also on two base, with mass lings (mineral dump) and infestors (gas dump). I don't understand your point. Basically you said, "I saw a game where a zerg used infestors and totally killed the protoss, obviously infestors are OP." What? You gave so little context or detail, I have no idea what you think is wrong with infestors.
Do I have to give every situation in which infestors are good for my argument to be valid? I think not. But other examples: infestors> dt's/banshees(sorta) because FG reveals them. imo, if you can get an infestor in the same spot as a bf hellion, the infestor can do more damage, either with infested terrans or fg. Tell me what infestors ARENT good against, or what a direct counter to them is. you can mind control archons/colossi/tanks/thors, which are pretty important in major battles.
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On August 29 2011 05:13 thisisSSK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2011 03:08 Rasun wrote:On August 28 2011 23:02 thisisSSK wrote:
The thing I don't like about infestors is that they are a good counter to EVERYTHING. what are they bad against, really? ghosts/templar? infestors can still fungal groups of them or even mind control and then emp/feedback/storm the other ghosts/templars. I think in one of the MLG games some one basically rushed to infestors on two base on taldarim and pwned the other player (protoss), who was also on two base, with mass lings (mineral dump) and infestors (gas dump). I don't understand your point. Basically you said, "I saw a game where a zerg used infestors and totally killed the protoss, obviously infestors are OP." What? You gave so little context or detail, I have no idea what you think is wrong with infestors. Tell me what infestors ARENT good against, or what a direct counter to them is. you can mind control archons/colossi/tanks/thors, which are pretty important in major battles.
HIGH TEMPLAR
GHOSTS
MICRO'D COLOSSUS (WITH ETL COLOSSI AND NP HAVE EQUAL RANGE).
God are you guys dumb?
Toss has a robo out, so he spots ahead with his obs. He sees the exact location the Infestors are coming from (along with main Z army) so he micros his colossi away, and if any colossi get NPed, insta target the infestor with the rest of your colossi or feedback it.
My God, half of you must be in fucking Platinum league or something and keep all your armies on 1.
User was temp banned for this post.
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well as a lowerleague player i know that the infestor is absolut garbage if used inccorrectly or badly thats only comment i have on them in pro level they dont seem inbalanced but when people get better it seems like it might be a tad overtuned
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On August 29 2011 04:35 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2011 04:22 tuho12345 wrote:
Nuke cost hella money and research and time to land when you have warning. All you need to counter ghost is one single canon.
While you just need to burrow infestors, throw in 50 infestors, right click the nexus and run for free. Hella money? 100/100. The same as 2 reapers. If you can counter a Ghost build with just 1 cannon ('canon'), why do you not have any GSL titles under your belt? If Infestors could throw more Infestors the game would be so much more fun.
we're talking about nuke and ghost harass the mineral not ghost rush into timing attack ok. Who the hell making ghost, research cloak, get nuke, run into expo and harass with nuke and snipe? Read the previous post pls. 1 single cannon can spot the cloaked ghost, snipe it. So I say it can be counter with 1 cannon
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On August 29 2011 04:22 tuho12345 wrote:
right click the nexus and run for free.
free? ahh apparently energy is free.
There are a lot of things you can do to beat infestors.
Big Drops / Greedy Expanding / Fortifying the center of the map
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On August 29 2011 05:26 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2011 05:13 thisisSSK wrote:On August 29 2011 03:08 Rasun wrote:On August 28 2011 23:02 thisisSSK wrote:
The thing I don't like about infestors is that they are a good counter to EVERYTHING. what are they bad against, really? ghosts/templar? infestors can still fungal groups of them or even mind control and then emp/feedback/storm the other ghosts/templars. I think in one of the MLG games some one basically rushed to infestors on two base on taldarim and pwned the other player (protoss), who was also on two base, with mass lings (mineral dump) and infestors (gas dump). I don't understand your point. Basically you said, "I saw a game where a zerg used infestors and totally killed the protoss, obviously infestors are OP." What? You gave so little context or detail, I have no idea what you think is wrong with infestors. Tell me what infestors ARENT good against, or what a direct counter to them is. you can mind control archons/colossi/tanks/thors, which are pretty important in major battles. HIGH TEMPLAR GHOSTS MICRO'D COLOSSUS (WITH ETL COLOSSI AND NP HAVE EQUAL RANGE). God are you guys dumb? Toss has a robo out, so he spots ahead with his obs. He sees the exact location the Infestors are coming from (along with main Z army) so he micros his colossi away, and if any colossi get NPed, insta target the infestor with the rest of your colossi or feedback it. My God, half of you must be in fucking Platinum league or something and keep all your armies on 1. User was temp banned for this post.
Lol? so I guess you spot every single terran drop with those observers too right? And you never get your observers fungal growthed or just killed with the help of an overseer? Hero just lost to ling infestor, which allowed DRG to tech to broodlords and I'm pretty sure Hero isn't platinum league. He also had archons and templars.
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On August 29 2011 05:47 iDrone wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2011 04:22 tuho12345 wrote:
right click the nexus and run for free. free? ahh apparently energy is free. There are a lot of things you can do to beat infestors. Big Drops / Greedy Expanding / Fortifying the center of the map
if energy is not free then how much does it cost? Pls don't tell me it's the cost of infestor and energy upgrade.
How is big drops counter to infestor as protoss? How many warprism do you need to drop? How many base should protoss take and die to lings? What does center map control has anything to do with beating infestor? Your answer isn't clarify anything.
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I honestly think the abilities themselves are fine, it's just the range on fungal growth (and maybe infested terran?) is a little bit too high. on neural parasite, however, a range shorter than what it is now would make the ability completely useless.
The range on infestor abilities makes it much more forgiving.
Also, one must be careful with storm and EMP because they do damage (or energy damage) to allied units, whereas fungal does not.
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i for one would love to see fungal become some sort of movement speed slow / damage over time spell. i would be fine with moving at 20% of my normal speed as long as i can ATTEMPT to escape. the current fungal effect leaves you so ridiculously helpless, and obviously wide open to repeated follow up fungals.
also - while i agree that fungal growth requires some skill and timely placement to achieve the strongest effect -- i do NOT find this to be true with the infested terran. to be honest the infested terran cost / dps seems, to me, just utterly random and yes im gonna say IMBALANCED. a little bit too cheap an energy cost for you to be able to COMPLETELY clear out a probe line / even an expansion in a few seconds. ----- AT THE COST OF ENERGY.
Neural parasite is awesome. aside from MAAAAAYBE its insane range i find nothing wrong with this spell. exactly what the infestor (and the zerg race as a whole) needs to truly combat insane tech units from terran / protoss.
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On August 25 2011 09:02 Jesushooves wrote:
Sick OP :D
I'm a big fan of what your did there.
Well done.
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why do I feel as if this op is just a wiki rehash?
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On August 29 2011 01:07 Aiurr wrote:
I think infestors were balanced before their buff, but zerg players just aren't good enough to do seomething else than a-move with ling/bling/muta and this is why infestor play wasn't popular. Even now most of the zerg players stick with a-move ling/bling/muta against terran
You think ling/bling/muta works with a-move? If I might offer some advice: next time a thought pops into your head that requires all the pros who choose to play a particular race to be coincidentally shit in the exact same way in order for it to be right, do your best to let it pop right out again.
Imagine for a moment Protoss never made a Colossus. Zerg would be doing a Ling/Roach/Hydra tapdance on the head of any Protoss who didn't win in the first seven minutes. Ling/Roach/Hydra would be the 'Zerg deathball' in ZvP. Then Protoss starts adding some Colossus to their armies, and all of a sudden the 'Zerg deathball' is being chewed up and spat out with close to zero Protoss casualties. Holy shit, them Colossus must be imba!
No. It just does not work like that. It's fine for an army to be a 'deathball' against one unit composition and to fall apart versus another. It's fine for heavy infestor play to force you to dust off those ghosts and work out which end the EMP comes out of, or to build turrets against something other than mutalisks. Or do what I've seen several pro Terrans do against compositions like infestor/broodlord, and exploit the inability of Zerg to split or manoeuvre their army with drops. Or flank with vikings and stim an assassination squad of marines in to prevent the infestors waiting the 12-16 seconds it takes to fungal down the air units.
I've seen lategame Zerg do very well. I've also seen it made to look utterly foolish and useless. Until what I see converges to one or the other I have no reason to attribute the variability to anything other than skill, nerve and experience.
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On August 28 2011 18:37 jstar wrote:
I think the best way to deal with the Infestor is to make it a T3 unit. Either that or a nerf to NP range. It's range is way too long atm.
Yeah man, the range of NP is rediculous, if only protoss and terran had something with as long a range..., I mean, the only way NP would be worse is if it had splash damage and killed every fucking thing in its way. Oh wait, terran and protoss do have units like that. How silly of me. Oh well, the NP is still OP because it's on zerg, and zerg is supposed to be the shitty race amirite?
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EPT
