Why 1/1/1 is considered to be imbalanced in Korea - Page 97

On August 23 2011 23:40 Zorgaz wrote:


You just defended the 1-1-1 push 20 times with fast ranged colli? Nz

Got replays?

And when did he say he would nerf it?

On August 23 2011 23:22 Kavas wrote:

I would agree if I had not seen pros beat it before like I said. So there is no reason to give up. If you're arguing it's imba on certain maps like Crossfire and Xel Naga I can appreciate it and just wait for Blizzard to update their map pool or veto them.

On August 23 2011 23:40 padfoota wrote:


im terran...yah sure i went colli off factory and played tvt with it
wat?

On August 23 2011 23:39 padfoota wrote:
on black citadel's stream. Nerfing infestor, buffing toss, nerfing terran 1 1 1
They discussed on removing shield but i doubt it will, like he quoted before - nerfing marines is like nerfing sentries - itll break the damn game

On August 23 2011 23:41 IVN wrote:

Imbalanced doesnt mean 100% unbeatable. Imbalanced means that even if you do everything right, you have a below 50% of stopping it.

On August 23 2011 23:46 flodeskum wrote:

Honestly, just making marine base HP 40 and change the shield to +15 would make a huge difference. It would also help reduce the strength of all 1 base marine scv based all-ins... which isn't a bad thing.

On August 23 2011 23:48 Zorgaz wrote:


The marines would have a much harder time against Zerg.

That would be a BIG nerf for things like 2 rax and the likes..

On August 23 2011 23:48 Bagi wrote:

If you do literally *everything* right, you should have 100% of stopping any early timing attack I think.

On August 23 2011 23:38 TimeSpiral wrote:


Certainly they're not talking about the Flux Veins ... That would be outrageous. They are certainly not talking about the KA nerf, because that would also be silly. They are probably just talking about the classic 4gate all-in (warpgate timing).

From a Terran's perspective:
(1) Tech builds are super greedy and are almost always countered by early aggression from the Toss. In this particular build, the Terran typically rushes for a reactor.

(2) The Terran has to wall otherwise early Zealot Stalker Probe pressure can do massive damage.

(3) The wall becomes a very real liability very quickly. 3gate Stargate punishes tech builds so hard, and you end up losing two SD's, a rax, and probably your reactor.

(4) This particular army composition is not very strong until it reaches a certain number and combination of units. The composition is strongest when set up in a contain which includes bunkers, towers, etc ... Keeping the fight in the middle of the map or at the Terran's front door will slow this push so incredibly badly.

(5) Stargate units pose the greatest threat, from what I've seen. Tanks cannot kill Zealots, and you will not have enough DPS to deal with the GS'd Zealots and VRs. You may even throw a phoenix or two in the mix the GB the tanks. Open 1gate Stargate on maps where you are expecting the 111 all-in.

From a person's perspective
The classic rebuttal to a post like mine is to grab some pro replay that supports your argument and say, "Look, if MC cannot do it, how do you expect us to do it?" Unless you're at the pro level you're playing scrubs like me and yourself. They will mess up. You can force them to mess up. You can screw with their plan by pressuring, flanking, setting up ambushes, or doing anything except waiting at your base for the tide of death to sweep you away.

It's really not your concern how, when or if the pros figure it out. What is your concern is how you're going to deal with it. Now, I realize that the vast majority of the metagame on the ladder in SC2 is just pro copycatting, and that is why referencing pros is so prevalant, but don't use the fact that they're struggling as a crutch for your own game.

I struggle versus tons of stuff and get great enjoyment out of troll-raging imbaimba ezmode, but when it truly comes down to it, we choose to play SC2 and have to deal with balance issues. Sometimes we get the nerfs we want, sometimes we get the buffs we want, but these tweaks will never address fundamental game-design issues that are at the heart of a lot of these debates.

On August 23 2011 23:41 IVN wrote:

Imbalanced doesnt mean 100% unbeatable. Imbalanced means that even if you do everything right, you have a below 50% of stopping it.

On August 23 2011 23:48 Bagi wrote:

If you do literally *everything* right, you should have 100% of stopping any early timing attack I think.

On August 24 2011 00:03 M2 wrote:
Sorry for the noob question ( I am not following SC2 scene very intensively) but how come this build became an issue lately and it was not in the past? Some of the patches nerfed protoss (buffed terran) or what?

On August 24 2011 00:06 H0i wrote:

First protoss could punish this by rushing if the terran would do this greedy build. Then there were massive nerfs to warpgate timing, voidrays, etc. This made it so that terran can do the 1-1-1 build without really having to worry about any pressure. They will always get a lot more money because of the mule as well, combined with the extremely strong marines compared to other basic units of protoss and things like cloak banshees, siege tanks and ravens this build destroys protoss and there's nothing they can do. First protoss would rush the terran and punish him but because of all those nerfs this is no longer possible.

On August 23 2011 23:56 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
I saw someone on DeMuslims stream a few days ago get really fast HTs and storms. The storms and feedback killed the most of the marines and banshees/raven. But he still won. Just saying this because it was pretty close

On August 24 2011 00:10 M2 wrote:


Thank you for the answer, however, to some extend I understand why the build is strong, my question was how come it was not strong in the past as it is now, but you somehow answered that many nerfs to the protoss did it. (if it is only this reason)

And DeMuslim is pretty good, maybe you Toss players have found something.

On August 24 2011 00:11 iCanada wrote:


And DeMuslim is pretty good, maybe you Toss players have found something.