Why 1/1/1 is considered to be imbalanced in Korea - Page 55

On August 22 2011 22:09 zatic wrote:
I wish people would at least call it 3/1/1. 1/1/1 is the stupidest name for a Starcraft build yet.

On August 22 2011 23:04 H0i wrote:

Concussive shells, force fields and fungal growth. Those make it extremely risky to do anything besides make your army a big ball and attack when it's 200/200.

On August 22 2011 06:03 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Something like this was a possibility ever since so many protoss players began to rely on 15nexus and 1gate expand. I've never understood the economic necessity of expanding so soon. 1gate robo and 1gate star (for phoenix) builds can yield economically sound mid games without sacrificing early game information. I don't think there is such an economic necessity. I think protoss players saw that they could get away with really early expansions and so they did it. Now it's back to being a coinflip like it ought to be. Rushing to gather information remains the most reliable way to get to mid game on even ground or to win outright against opponents not intending to enter mid game. Of course, this requires perfect use of the information, so it is a more difficult way to play until all the necessary knowledge has been discovered, at which point it makes all the things it counters absolutely obsolete. I imagine 1-1-1 is one such thing.

On August 22 2011 23:04 jinixxx123 wrote:



ahahahahahaahahah, first you want to tell me that i cant speak for the pros, but on the same token you want to speak for the pros on what they can and cannot do . Niceeeeee one. news flash = 4 zeals in a prisim, as u drop it off 3 stalkers to back it up via warp in. You can keep insulting me all you want, you cant prove it doesn't work either because you are not a pro.

On August 22 2011 23:04 jinixxx123 wrote:



ahahahahahaahahah, first you want to tell me that i cant speak for the pros, but on the same token you want to speak for the pros on what they can and cannot do . Niceeeeee one. news flash = 4 zeals in a prisim, as u drop it off 3 stalkers to back it up via warp in. You can keep insulting me all you want, you cant prove it doesn't work either because you are not a pro.

On August 22 2011 23:10 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
I (diamond toss) have been thinking all week about this build. At my level, I find it's actually pretty reasonable to hold with mass Zealots, four or six Stalkers and a few Immortals, getting a good flank and warping in stalkers as the fight goes on, but I can clearly see that this doesn't work well at the highest level of play.

What I've considered, and would be curious to hear back on from more talented players, is the idea of going 1-gate robo expand, then sending an army with the initial Observer with the goal of containing the Terran at their own ramp with forcefields if a 1-1-1 is scouted to delay the push until Medivacs can be produced. My gut feeling is that an Observer with a few Stalkers and all your Sentries could camp the ramp for a few minutes while more Stalkers and a second Obs stayed home to defend against Banshees. The delay would be enough to guarantee that Charge could be out before the attack hit, and you'd have a significantly larger Zealot force.

Now, the tactic of camping a Terran's ramp like this is nothing new, so I'm wondering if I'm not missing something obvious that makes this a bad tactic. I'm going to try fleshing this out a bit as soon as I can, but as I said, my level isn't enough for my own tests to really show whether it's a viable response. Any thoughts?

On August 22 2011 23:10 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
I (diamond toss) have been thinking all week about this build. At my level, I find it's actually pretty reasonable to hold with mass Zealots, four or six Stalkers and a few Immortals, getting a good flank and warping in stalkers as the fight goes on, but I can clearly see that this doesn't work well at the highest level of play.

What I've considered, and would be curious to hear back on from more talented players, is the idea of going 1-gate robo expand, then sending an army with the initial Observer with the goal of containing the Terran at their own ramp with forcefields if a 1-1-1 is scouted to delay the push until Medivacs can be produced. My gut feeling is that an Observer with a few Stalkers and all your Sentries could camp the ramp for a few minutes while more Stalkers and a second Obs stayed home to defend against Banshees. The delay would be enough to guarantee that Charge could be out before the attack hit, and you'd have a significantly larger Zealot force.

Now, the tactic of camping a Terran's ramp like this is nothing new, so I'm wondering if I'm not missing something obvious that makes this a bad tactic. I'm going to try fleshing this out a bit as soon as I can, but as I said, my level isn't enough for my own tests to really show whether it's a viable response. Any thoughts?

On August 22 2011 22:48 jinixxx123 wrote:



obviously i know when the timing is, i do this build, its around 9:30 to 10 minutes, but it can come even later than that depending on if stargate play.

and yes, warp prism aught to be tried, instead of blindly dismissing the unit as "rubbish"

On August 22 2011 23:22 wongfeihung wrote:

The moment that the Terran player finds out that the Protoss player isn't devoting 100% of his resources to defense, the Terran player will know that he can push through the Protoss' front with even less resistance, since the Terran player is devoting 100% of his resources to this all-in.

It's kind of like dropping 8 Marines into a Zerg base while there are 30+ banelings in front of your ramp/wall-off. It's only going to cause them to try and force their all-in down your throat even sooner.

The normal thought process in the case of harass vs all-in is immediately a "base trade," if you can even call it that. The Protoss player with the Warp Prism will only land up to 4-8 units inside the Terran's base. All the while, the Terran still has his entire army in front of the Protoss base. In short, Protoss harass vs Terran all-in - Terran wins (floating buildings, remember?).

On August 22 2011 23:27 CryingPoo wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
These are the three screen shots I wanted to added. 2 pylons, basic warp gate research, a gateway. Possible resource maintained without spending on anything at 8:00, 9:00, 9:30. Do the math before you TheoryCraft impossible.

On August 22 2011 23:12 H0i wrote:

Ok, so let's just assume you rush to a prism and land 4 zealots and warp in 3 stalkers in the opponents main against the "1-1-1" build.

First of all that is 975 minerals and 150 gas, compare that to an 8 marine drop which does a ton more damage and costs only 500/100.

Now, the warp prism arrives around the point where the push hits. You will have a minimal amount of units at home, the terran will roll over your natural and main. Without the prism attack that also would have happened, but now it happens even faster. Your prism hits, terran loses a few workers but moves them away fast, out of reach of your zealots. Meanwhile at home you lost all your army and nearly all your probes. The terran then goes home to clean up those zealots/stalkers and then continues mining. Protoss now has no army and terran has quite a big army, enough to go back and totally own you.

All that is assuming he doesn't just use 2 banshees and a few marines to clean up the drop.

See how this does not work?

On August 22 2011 23:29 Sea_Food wrote:


+ Not a fully saturated mineral line -.-

On August 22 2011 23:29 jinixxx123 wrote:


first of all,the ideas was for colosus to stall the push, secondly, warping in stalkers with the warp prism drop is not a requirement, so you can deduct that price from the drop. I said the stalkers only need to be warped in if the response to your zealots at his mineral line is a banshe. if the response to your zealots is a siege tank, thats alot of pushing power removed from the terran.

Again , you can keep theory crafting and trying to discredit it, this crying poo guy keeps asking me to post a replay, but how he expects me to i do not know, i dont play protoss i play terran and i havent seen protoss answer back with my suggestion , even though at my level of play i loose to basic blink stalkers when i do this build at times.

So instead of asking me to send me a replay , i ask you instead to send me a replay of a PRO protoss that has used the warp prism as a response, i bet you will find zero because it does not even occur to them it potentially can be useful.

On August 22 2011 23:29 jinixxx123 wrote:


first of all,the ideas was for colosus to stall the push, secondly, warping in stalkers with the warp prism drop is not a requirement, so you can deduct that price from the drop. I said the stalkers only need to be warped in if the response to your zealots at his mineral line is a banshe. if the response to your zealots is a siege tank, thats alot of pushing power removed from the terran.

Again , you can keep theory crafting and trying to discredit it, this crying poo guy keeps asking me to post a replay, but how he expects me to i do not know, i dont play protoss i play terran and i havent seen protoss answer back with my suggestion , even though at my level of play i loose to basic blink stalkers when i do this build at times.

So instead of asking me to send me a replay , i ask you instead to send me a replay of a PRO protoss that has used the warp prism as a response, i bet you will find zero because it does not even occur to them it potentially can be useful.