|
Can we stop talking about nerfing things please? - 9:10 KST |
On August 22 2011 09:28 bole wrote:
i didnt play for a while.... i played few days some games and today i faced 1-1-1... i builed some imortals... and it didnt work... i get eated by marines seige tanks and banshy wery easy...
only zealots stay a litle longer alive but all other unites died wery easy....
^
|
What all protoss face now.
|
On August 22 2011 09:04 ssregitoss wrote:one guy mention that someone in korea find a solid way to deal with 1-1-1.after i watched his replays i did not lost a game on ladder (i am high master) to 1-1-1.his build is collo.you will see in replays all the 1-1-1 variations.he never had a problem.i think artosis is right.he always said the way to deal with all ins require imblance collo  .ppl are tring imortals.even blizzard dont mention vs marines. here is the link http://www.playxp.com/sc2/gosureplays/view.php?article_id=3277407 just click on the sc2replay links on the page.
I skimmed the 1st 2 replays (will look at rest in a lil looks promising)
basically hes going 1 gate -robo-gate- obs scout- robo bay as soon as he scouts 1-1-1
in both games i saw he was able to get 3 collosi out in time for the push AND meet the army in the middle of the map. I think meeting the army in the map is key because u delay the push by forcing sieges or can even catch the army unseiged and just win. His unit comp is 3 collosi-1 immo- 4 stalkers then pure zealot. Once the engagement occurs he refills with pure stalker.
I can't read Korean so idn who this guy is or who he played (beside dreammvp who i believe is Code A)
So maybe this guy is onto something? Hopefully someone more skilled than me can at least look at the replays. It didnt appear to me that the terren made any huge blunders.
and of course the question of how this build stacks up against the possible range of terren builds is not answered (i assume the 2nd two replays are vs 1/1/1 as well)
|
On August 22 2011 09:25 kheldorin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 09:23 Gentso wrote:
Man this game has been out for a year. This is just another imbalance "FOTM". It'll be solved soon(ish). I haven't played in forever but it seems like Protoss might want to start opening with stargate for now. How is it FOTM when TSL Rain beat NSP Genius to get to the finals? And Jinro beat TTOne to win MLG? Protoss actually had the tools back then to counter it. Protoss already KNEW the counter. It was taken away from us due to nerfs.
It's FOTM because it's what everyone is doing right now. What nerfs are you referring to? Warpgate research time?
I feel like in a month or so nobody will consider this to be OP anymore.
|
On August 22 2011 09:24 Aookami wrote:
i think that a 30-40 sec delay on siege tech would fix this, allowing the protoss to get more units and not causing any disturb in the current state of the game (there are no builds that are countered by siege tech (like a 4gate is countered by immortals))
EDIT: typo
Gas steal as protoss on one terran geyser can usually delay by 20-40 seconds.
|
On August 22 2011 09:28 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 09:24 Aookami wrote:
i think that a 30-40 sec delay on siege tech would fix this, allowing the protoss to get more units and not causing any disturb in the current state of the game (there are no builds that are countered by siege tech (like a 4gate is countered by immortals))
EDIT: typo Seige tech timing counters baneling busts and fast stim timings.
Sim city + micro counters banelings busts and stim timings are in a mirror match up (and siege tech doesnt finish not even close to stim)
|
On August 22 2011 09:31 Gentso wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 09:25 kheldorin wrote:On August 22 2011 09:23 Gentso wrote:
Man this game has been out for a year. This is just another imbalance "FOTM". It'll be solved soon(ish). I haven't played in forever but it seems like Protoss might want to start opening with stargate for now. How is it FOTM when TSL Rain beat NSP Genius to get to the finals? And Jinro beat TTOne to win MLG? Protoss actually had the tools back then to counter it. Protoss already KNEW the counter. It was taken away from us due to nerfs. It's FOTM because it's what everyone is doing right now. What nerfs are you referring to? Warpgate research time? I feel like in a month or so nobody will consider this to be OP anymore.
That's what everybody said a month ago.
|
This is how I am currently dealing with 1-1-1.
Standard opening, If i scout that he does not wall off I will sent a chrono boosted zealot and probe into his main and get a free scout basically, from there I react accordingly If i scout that he has walled off I will skip the zealot and chronoboost stalker and pressure a bit, if I cannot scout an guranteed expansion, 2 Rax, 1 Rax FE, gasless expand, and etc I will add a robo for a quck observer (Quicker Robo then most builds) otherwise i will do 1 Gate FE.
Now, if I know for certain that it is going to be some sort of 1-1-1 All in or even some sort of Marine/Siege Tank, Banshees, and etc without marauders I react by adding a Twilight Council, 2 Gateways, Followed by a Robo and research Blink, from there I pressure with blink stalkers in his main using my observer for vision, if you can snipe a few of his tech labs and get out then you will have bought yourself tons of time. In the case that I had to add a Robo because I was uncertain of what I saw i will most likely go 1 Base Colossi if I scout 1-1-1 with my observer and even Blink stalkers if I can get a good timing in and still be able to do adequate harassment to make him afraid of moving out.
With the blink play you can drastically slow down his push and pump some Immortals off 1 base to deal with the tanks, its important to note as he moves out on the map that you are picking off little chunks of his army as you will. Some maps are obvisouly more optimal for this type of play and generally I feel it is best on bigger maps like Tal Darim. The only thing you have to watch out for is PDD, make him try and waste PDD before you ever engage or if you can snipe his raven as he moves out try and do so. Depending on how much damage you do during this small opportunity of harassment within his main you can decide whether or not its safe to expo. Mix in a few sentries for forcefields/Guardian Shield for the big engagement later on.
The 1 base colossi response is pretty self explanitory Imo, if you can engae him a good arc before he reaches your ramp then absolutely do so, its important to try and not let him get bunkers in your natural to set up a contain if you can do so. Generally if you played it out right you should come out ahead and be able to bully the terran a bit afterwards and take your natural.
Alot of people will say that you will be to far behind if he ends up not doing some sort of all in and is simply expanding, although you'll be behind economically you'll still have a tech advantage, unit advantage with 1 Gate Robo and a fairly slower Nexus, When scouting with an observer if you can find his weakness in his build and expose said weakness with your tech edge then do so.(Forcefield contain, Warp Prism harass, Simple frontal attack pressure to force bunkers, and etc.)
I really think the only time these quick expand builds should be used is when you can scout the terrans main with a zealot or some sort of agression and be certain of no 3 Rax, 1-1-1, and etc. Blindly doing 1 Gate FE and hoping you can hold an all in is really silly, if your going to fast expand against all ins you might as well Nexus first as you will have a better chance. 1 Gate Robo is a really good build and people should use it more imo, you can expand with it early and cancel the Nexus if you scout something your unsure of being able to hold.
At the end of the day people need to realize that expanding against 1-1-1 is dumb, some situations yield expands to be optimal against it but most of the time its not a good idea. People have to remember that the terran is blindly going 1-1-1 and not reacting to what you do, with 1 Base you can just react to his unit composition and counter it and come out ahead with a unit advantage, sure he has mules but if you play everything out right you should be able to come out on top in the engagement and later use your unit composition/number to take an expansion and deny him his own.
Basically if you want a guranteed defence against this build you have to accept that the game will transition most of the time and that you will not always be drastically ahead in said transition
Play safe and stop crying when you blindly expand and lose to a build designed to punish this, there is no reason to try and fast expand if your unsure of what hes doing. This style is used by alot of good Protoss users such as Tyler, Sage, Artosis (Hehe), Genius (Depending on the day x.x), Puzzle, and etc.
|
A big factor I think with the 1-1-1 is the fact that the terran can fail and still have mules to fall back on. If they made mules take 1 or 2 supply, that would I think balance a lot of things.
|
On August 22 2011 09:34 Jinivus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 09:31 Gentso wrote:On August 22 2011 09:25 kheldorin wrote:On August 22 2011 09:23 Gentso wrote:
Man this game has been out for a year. This is just another imbalance "FOTM". It'll be solved soon(ish). I haven't played in forever but it seems like Protoss might want to start opening with stargate for now. How is it FOTM when TSL Rain beat NSP Genius to get to the finals? And Jinro beat TTOne to win MLG? Protoss actually had the tools back then to counter it. Protoss already KNEW the counter. It was taken away from us due to nerfs. It's FOTM because it's what everyone is doing right now. What nerfs are you referring to? Warpgate research time? I feel like in a month or so nobody will consider this to be OP anymore. That's what everybody said a month ago.
Maybe it'll take more than a month. It took months after the patch for zerg to learn how to use infestors to win against Protoss.
|
On August 22 2011 09:31 Gentso wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 09:25 kheldorin wrote:On August 22 2011 09:23 Gentso wrote:
Man this game has been out for a year. This is just another imbalance "FOTM". It'll be solved soon(ish). I haven't played in forever but it seems like Protoss might want to start opening with stargate for now. How is it FOTM when TSL Rain beat NSP Genius to get to the finals? And Jinro beat TTOne to win MLG? Protoss actually had the tools back then to counter it. Protoss already KNEW the counter. It was taken away from us due to nerfs. It's FOTM because it's what everyone is doing right now. What nerfs are you referring to? Warpgate research time? I feel like in a month or so nobody will consider this to be OP anymore.
FOTM means it was something recent and temporary when in fact, this strategy has been used before. It stopped being used because it was vulnerable to 3-gate voidray or even 4-gate. Both have been nerfed. No other race can open with all 3 tech trees, be safe and still be effective. Even in early SC2, Day9 commented on his daily how strange this concept was when compared to BW.
|
1/1/1 is imbalance simple as that.
|
On August 22 2011 09:36 Astro-Penguin wrote:
This is how I am currently dealing with 1-1-1.
Standard opening, If i scout that he does not wall off I will sent a chrono boosted zealot and probe into his main and get a free scout basically, from there I react accordingly If i scout that he has walled off I will skip the zealot and chronoboost stalker and pressure a bit, if I cannot scout an guranteed expansion, 2 Rax, 1 Rax FE, gasless expand, and etc I will add a robo for a quck observer (Quicker Robo then most builds) otherwise i will do 1 Gate FE.
Now, if I know for certain that it is going to be some sort of 1-1-1 All in or even some sort of Marine/Siege Tank, Banshees, and etc without marauders I react by adding a Twilight Council, 2 Gateways, Followed by a Robo and research Blink, from there I pressure with blink stalkers in his main using my observer for vision, if you can snipe a few of his tech labs and get out then you will have bought yourself tons of time. In the case that I had to add a Robo because I was uncertain of what I saw i will most likely go 1 Base Colossi if I scout 1-1-1 with my observer and even Blink stalkers if I can get a good timing in and still be able to do adequate harassment to make him afraid of moving out.
With the blink play you can drastically slow down his push and pump some Immortals off 1 base to deal with the tanks, its important to note as he moves out on the map that you are picking off little chunks of his army as you will. Some maps are obvisouly more optimal for this type of play and generally I feel it is best on bigger maps like Tal Darim. The only thing you have to watch out for is PDD, make him try and waste PDD before you ever engage or if you can snipe his raven as he moves out try and do so. Depending on how much damage you do during this small opportunity of harassment within his main you can decide whether or not its safe to expo. Mix in a few sentries for forcefields/Guardian Shield for the big engagement later on.
The 1 base colossi response is pretty self explanitory Imo, if you can engae him a good arc before he reaches your ramp then absolutely do so, its important to try and not let him get bunkers in your natural to set up a contain if you can do so. Generally if you played it out right you should come out ahead and be able to bully the terran a bit afterwards and take your natural.
Alot of people will say that you will be to far behind if he ends up not doing some sort of all in and is simply expanding, although you'll be behind economically you'll still have a tech advantage, unit advantage with 1 Gate Robo and a fairly slower Nexus, When scouting with an observer if you can find his weakness in his build and expose said weakness with your tech edge then do so.(Forcefield contain, Warp Prism harass, Simple frontal attack pressure to force bunkers, and etc.)
I really think the only time these quick expand builds should be used is when you can scout the terrans main with a zealot or some sort of agression and be certain of no 3 Rax, 1-1-1, and etc. Blindly doing 1 Gate FE and hoping you can hold an all in is really silly, if your going to fast expand against all ins you might as well Nexus first as you will have a better chance. 1 Gate Robo is a really good build and people should use it more imo, you can expand with it early and cancel the Nexus if you scout something your unsure of being able to hold.
At the end of the day people need to realize that expanding against 1-1-1 is dumb, some situations yield expands to be optimal against it but most of the time its not a good idea. People have to remember that the terran is blindly going 1-1-1 and not reacting to what you do, with 1 Base you can just react to his unit composition and counter it and come out ahead with a unit advantage, sure he has mules but if you play everything out right you should be able to come out on top in the engagement and later use your unit composition/number to take an expansion and deny him his own.
Basically if you want a guranteed defence against this build you have to accept that the game will transition most of the time and that you will not always be drastically ahead in said transition
Play safe and stop crying when you blindly expand and lose to a build designed to punish this, there is no reason to try and fast expand if your unsure of what hes doing. This style is used by alot of good Protoss users such as Tyler, Sage, Artosis (Hehe), Genius (Depending on the day x.x), Puzzle, and etc.
Can you post the replays or the videos of these matches please and who their opponets are?
|
But I like this build 
I do agree though, it's a bit ridiculous.
|
Ive always followed artosis advice and rushed colo when i scout 1-1-1, it works well for the first push, however i tend to have difficulty dealing with the follow up pushes because I am usually left with very few units besides my colossus and a main that is drying up (i don't expand until after i break it) expanding + trying to get up enough units to defend the second wave has proven futile for me (albiet at ~15-20 diamond).
What i gathered from the replays posted above
-cut probes after first colossus out.
-Just go kill him right after defeating his push.
Gonna be trying this from now on.
|
On August 22 2011 09:43 kheldorin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 09:31 Gentso wrote:On August 22 2011 09:25 kheldorin wrote:On August 22 2011 09:23 Gentso wrote:
Man this game has been out for a year. This is just another imbalance "FOTM". It'll be solved soon(ish). I haven't played in forever but it seems like Protoss might want to start opening with stargate for now. How is it FOTM when TSL Rain beat NSP Genius to get to the finals? And Jinro beat TTOne to win MLG? Protoss actually had the tools back then to counter it. Protoss already KNEW the counter. It was taken away from us due to nerfs. It's FOTM because it's what everyone is doing right now. What nerfs are you referring to? Warpgate research time? I feel like in a month or so nobody will consider this to be OP anymore. FOTM means it was something recent and temporary when in fact, this strategy has been used before. It stopped being used because it was vulnerable to 3-gate voidray or even 4-gate. Both have been nerfed. No other race can open with all 3 tech trees, be safe and still be effective. Even in early SC2, Day9 commented on his daily how strange this concept was when compared to BW.
The world flavor in that acronym is why I call it FOTM. The fact that it's popular right now is why it's FOTM. If it's been around so long why is it suddenly OP? People think so because Terran players have gotten better. Just wait, Protoss will learn to defeat it...
|
On August 22 2011 06:08 Lordwar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 05:49 CryingPoo wrote:
with Terran's 24 workers - they get 840/240 per a minute while Protoss gets 680/240 No, terran mines with 24 worker as much minerals and gas as protoss.
Except mules will increase mineral income up to 840/minute
|
On August 22 2011 09:49 Gentso wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 09:43 kheldorin wrote:On August 22 2011 09:31 Gentso wrote:On August 22 2011 09:25 kheldorin wrote:On August 22 2011 09:23 Gentso wrote:
Man this game has been out for a year. This is just another imbalance "FOTM". It'll be solved soon(ish). I haven't played in forever but it seems like Protoss might want to start opening with stargate for now. How is it FOTM when TSL Rain beat NSP Genius to get to the finals? And Jinro beat TTOne to win MLG? Protoss actually had the tools back then to counter it. Protoss already KNEW the counter. It was taken away from us due to nerfs. It's FOTM because it's what everyone is doing right now. What nerfs are you referring to? Warpgate research time? I feel like in a month or so nobody will consider this to be OP anymore. FOTM means it was something recent and temporary when in fact, this strategy has been used before. It stopped being used because it was vulnerable to 3-gate voidray or even 4-gate. Both have been nerfed. No other race can open with all 3 tech trees, be safe and still be effective. Even in early SC2, Day9 commented on his daily how strange this concept was when compared to BW. The world flavor in that acronym is why I call it FOTM. The fact that it's popular right now is why it's FOTM. If it's been around so long why is it suddenly OP? People think so because Terran players have gotten better. Just wait, Protoss will learn to defeat it...
I'm sure some people said the same about 5 rax reaper. I'd wager 1/1/1 boasts similar or greater winrates.
|
spoilered due to length
+ Show Spoiler +On August 22 2011 09:36 Astro-Penguin wrote:
This is how I am currently dealing with 1-1-1.
Standard opening, If i scout that he does not wall off I will sent a chrono boosted zealot and probe into his main and get a free scout basically, from there I react accordingly If i scout that he has walled off I will skip the zealot and chronoboost stalker and pressure a bit, if I cannot scout an guranteed expansion, 2 Rax, 1 Rax FE, gasless expand, and etc I will add a robo for a quck observer (Quicker Robo then most builds) otherwise i will do 1 Gate FE.
Now, if I know for certain that it is going to be some sort of 1-1-1 All in or even some sort of Marine/Siege Tank, Banshees, and etc without marauders I react by adding a Twilight Council, 2 Gateways, Followed by a Robo and research Blink, from there I pressure with blink stalkers in his main using my observer for vision, if you can snipe a few of his tech labs and get out then you will have bought yourself tons of time. In the case that I had to add a Robo because I was uncertain of what I saw i will most likely go 1 Base Colossi if I scout 1-1-1 with my observer and even Blink stalkers if I can get a good timing in and still be able to do adequate harassment to make him afraid of moving out.
With the blink play you can drastically slow down his push and pump some Immortals off 1 base to deal with the tanks, its important to note as he moves out on the map that you are picking off little chunks of his army as you will. Some maps are obvisouly more optimal for this type of play and generally I feel it is best on bigger maps like Tal Darim. The only thing you have to watch out for is PDD, make him try and waste PDD before you ever engage or if you can snipe his raven as he moves out try and do so. Depending on how much damage you do during this small opportunity of harassment within his main you can decide whether or not its safe to expo. Mix in a few sentries for forcefields/Guardian Shield for the big engagement later on.
The 1 base colossi response is pretty self explanitory Imo, if you can engae him a good arc before he reaches your ramp then absolutely do so, its important to try and not let him get bunkers in your natural to set up a contain if you can do so. Generally if you played it out right you should come out ahead and be able to bully the terran a bit afterwards and take your natural.
Alot of people will say that you will be to far behind if he ends up not doing some sort of all in and is simply expanding, although you'll be behind economically you'll still have a tech advantage, unit advantage with 1 Gate Robo and a fairly slower Nexus, When scouting with an observer if you can find his weakness in his build and expose said weakness with your tech edge then do so.(Forcefield contain, Warp Prism harass, Simple frontal attack pressure to force bunkers, and etc.)
I really think the only time these quick expand builds should be used is when you can scout the terrans main with a zealot or some sort of agression and be certain of no 3 Rax, 1-1-1, and etc. Blindly doing 1 Gate FE and hoping you can hold an all in is really silly, if your going to fast expand against all ins you might as well Nexus first as you will have a better chance. 1 Gate Robo is a really good build and people should use it more imo, you can expand with it early and cancel the Nexus if you scout something your unsure of being able to hold.
At the end of the day people need to realize that expanding against 1-1-1 is dumb, some situations yield expands to be optimal against it but most of the time its not a good idea. People have to remember that the terran is blindly going 1-1-1 and not reacting to what you do, with 1 Base you can just react to his unit composition and counter it and come out ahead with a unit advantage, sure he has mules but if you play everything out right you should be able to come out on top in the engagement and later use your unit composition/number to take an expansion and deny him his own.
Basically if you want a guranteed defence against this build you have to accept that the game will transition most of the time and that you will not always be drastically ahead in said transition
Play safe and stop crying when you blindly expand and lose to a build designed to punish this, there is no reason to try and fast expand if your unsure of what hes doing. This style is used by alot of good Protoss users such as Tyler, Sage, Artosis (Hehe), Genius (Depending on the day x.x), Puzzle, and etc.
Here's the thing. Expanding gives you a shot at holding the push, even though in most cases you have to sacrifice the nexus, you are still in a good situation. If you continue to one base while terran is one basing
1. He has map control via banshees. He'll know if you put down a nexus, proceed to push and roll you.
2. You both mine out main. He lifts to nat, you long distance mine for a nexus, he pushes in 2 minutes and you die anyways.
3. Yes you can play like Tyler does every game and go gaterobogate nexus. Then when your observer gets to their base and you see it was a reactored-marine into expo, the other guy has had his base up for 2 minutes longer than you. Yes you have good scouting info, but you are also playing from behind and need to outplay the opponent to win. Extremely good build if you feel your opponent is inferior, but this isn't the case.
4. Terran is playing safe simply by building a bunker. They can hold EVERY protoss all-in off a 1/1/1, This build gives them an advantage such that even if they don't allin a one-basing protoss, they have 2 techlabs, a reactor, and all 3 production buildings and can transition to everything after throwing down a CC. The equivalent protoss would be having a robo, and either a TC or stargate such that WHILE being 100% safe from any allin, maintaining the ability to punish every expo attempt after obs gets out AND being able to transition into a macro game at even or better.
|
On August 22 2011 09:52 Jinivus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 09:49 Gentso wrote:On August 22 2011 09:43 kheldorin wrote:On August 22 2011 09:31 Gentso wrote:On August 22 2011 09:25 kheldorin wrote:On August 22 2011 09:23 Gentso wrote:
Man this game has been out for a year. This is just another imbalance "FOTM". It'll be solved soon(ish). I haven't played in forever but it seems like Protoss might want to start opening with stargate for now. How is it FOTM when TSL Rain beat NSP Genius to get to the finals? And Jinro beat TTOne to win MLG? Protoss actually had the tools back then to counter it. Protoss already KNEW the counter. It was taken away from us due to nerfs. It's FOTM because it's what everyone is doing right now. What nerfs are you referring to? Warpgate research time? I feel like in a month or so nobody will consider this to be OP anymore. FOTM means it was something recent and temporary when in fact, this strategy has been used before. It stopped being used because it was vulnerable to 3-gate voidray or even 4-gate. Both have been nerfed. No other race can open with all 3 tech trees, be safe and still be effective. Even in early SC2, Day9 commented on his daily how strange this concept was when compared to BW. The world flavor in that acronym is why I call it FOTM. The fact that it's popular right now is why it's FOTM. If it's been around so long why is it suddenly OP? People think so because Terran players have gotten better. Just wait, Protoss will learn to defeat it... I'm sure some people said the same about 5 rax reaper. I'd wager 1/1/1 boasts similar or greater winrates.
No, 5 rax reaper was a much different situation. Virtually everyone agreed it was imbalanced and it was patched quite quickly.
|
On August 22 2011 09:56 Gentso wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 09:52 Jinivus wrote:On August 22 2011 09:49 Gentso wrote:On August 22 2011 09:43 kheldorin wrote:On August 22 2011 09:31 Gentso wrote:On August 22 2011 09:25 kheldorin wrote:On August 22 2011 09:23 Gentso wrote:
Man this game has been out for a year. This is just another imbalance "FOTM". It'll be solved soon(ish). I haven't played in forever but it seems like Protoss might want to start opening with stargate for now. How is it FOTM when TSL Rain beat NSP Genius to get to the finals? And Jinro beat TTOne to win MLG? Protoss actually had the tools back then to counter it. Protoss already KNEW the counter. It was taken away from us due to nerfs. It's FOTM because it's what everyone is doing right now. What nerfs are you referring to? Warpgate research time? I feel like in a month or so nobody will consider this to be OP anymore. FOTM means it was something recent and temporary when in fact, this strategy has been used before. It stopped being used because it was vulnerable to 3-gate voidray or even 4-gate. Both have been nerfed. No other race can open with all 3 tech trees, be safe and still be effective. Even in early SC2, Day9 commented on his daily how strange this concept was when compared to BW. The world flavor in that acronym is why I call it FOTM. The fact that it's popular right now is why it's FOTM. If it's been around so long why is it suddenly OP? People think so because Terran players have gotten better. Just wait, Protoss will learn to defeat it... I'm sure some people said the same about 5 rax reaper. I'd wager 1/1/1 boasts similar or greater winrates. No, 5 rax reaper was a much different situation. Virtually everyone agreed it was imbalanced and it was patched quite quickly.
Virtually everyone agrees in Korea that it's imbalanced, and a large percent think protoss is UP. It's not different. It boasts insanely high winrates, and is incredibly difficult to stop even when scouted.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
