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Can we stop talking about nerfing things please? - 9:10 KST | ||
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PPTouch
99 Posts
On August 22 2011 09:12 Heavenly wrote: I think stealing the gas forces one more marine before the reactor or something, doesn't really matter that much. Maybe not by much, but something is better than nothing | ||
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MenSol[ZerO]
Canada1134 Posts
On August 22 2011 09:12 PPTouch wrote: Maybe not by much, but something is better than nothing slower tanks and starport as well | ||
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HaruRH
Singapore2780 Posts
On August 22 2011 09:08 Jinivus wrote: When I say considered OP I don't mean by a random bronze guy on the strategy forum. I mean strats like 5 rax reaper and deathball that were generally accepted to be insanely abusive and needing of tweaks. And I hope you realize 1/1/1 is also as abusive. Terrans can wall in and toss will never find out what Terran is doing. By the time an obs get in, ravens and Marines will knock onto toss's door with some tea. Show me replays of people winning 1/1/1 on progamer level. I can show you 10x~20x replays of people losing to 1/1/1. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10383 Posts
On August 22 2011 08:53 Markwerf wrote: I think the fundamental problem here is just that terran can't be scouted easily (they can hide their tech builds or whatever quite easily). That combined with the fact the orbital can fly makes T really strong when they force the game into a 1 base vs 1 base situation. I suspect one of these two changes will be coming up fairly soon: - orbital commands can't lift anymore. Makes the dreaded inbase expansion easier to scout as they have to float out earlier and nerfs the 1 basing somewhat. - marine health down to 40, combat shields gives them 55. I probably expect the latter change to be it, marine based pressure maps has been too strong on small maps basically for the entire game and a simple nerf to the unupgraded marine will fix this. In return they could even buff the research time for combat shield a little bit if neccesary imo. On big maps this change should hardly matter anyway. These are actually good ideas. Expanding in base with a OC is something Terran doesn't "need" and they can still make SCVs. The marine thing would help, and would make marine pressure early on not as strong (u couldnt animation cancel marines back in BW). But even so, zerg is different too, it seems 2 rax in TvZ is fine, so if they were to make that weaker (less marine hp) then yes i can see a combat shield buff work or basically blizz would be able to find an easy way to compensate. | ||
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TedJustice
Canada1324 Posts
I don't have much to contribute to the discussion other than that, I just thought I'd put it out there. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On August 22 2011 09:11 MenSol[ZerO] wrote: so you want protoss to be able to fast expo, scout everything and be safe to all terran allins? lol That is what I'm saying, nothing like this will ever exist. To beat 1-1-1 you need an early expand with enough scouting to prepare for it but the current options (1gate Robo/ 1gate Expo) are super vulnerable to other Terran timings which rape a early expand. Which is what the OP is getting at with Gisado saying this build is too strong. Hence why if someone as amazing as IMMVP says this build is too strong then it might just get nerfed instead of Protoss being buffed to expand easier | ||
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magnaflow
Canada1521 Posts
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kheldorin
Singapore539 Posts
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
Not even the pros have any clue about it (let alone anyone here). | ||
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
We provide informations, they come up with solutions. | ||
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magnaflow
Canada1521 Posts
On August 22 2011 09:20 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Imbalance changes every month. But nobody ever learns. Seems like every 2 weeks, I though it was BFH that were still OP | ||
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Gentso
United States2218 Posts
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
On August 22 2011 09:11 MenSol[ZerO] wrote: so you want protoss to be able to fast expo, scout everything and be safe to all terran allins? lol except what does terran scout when they decide to 1/1/1 all in? Don't worry I'll wait... This game should be about scouting and adapting and when BOTH players are doing so it can lead to mind games, innovative strategies, and close games. Terrans can decide pre-game theyre going to 1/1/1 and have an absurd success rate. If scouted, still near impossible to hold. The 1/1/1 is not a reactive build at all. Its a precise and well timed build that is designed to beat 90% of all protoss builds. Who wouldnt roll the dice with those odds? | ||
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Aookami
Brazil64 Posts
EDIT: typo | ||
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kheldorin
Singapore539 Posts
On August 22 2011 09:23 Gentso wrote: Man this game has been out for a year. This is just another imbalance "FOTM". It'll be solved soon(ish). I haven't played in forever but it seems like Protoss might want to start opening with stargate for now. How is it FOTM when TSL Rain beat NSP Genius to get to the finals? And Jinro beat TTOne to win MLG? Protoss actually had the tools back then to counter it. Protoss already KNEW the counter. It was taken away from us due to nerfs. | ||
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MattsEffect
United States15 Posts
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HaruRH
Singapore2780 Posts
On August 22 2011 09:23 Jayrod wrote: except what does terran scout when they decide to 1/1/1 all in? Don't worry I'll wait... This game should be about scouting and adapting and when BOTH players are doing so it can lead to mind games, innovative strategies, and close games. Terrans can decide pre-game theyre going to 1/1/1 and have an absurd success rate. If scouted, still near impossible to hold. The 1/1/1 is not a reactive build at all. Its a precise and well timed build that is designed to beat 90% of all protoss builds. Who wouldnt roll the dice with those odds? And to add on to what jayrod said, even if toss figures out a strat to beat 1/1/1, terrans can switch tech with ease and still all in. | ||
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kyarisan
United States347 Posts
On August 22 2011 09:02 monitor wrote: I think one major factor people aren't considering is maps- they can fix imbalances. For example, if we were to take away 1-2 mineral patches (reduce from 8 to 7 or 6) in the main, then 1base would be less effective because you couldn't get as much income when saturated. I think it would be equally problematic since a greater percentage of a 1-base income is coming from MULE's which ignore worker saturation levels. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On August 22 2011 09:24 Aookami wrote: i think that a 30-40 sec delay on siege tech would fix this, allowing the protoss to get more units and not causing any disturb in the current state of the game (there are no builds that are countered by siege tech (like a 4gate is countered by immortals)) EDIT: typo Seige tech timing counters baneling busts and fast stim timings. | ||
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bole
Serbia164 Posts
only zealots stay a litle longer alive but all other unites died wery easy.... | ||
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EPT
