Why 1/1/1 is considered to be imbalanced in Korea - Page 26

On August 22 2011 08:49 Techno wrote:

I wonder why people seem to be ignoring this post.

On August 22 2011 08:55 JackDanger wrote:


Because he's waxing philosophical and not even hinting at a proper response?

On August 22 2011 08:50 Jinivus wrote:

Semantics. His point was that all the builds or "strategies" considered op were figured out. They weren't most were nerfed.

On August 22 2011 08:56 drgonzhere wrote:
I'd like to point everyone to naniwa v thorzain game 1 in which naniwa held off the attack resulting in a fairly close game. Or artosis.tv where he crushes the attack with ease. One base colossus beats it, IF you dont allow them to get bunkers up

On August 22 2011 08:53 Markwerf wrote:
I think the fundamental problem here is just that terran can't be scouted easily (they can hide their tech builds or whatever quite easily). That combined with the fact the orbital can fly makes T really strong when they force the game into a 1 base vs 1 base situation.

I suspect one of these two changes will be coming up fairly soon:
- orbital commands can't lift anymore. Makes the dreaded inbase expansion easier to scout as they have to float out earlier and nerfs the 1 basing somewhat.
- marine health down to 40, combat shields gives them 55.

I probably expect the latter change to be it, marine based pressure maps has been too strong on small maps basically for the entire game and a simple nerf to the unupgraded marine will fix this. In return they could even buff the research time for combat shield a little bit if neccesary imo. On big maps this change should hardly matter anyway.

On August 22 2011 08:48 legaton wrote:
The 1-1-1 build is basically the same thing that the tasteless build from beta, an one base siege tank/marine/banshee/raven all-in. It was a strong strategy in beta, but it was equilibrated by the fact it was extremely risky for terrans, as it could be countered by a 4gate or a 3gate/Stargate. Those two build orders were deadly against a 1-1-1 because the terran player had little to no units early, because he was building 3 buildings at the same time. Therefore, most terrans preferred to a more conservative style, to defend against early VR harrass or a 4gate push.

Both the 4gate (zealot timing, Warpgate tech) and the voidray were nerfed. Therefore, those openings don't work anymore as you don't have that early timing against a terran that's teching. Now, it has become a risk free B.O. for terran players in close positions.

The real problems is that you can't "buff" protoss again because it would put that race on an even foot with terran, but zerg would get raped as they have zero harass options in the early game (except for one base baneling, and that's really bad).

Sadly, i think the game is just fucked because they created a beatiful race that i love to play, terran, but never developed protoss and zerg enough.

Now, i believe the only solution would be a new protoss unit, and that unit is the reaver. Protoss needs a high risk/high damage unit that can be used to break contains. It is also good as a fast reaver could be used to harass and it would be a good opening anyways. On the other hand, it is risky enough as reavers required tons and tons of micro and babysitting, and if you killed the shuttle, it was dead in seconds. Of course, they should bring back the stupid AI as an intelligent reaver scarab would be just too powerful. Bring back the Broodwar reaver (and erase the Colossus, it sucks anyway).

On August 22 2011 08:56 drgonzhere wrote:
I'd like to point everyone to naniwa v thorzain game 1 in which naniwa held off the attack resulting in a fairly close game. Or artosis.tv where he crushes the attack with ease. One base colossus beats it, IF you dont allow them to get bunkers up

On August 22 2011 08:57 NovaTheFeared wrote:


If you read his quote he gave two proper responses.

On August 22 2011 08:32 Razuik wrote:

Let me put this simply

MvP-Stated he does not do the build because it discredits his wins.
Tyler-Plays protoss in a metagame that has terrans doing 1-1-1 every other game.

Tyler obviously has much more experience with it.

On August 22 2011 09:01 Dommk wrote:

Artosis held of a completely different build

Naniwa couldn't even break his ramp without sacrificing virtually every probe. Thorzain managed to get his expand and hold off Nanis desperation attack with ease in that game :X

On August 22 2011 09:01 aksfjh wrote:


Really? Most were nerfed? I guess I missed the patch where 6 gate, infestor/broodlord, 2 medivac MM, 2 port banshee, 3 gate DTs, 1 base colossus, baneling bust (both eco and 1 base), 1 rax FE into 3 tank timing, BFH marine+medi elevator, double forge mass gateway, 3 gate stargate, 4 gate, 3 rax, 7 roach rush, 6 pool, 2 rax, 2 gate, 15 hatch, forge FE, burrowed roach timing, 3 base protoss deathball, and many more, were all nerfed simultaneously to the point they could be countered finally. Unless, of course, pros (and regular joes) found ways to counter these builds/strategies without nerfs. But what's the chance of that? You, the almighty Jinivus, with the wit and skill of 10,000 Koreans just KNOWS that these builds were impossible to beat without nerfs.

On August 22 2011 08:55 Dommk wrote:
*shrugs*

If someone as good as IMMVP consideres this build imbalanced then I'm sure it will get nerfed.

Unless someone actually comes up wit ha ridiculous build order for Protoss that allows them to scout and get an early expansion whilst being safe to other Terran all-ins...if that ever happens PM me because that sounds too fucking good to be true