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Puzzle to Slayers! - Page 20

Forum Index > SC2 General
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RoyGBiv_13
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1275 Posts
September 02 2011 17:55 GMT
#381
Sad to see Zenex lose a key player to an already strong team.
But ohhhh man, hes gunna get sooo good at pvt pretty soon
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
Brainling
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States660 Posts
September 02 2011 17:56 GMT
#382
On September 03 2011 02:52 Jibba wrote:
The NFL has salary caps and tampering rules. It's an entirely different, incomparable situation and your analogy, quite frankly, sucks.

Anyways, awesome news for Slayers. Sad for ZeNEX but FXOBoSs already broke the news about their collapse a while ago.


Baseball doesn't have a salary cap, and it operates the same way. Basketball has soft caps. Soccer has soft caps, what's your point? The point is, players move around. They go where the money is. A team has a responsibility to make their team better. Period.

Just because there isn't enough money changing hands (yet) to need salary caps and agents and all that crap, doesn't mean the situations are different. It simply means the big ticket sports are at a level we aren't yet, but that doesn't mean we don't have to accept the business of things to get there.

Again, you can't have it both ways. Either you want this to be a true professional sport, or you don't, and you want to continue to enforce this strange internet Bushido code of honor on the teams.
"The welfare of each of us is dependent fundamentally upon the welfare of all of us." - Theodore Roosevelt
TheBamf
Profile Joined June 2011
Denmark366 Posts
September 02 2011 17:57 GMT
#383
Very good move by SlayerS : )
IM.Nestea | IM.MvP | MvP.DongRaeGu. | Genius | ST.Parting I SlayerS.MMA
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
September 02 2011 17:58 GMT
#384
People hating on this move need to stay far, far away from the Chinese eSports scene, lest they have an aneurysm. I swear that those players change teams every week. It's a bit chaotic, especially in the DotA department.
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
September 02 2011 17:59 GMT
#385
SlayerS is finally getting great players that aren't Terran! Alicia is good, but they needed more than just him.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-02 18:13:46
September 02 2011 18:11 GMT
#386
On September 03 2011 02:56 Brainling wrote:
Again, you can't have it both ways. Either you want this to be a true professional sport, or you don't, and you want to continue to enforce this strange internet Bushido code of honor on the teams.

Tampering and free agency rules exist within all major sports leagues.

It's really not applicable to this situations anyways. Like Milkis said, it's nothing like the EG situations.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
wolfe
Profile Joined March 2010
United States761 Posts
September 02 2011 19:12 GMT
#387
SlayerS is looking to be a dominant force... super excited. Stacked and well-balanced, though as a Terran player I'm viewing this as additional training partners to strengthen their T lineup haha!
Swift as the wind, felt before noticed.
rareh
Profile Joined May 2011
Portugal298 Posts
September 02 2011 19:25 GMT
#388
On September 03 2011 03:11 Jibba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2011 02:56 Brainling wrote:
Again, you can't have it both ways. Either you want this to be a true professional sport, or you don't, and you want to continue to enforce this strange internet Bushido code of honor on the teams.

Tampering and free agency rules exist within all major sports leagues.

It's really not applicable to this situations anyways. Like Milkis said, it's nothing like the EG situations.


Totally agree, this is much worse then the EG thing.

User was warned for this post
Zeroxk
Profile Joined October 2010
Norway1244 Posts
September 02 2011 19:32 GMT
#389
On September 03 2011 02:36 rareh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 21:03 karpo wrote:
On September 02 2011 20:58 marttorn wrote:
On September 02 2011 20:52 karpo wrote:
On September 02 2011 20:35 rareh wrote:
On September 02 2011 20:10 HolyArrow wrote:
On September 02 2011 20:04 rareh wrote:
On September 02 2011 19:58 HolyArrow wrote:
On September 02 2011 19:55 rareh wrote:
On September 02 2011 19:51 HolyArrow wrote:
[quote]

This is where we have philosophical differences. I just strongly disagree with the concept of a weak team "buying" their good players instead of nurturing them. I don't like it at all - it just seems kind of cheap to me. On the other hand, I am completely okay with a strong team that nurtured their own players adding more strong players to their roster - they did their part in nurturing their players, and now it's totally acceptable that other players see that team and want to be part of it. I guess the bottom line here is whether or not a team is strong by nurture rather than buying good players. It's the main factor for me, personally. Obviously, this is merely my opinion, and it's not backed by any sort of ethical or moral argument.


They are nurturing their players, in fact puma is teaching a lot to demuslim and huk to incontrol.
Look at how much better demuslim has got in just 1 week!

Point is if slayers buy all the good players then we will be getting a team that wins every time and it will make the scene a boring monopoly.
Imagine if Flash, jaedong, bisu etc were all in the same team.


Sure, they're now nurturing their players, by using the players that they bought. That doesn't supersede the fact that they had to buy good players for that to even happen, which is, to me, still a huge minus.

The point about SlayerS buying all good players and creating a boring monopoly is moot because... that's not really what's happening. When SlayerS recruits MC, MVP, and Nestea, then you'll have an argument.


not really since if you look at TLPD they already have the n1 protoss Puzzle.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players

Also to get he best players they have to be willing to leave i doubt nestea and mvp would...


You're using ELO as your measurement. That doesn't really work. Do you also believe Polt to be > MVP, Naya and Life > July and Leenock, cOre > HongUn and HuK, and Gumiho > MMA? MC is still the top Protoss as the only Protoss to win a GSL (let alone twice). ELO has its uses, but it, like any other ranking system, it has its flaws.

With that said, you seem to have contradicted yourself in your last sentence. First you say, "Point is if slayers buys all the good players then we will be getting a team that wins every time.... Imagine if Flash, jaedong, bisu etc. were all in the same team". Then, you say "Also, the best players have to be winning to leave, and I doubt Nestea and MVP would". Yeah. Thus, your worries about SlayerS making a boring monopoly of all the best players are unfounded. Nestea and MVP aren't going anywhere.


Polt is incredibly underrated seems like GSL ST didn't teach u anything

ELO works better then gsl ranking or "who won the most gsls a year ago". MC is playing really bad only has a high score(gsl ranking) since he won 2 gsls some months ago, but is in a huge slump misses easy forcefields, etc. Are u telling me fruitdealer is a awesome player just cause he won gsl ? He is in code A and barely wins some games, same will happen to mc.

About the contradiction not really, i never said most acomplished for each race, i said the best players (like top 10 or top 3 in a matchup TvZ etc).

Puzzle is regarded as the best Protoss by koreans atm.
Coca as one of the best zergs and the one with most potential.


Puzzle is regarded as the best protoss yet how much as he won? How consistent has he been over a longer period of time? Seems like the fanbase of SC2 are very quick to hype a player that's been good for a short while, when it's way harder to stay on top for ages. Artosis hypes players left and right and many of them turn out to not be as good or consistent as he and the community was expecting.

Also predicting that MC will slump like Fruitdealer seems like pure bs as MC still got 2nd as IEM and shows good games still. Fruitdealer and MC are in completely different spots atm. MC is still good, has motivation and has been in a slight slump lately, Fruitdealer hasn't been good for a year now and doesn't seem to care much. Your arguments seem weak to me.



You can't forget that we foreigners don't get the full picture. As tastosis have pointed out numerous times, Puzzle is consistently considered one of the best players in the world over in Korea. All we get to see is GSL, obviously the koreans have a more enlightened perspective.


Yet Artosis himself has said that there's not much going on in competitive SC2 in korea beside the GSL, so are people basing this of ladder? I'm not saying he isn't good but the guy i quoted more or less said he was better than MC and that MC will slump in the same way Fruitdealer did. You gotta admit that that is pretty much just bullshit, right?


Lets look at the last 2 seasons of gsl, anything prior to that is kind far away, nasl didn't have the top players except puma,alive and july, iem only had puma, so those aren't a good way to go about it.

Puzzle:


GSL July

Puzzle wins code A by defeating big names like MMA, Tassadar and happy.
Didn't lose a single map until the final against Tassadar!

August

Puzzle goes to the playoffs loses to ryung, when he is deciding joining the team of his opponent, you could see how friendly they were after the game. Doubt he was focusing on the game as much as switching teams, so there is always that excuse.

MC:

July

MC loses to a guy with an injured wrist.

August

Goes to up and down.
Btw he played awful against fenix on gstl, missing easy force-fields etc .




Rofl no bias against MC here....
vx70GTOJudgexv
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3161 Posts
September 02 2011 19:34 GMT
#390
On September 03 2011 02:23 babylon wrote:
I guess this makes SlayerS the strongest, deepest team? I mean, you have the argument that IM is the best team in the world, but when they're basically three heavyweights carrying the entire team, I dunno. Whereas SlayerS now has the following:

- CoCa: ZvP specialist who's been improving his other match-ups
- Puzzle: strong Protoss all around
- Ganzi: TvT specialist, above average TvZ and 1/1/1 TvP
- MMA: TvZ specialist, above average TvT, mediocre TvP
- Alicia: decent in PvP but lately has been slumping in the Era of 1/1/1
- Ryung: TvT specialist, above average TvZ, mediocre TvP
- Taeja: Very strong all around with a focus on TvP and TvT
- Boxer: Don't need to explain this one ...

Shame for ZeNEX though. Wonder if they'll fold.


So basically IM is the SKTT1 of the 08-09 season, and SlayerS is the CJ.
(-_-) BW for ever. #1 Iris fan.
Bashion
Profile Joined February 2011
Cook Islands2612 Posts
September 02 2011 20:01 GMT
#391
Fxo should sign Byun
I've got moves like Jagger
obsKura
Profile Joined March 2011
Ireland1061 Posts
September 02 2011 22:45 GMT
#392
this is huge and should be on the front page of TL
C9 ~^v^~ In EE-sama we trust. ~^v^~ C9
Soulish
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1403 Posts
September 02 2011 22:59 GMT
#393
On September 02 2011 19:49 Blitz Beat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 19:42 Angelbelow wrote:
On September 02 2011 19:39 HolyArrow wrote:
SlayerS = amazing team by international standards picking up great players

EG = pretty bad team by international standards picking up great players

Huge difference.


Haha HolyArrow is the ultimate type of hater. Better start thinking of more clever ways to hate on EG when they inevitably start winning. Oh wait.. theyve already starting to win gogogogogoo


The thing, for me at least, is SlayerS has shown that they have the ability to develop their own players (Min, Ryung, Alicia, MMA) while EG hasn't. It creates this notion that EG is just a weak team that buys success rather than cultivates it themselves.

Edit -

It's also been proven, by Taeja and Ganzi, that players who join SlayerS improve a lot. The opposite can be said for EG and their acquisitions (exception being PuMa and Huk since it's too early).

don't forget alicia. He was just mass gaming and cheesing almost every game before he joined slayers.
me all in, he drone drone drone, me win
Gator
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States3432 Posts
September 02 2011 23:03 GMT
#394
zenex just seems like slayers b team developing the players for them to move on
TSM
Iron.Fist
Profile Joined April 2011
Brazil268 Posts
September 02 2011 23:07 GMT
#395
SlayerS looking so good right now! Shame they are not playing season 1 playoffs
drgonzhere
Profile Joined November 2010
United States447 Posts
September 02 2011 23:11 GMT
#396
Slayers is going to be sosososososososososooooooo scary now. With all their recent moves they have just put themselves a level above other teams.
Dictator for Life of the PuMa Fanclub/ DRG, PuMA, Sage, Puzzle, MMA Fighting!
Vul
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States685 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-02 23:16:12
September 02 2011 23:15 GMT
#397
On September 02 2011 19:45 rareh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2011 19:39 HolyArrow wrote:
SlayerS = amazing team by international standards picking up great players

EG = pretty bad team by international standards picking up great players

Huge difference.


Agreed.

Bad team picking up good player(s) is good, so they can increase their skill or learn from the good player(s).

Good team picking up good player(s) is bad, so they can kill a team already having a hard time and create a situation where a smaller amount of teams can compete.




Totally agree, this is much worse then the EG thing.


This kind of trolling is so annoying. You don't have the right to take what other people say out of context. It is disrespectful to the people you are quoting and perfectly displays that you don't have a real argument to make. Grow up


NuKedUFirst
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada3139 Posts
September 02 2011 23:21 GMT
#398
Wow is SlayerS ever getting bigger. Looks like ZENEX is really shrinking Kinda of a bummer.

+ Show Spoiler +
SlayerS, You're killing eSports.
FrostedMiniWeet wrote: I like winning because it validates all the bloody time I waste playing SC2.
drgonzhere
Profile Joined November 2010
United States447 Posts
September 03 2011 00:29 GMT
#399
On September 03 2011 08:21 NuKedUFirst wrote:
Wow is SlayerS ever getting bigger. Looks like ZENEX is really shrinking Kinda of a bummer.

+ Show Spoiler +
SlayerS, You're killing eSports.


Or they're making it better by financially supporting these gosu players
Although idk how if slayers offers salaries to their players, I'm sure the housing and practice is superior.
Dictator for Life of the PuMa Fanclub/ DRG, PuMA, Sage, Puzzle, MMA Fighting!
Cyanocyst
Profile Joined October 2010
2222 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-03 02:45:49
September 03 2011 02:41 GMT
#400
SlayerS really bulking up on the Non-Terran front. Though i feel they are just becoming a bit too big. Would like to see them cut some of their fat.

Lol just realized this completes the cycle, of Slayers picking up one of each race from Zenex. Taeja, Coca, Puzzle.
|| Fruit Dealer | Leenock | Yughio | Coca | Sniper | True | Solar | Dark |
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