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zeehar
Korea (South)3804 Posts
On August 17 2011 13:59 OSM.OneManArmy wrote:I kinda agree with them though, a lot of the NASL production was a bit shoddy, esp compared to the IGN proleague.. it's not about the production, it's about the entire way the tournament was run by the organisers. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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zeehar
Korea (South)3804 Posts
On August 17 2011 14:00 emythrel wrote: Well if the koreans get the 5 star treatment, you would have to give everyone else the same treatment. GSL doesn't even pay for flights for people who want to compete unless its via the MLG partnership, and they expect things to be different for them? Bullshit. What about the Europeans? Could you imagine them making demands like this? No. Its costs just as much to fly from Europe to compete. ...and that is why they're not choosing to compete this time, in the same way you guys justify the lack of foreigners in GSL by saying "there's not enough financial incentive" to invest in it. grow up. | ||
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SourD
United States81 Posts
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Primadog
United States4411 Posts
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NHY
1013 Posts
On August 17 2011 13:48 whateverpeeps wrote: 1) Are you serious? If you sign a contract saying "I will do ___" and then don't do ____, then you have broken a contract. 2) Proof. That was only claimed by the TIG article was quickly rebuted on almost every point. 3) NASL was contacted by mediators who didn't knwo what was going on and didn't know how to talk to, yes. However, that's so unprofessional that I can't believe you're not grasping it. Do you know how shitty that kind of negotiation method is? Hint: nobody negotiates through a guy who talks to a guy who talks to a guy who talks to the other side. When you negotiate, two representatives who know what's going on and who have power to make decisions get together and talk. 4) No, I'm saying, their basis of lecturing NASL on what to do doesn't apply when they are doing something worse themselves. I"m also saying if they truly cared about improving the situation and making good relationships for the future, they would take NASL's invite to speak to them about the problem, and would have talked to them. 1) Again, did the contract say "I will not ask for security deposit back sooner" ? 2) Read NASL's own statement. 3) No, Mr. Chae knows what is going on and who to talk to. The negotiation can be done differently but it is by no means unprofessional. Having someone represent your side is not unprofessional. 4) You would be right if he came to TL or PlayXP and wrote this himself. They could do that but if I were MVP's coach, I'd wonder if there would be much point when what I wanted were denied by NASL in other occasion. | ||
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Azzur
Australia6259 Posts
On August 17 2011 14:02 zeehar wrote: ...and that is why they're not choosing to compete this time, in the same way you guys justify the lack of foreigners in GSL by saying "there's not enough financial incentive" to invest their money in it. grow up. Choosing not to compete is very different from violating a signed contract. As I mentioned earlier, the NASL did not do LESS than what was AGREED upon. I do agree that the NASL can do better. The concerns that the koreans voiced out can be used as feedback for the NASL to improve. In the end, it all boils down to money - if the NASL has gave in to the korean demands (airfare + hotel), they would've come. The whole matter was about the korean teams banding together to use their bargaining power. | ||
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whateverpeeps
United States214 Posts
On August 17 2011 14:00 Soohard wrote: NASL is so much fail, first time i watched the grand finals it was delayed by 2 hours for a simple reason of the projectors. Audio was awful 50 percent of the time I didn't even hear the broadcast. The camera man was extremely shaky like there was an earthquake or he wanted to be the camera man from cloverfield the movie. My point is NASL needs to be more organized, they treat the fans and koreans like dirt. This is a true fact. Ugh I hate take these articles and just use it as a complete basis to hate. First of all, yes the finals were delayed and it was crappy. But that's because, as Russ said, the projector blew out right before the start of the show. I really don't see how they could have expected or foreseen that...technical glitches can and do happen without anyone's mistake. Shaky camera...I've seen worse. Audio was crappy, I will give you that. However, I wouldn't go so far to say they treat fans and Koreans like dirt. In fact, I remember several people saying the live event was one of the best they've attended. I see several happily returning fans and players. And I don't think it's personal or carelessness, I think it's simple mistakes because of their inexperience. The big problem is that I feel like this hurt the Koreans' pride so they are pretty much unwilling to negotiate, otherwise they would have put more effort into it. But I feel like, if they expressed their perspective directly to NASL, about these little things and what they mean, it's not like NASL would say, "HAHAHA SCREW YOU." I'm sure they'd listen and take it into account. Problem is, everyone dropped out and nobody who made the decision to drop out talked to NASL about why they're dropping out. That's kind of crappy. | ||
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Slider954
United States342 Posts
On August 17 2011 13:52 NHY wrote: 1) Not really 2) They really did. Even in their OP, they said they were contacted by Mr. Chae. 3) He isn't saying NASL shouldn't have gone public at all. Also, why would he contact NASL when he has no intention of participating in it in current form. 5) It doesn't say players weren't shuttled, didn't have hotels booked. "Cared for" is very much subjective so not much point in discussing them, other than it actually says "NASL should take better care of the players." 1) Yes really, you sign a contract, you are giving your word to fulfill the contract. I don't know about you but when I give my word or promise I'm going to do something, I sure as hell I'm gonna do it because I don't want people doubting my word. 2) And again, Mr Chae is just a MEDIATOR, A MIDDLE MAN who was just relaying messages back and forth. To put it crudely, he the equivalent of a cell phone. He was just the instrument the Koreans decided to use to send their communications. And he didn't even know who was making the decisions. If he didn't know, how do you expect NASL to know? 3) If he has no intention of participating in NASL and his team didn't participate in the 1st season, why is he even talking. He even said in the actual interview that he couldn't comment on the contracts being signed for season 2 cause he wasn't privy to that. Well he wasn't privy to anything that happened in season 1 was he? 5) Jesus, what do they want, penthouse suites at the Ritz Carlton and limos taking them everywhere? They are the only ones complaining about this issue is the koreans, if the services provided were good enough for all the other players, it was good enough for them. | ||
Milkis
5003 Posts
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bovi
Japan208 Posts
read it. coach choi gave a good interview. especially liked this. "[NASL] should first release an apology about what happened," he said, "The Korean Teams feel that NASL is only trying to cover up their mistakes and blame the Korean teams. NASL posted their opinion on Team Liquid and not through official channels, causing not only the five Korean teams in question but also the rest of the Korean teams to feel that they lost their reputation. This is seen as extremely amateurish in Korea." i find what NASL did similar to FXO complaining about s2con. posting on a forum - which is so childish - instead of going through proper channels. not professional nor mature at all. | ||
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whateverpeeps
United States214 Posts
On August 17 2011 14:04 NHY wrote: 1) Again, did the contract say "I will not ask for security deposit back sooner" ? 2) Read NASL's own statement. 3) No, Mr. Chae knows what is going on and who to talk to. The negotiation can be done differently but it is by no means unprofessional. Having someone represent your side is not unprofessional. 4) You would be right if he came to TL or PlayXP and wrote this himself. They could do that but if I were MVP's coach, I'd wonder if there would be much point when what I wanted were denied by NASL in other occasion. I'm sorry but arguing with you is pointless. You just repeat the same stuff without understanding simple logic. When you sign a contract with a 60 day deadline, yes, you don't expect to receive it sooner. You are a victim of the same issue as the Koreans...where you don't believe contracts are exact and clearly defined. I've read NASL's own statements, I've been following this topic thoroughly, have you? And there is no difference between TL and interview...they are both public. I can Google and read both of them. Regardless, that's not even my point. My point is if he is truly interested in improving the relationship, he would have taken the very friendly invite to discuss the problems and what needs to be changed. If someone goes up to you and says, "Hey so I hear you have a problem. Can you tell me what it is so that I can see what I can do?" Is it a normal response to ignore them if you're actually interested in making things better? | ||
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Kaneh
Canada737 Posts
Like from milkis' comment, what do you say? "Don't drop us off on the wrong end of the airport"? that's embarrassing. "Have more than 1 match an hour"? You want to publish this stuff in an article? Do people honestly expect the korean teams to sit down and hold NASL's hands? Especially when most every other tourney like MLG has come out much more professionally about it? | ||
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slicknav
1409 Posts
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NHY
1013 Posts
On August 17 2011 14:05 Slider954 wrote: 1) Yes really, you sign a contract, you are giving your word to fulfill the contract. I don't know about you but when I give my word or promise I'm going to do something, I sure as hell I'm gonna do it because I don't want people doubting my word. 2) And again, Mr Chae is just a MEDIATOR, A MIDDLE MAN who was just relaying messages back and forth. To put it crudely, he the equivalent of a cell phone. He was just the instrument the Koreans decided to use to send their communications. And he didn't even know who was making the decisions. If he didn't know, how do you expect NASL to know? 3) If he has no intention of participating in NASL and his team didn't participate in the 1st season, why is he even talking. He even said in the actual interview that he couldn't comment on the contracts being signed for season 2 cause he wasn't privy to that. Well he wasn't privy to anything that happened in season 1 was he? 5) Jesus, what do they want, penthouse suites at the Ritz Carlton and limos taking them everywhere? They are the only ones complaining about this issue is the koreans, if the services provided were good enough for all the other players, it was good enough for them. 1) Again, you don't know what the contract does and doesn't say. 2) He knows who is making the decision because he is contacted by them to speak in the first place? 3) He is talking as a potential sign up for NASL. 5) Don't make a hyperbole. Are you saying since not everyone is complaining, it isn't legit? | ||
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whateverpeeps
United States214 Posts
On August 17 2011 14:12 Kaneh wrote: what it feels like is that the koreans think NASL was a really amateurish operation, but can't/won't just come out and say it cause that would look really bad. Like from milkis' comment, what do you say? "Don't drop us off on the wrong end of the airport"? that's embarrassing. "Have more than 1 match an hour"? You want to publish this stuff in an article? Do people honestly expect the korean teams to sit down and hold NASL's hands? Especially when most every other tourney like MLG has come out much more professionally about it? No, but I think what IS expected of them is that if they're going to negotiate, then do it properly (aka a REAL representative like a team managers its down with a rep from NASL). They have not done this. I think that's my biggest issue after breaking the contracts. The way they negotiated was so poor and disorganized and unprofessional that I don't think they have the right to call anyone else disorganized and unprofessional. That's NOT how you negotiate. And I'm sure if they HAD negotiated properly, better outcomes would have resulted for everybody. | ||
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L3gendary
Canada1470 Posts
On August 17 2011 14:02 zeehar wrote: ...and that is why they're not choosing to compete this time, in the same way you guys justify the lack of foreigners in GSL by saying "there's not enough financial incentive" to invest in it. grow up. Yes but do foreigners make demands to the gsl about it? No. They dont sign contracts saying they will play and then back out at the last moment either. They simply dont go. | ||
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Executor1
1353 Posts
On August 17 2011 13:08 Xeris wrote: We provided shuttle pickup and drop off services to all players at the finals. I'm not sure why he is commenting about something he wasn't there to witness T_T They werent saying they didnt get picked up, they were saying it cost them 80 dollars. Ive heard this from more than one source. Are you saying its not true? | ||
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darkest44
United States1009 Posts
On August 17 2011 14:02 zeehar wrote: ...and that is why they're not choosing to compete this time, in the same way you guys justify the lack of foreigners in GSL by saying "there's not enough financial incentive" to invest in it. grow up. Yea and what happens when someone pulls out of a GSL they qualified for at the last moment? They get banned from GSL and shunned by the korean community, ie Rain. But hey the same shouldn't apply to koreans when its a silly foreigner tournament right? They didnt simply "choose not to compete" before the qualifiers, they did it way after they already qualified and took spots in the brackets from people who would actually have played, thats the problem. Ditching at the last minute screws over NASL royally. Rain slightly screwed up one round of 32 group by giving 2 players a free win, this move screws up the entire NASL. | ||
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Kaneh
Canada737 Posts
On August 17 2011 14:15 L3gendary wrote: Yes but do foreigners make demands to the gsl about it? No. They dont sign contracts saying they will play and then back out at the last moment either. They simply dont go. does the GSL then make posts all over playXP about how the foreigners wronged them and are being babies like how NASL did on TL? | ||
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