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On August 17 2011 14:20 Kaneh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 14:18 whateverpeeps wrote:On August 17 2011 14:17 Kaneh wrote:On August 17 2011 14:15 L3gendary wrote:On August 17 2011 14:02 zeehar wrote:On August 17 2011 14:00 emythrel wrote:
Well if the koreans get the 5 star treatment, you would have to give everyone else the same treatment. GSL doesn't even pay for flights for people who want to compete unless its via the MLG partnership, and they expect things to be different for them? Bullshit.
What about the Europeans? Could you imagine them making demands like this? No. Its costs just as much to fly from Europe to compete. ...and that is why they're not choosing to compete this time, in the same way you guys justify the lack of foreigners in GSL by saying "there's not enough financial incentive" to invest in it. grow up. Yes but do foreigners make demands to the gsl about it? No. They dont sign contracts saying they will play and then back out at the last moment either. They simply dont go. does the GSL then make posts all over playXP about how the foreigners wronged them and are being babies like how NASL did on TL? Did NASL do that? Quote please. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253750or did you miss then entire community news thing. The whole post is just bashing on the korean/korean teams. EDIT:: to be more precise, the whole thing reads like an angry/raging joe average poster instead of the representative of a league annoucing news
All I have to say buddy is that you are reading something into that post that really isn't there.
I saw not one phrase of bashing. All I saw was, "This is what happened. We are disappointed." Disappointed is probably the closest you actually get to a negative emotion, and it simply refers to the face that they're not happy with how negotiations turned out.
This article does more "bashing" and even it's not actually bashing.
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On August 17 2011 14:24 Azzur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 14:21 bovi wrote:On August 17 2011 14:15 L3gendary wrote:
Yes but do foreigners make demands to the gsl about it? No. They dont sign contracts saying they will play and then back out at the last moment either.
They simply dont go. incorrect. sheth went and bailed out. team captain and all. Sheth's situation is different - the extra spot opened up but was something that was not expected. If Sheth had qualified for the up/down, I'm sure he would've followed through with it.
he still had gstl matches. he was team captain. you're practically saying he'd only stay for as long as he had solo matches to play. how endearing. and if i recall correctly, he nv said he'd stay if he made it to the up and downs.
he threw in the towel b4 his team's mission was complete. maybe for his own sanity, it was right of him to leave, but he did bail out. this is in answer to l3gendary's post. that's why sheth was released from his FXO contract.
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Excellent journalism by ESFI.
I applaud your efforts in the pursuit of truth as well as your tact and tone.
Thank you for the article.
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On August 17 2011 14:22 Azzur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 14:17 Kaneh wrote:On August 17 2011 14:15 L3gendary wrote:On August 17 2011 14:02 zeehar wrote:On August 17 2011 14:00 emythrel wrote:
Well if the koreans get the 5 star treatment, you would have to give everyone else the same treatment. GSL doesn't even pay for flights for people who want to compete unless its via the MLG partnership, and they expect things to be different for them? Bullshit.
What about the Europeans? Could you imagine them making demands like this? No. Its costs just as much to fly from Europe to compete. ...and that is why they're not choosing to compete this time, in the same way you guys justify the lack of foreigners in GSL by saying "there's not enough financial incentive" to invest in it. grow up. Yes but do foreigners make demands to the gsl about it? No. They dont sign contracts saying they will play and then back out at the last moment either. They simply dont go. does the GSL then make posts all over playXP about how the foreigners wronged them and are being babies like how NASL did on TL? GSL doesn't make posts because the foreigners did nothing wrong. If the koreans simply "chose not to participate" (e.g. boxer), that is totally fine and there will be no posts on TL. In fact, Boxer and NASL are on good terms.
Wrong wrong wrong. GOMTV GAVE 5 star treatments to foreigners.
Remember the 2011 GSL World Championship? All foreigner airplane tickets+ housing was cover by GOMTV
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_GSL_World_Championship. They were guarantee 2.7k as long as they play and win the preliminaries. Well guess what?
Some foreigners didn't bother to show up for the preliminaries and gave walk over to those that did.
Fact: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_GSL_World_Championship/Preliminaries
Guess what GOMTV did? nothing. They didn't bash them like what NASL.
So yes, foreigners do wrong too, just GOMTV have the don't bash them like what NASL do public.
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Every time a Korean manager speaks about this they look worse and worse, really disappointing.
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That is exactly what i said. What NASL did was just get pissed that the korean teams left and wanted to slander their names.
GL to NASL for future season because i think many wont be watching.
If you are "losing respect" for korean teams than you really didnt understand what they are like in the first place. they have a very different way of dealing with things in Korea and its why they tended to stay in korea for BW because of shit like what NASL did. Respect and keeping face is a huge deal in korea(and most asian countries) and they hate it when people slander their name.
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On August 17 2011 14:27 Slider954 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 14:14 NHY wrote:On August 17 2011 14:05 Slider954 wrote:On August 17 2011 13:52 NHY wrote:On August 17 2011 13:40 whateverpeeps wrote:On August 17 2011 13:31 NHY wrote:On August 17 2011 13:22 whateverpeeps wrote:On August 17 2011 13:19 L3gendary wrote:
Koreans' sense of entitlement is disgusting. They can barely get sponsors so they want nasl to foot the bill for all their expenses, and give their players manicures and spa treatment while they're at it. The worst part is they are lecturing NASL on what the proper way to go about things is, when: 1) They signed contracts, then broke them 2) Started negotiations, but made it impossible to know who to talk to 3) Talk about issues they have with NASL in public while criticizing NASL for going public, even though NASL wasn't directly criticizing anyone and they are 4) And doing the above after NASL clearly expressed that they don't know who made the decision and don't know who to talk to, ad that if anyone has a problem, to message them so they can talk and improve the situation and end on good terms. 5) Made several erroneous claims in this post alone. 1) You can't say the 'broke' the contract without know what it is. 2) NASL knew from the beginning who to talk to. You know the person who talked to them. 3) NASL created a thread in TL. He is doing an interview. 4) Again, NASL knows who to talk to, what the problem is. 5) Name them. 1) They signed saying they would be in season 2, and then they weren't. It's pretty straight forward. 2) No they actually didn't, and it honestly doesn't seem like they did, because even the mediators are saying they don't know who made the ultimate decision. Some people are saying SC2Con, some are saying team managers, but the team managers never contacted NASL directly, a claim NASL has stated several times and I haven't seen anybody challenge. 3) NASL created a thread in TL saying that Koreans won't be participating because of failed negotiations and what the negotiations are about. He criticized NASL for going public, while going public himself (TL isn't the only thing considered public). A wiser move would have been, if you read NASL saying "I am confused, a lot of people are telling me different things, nobody knows who made this decisions and I want to talk to them to see what the problem is)...you would then contact NASL and talk to them. 4) Above 5) That players weren't shuttled to and from the venue, weren't cared for, didn't have their hotels booked. They did. There are even pictures. 1) Not really 2) They really did. Even in their OP, they said they were contacted by Mr. Chae. 3) He isn't saying NASL shouldn't have gone public at all. Also, why would he contact NASL when he has no intention of participating in it in current form. 5) It doesn't say players weren't shuttled, didn't have hotels booked. "Cared for" is very much subjective so not much point in discussing them, other than it actually says "NASL should take better care of the players." 1) Yes really, you sign a contract, you are giving your word to fulfill the contract. I don't know about you but when I give my word or promise I'm going to do something, I sure as hell I'm gonna do it because I don't want people doubting my word. 2) And again, Mr Chae is just a MEDIATOR, A MIDDLE MAN who was just relaying messages back and forth. To put it crudely, he the equivalent of a cell phone. He was just the instrument the Koreans decided to use to send their communications. And he didn't even know who was making the decisions. If he didn't know, how do you expect NASL to know? 3) If he has no intention of participating in NASL and his team didn't participate in the 1st season, why is he even talking. He even said in the actual interview that he couldn't comment on the contracts being signed for season 2 cause he wasn't privy to that. Well he wasn't privy to anything that happened in season 1 was he? 5) Jesus, what do they want, penthouse suites at the Ritz Carlton and limos taking them everywhere? They are the only ones complaining about this issue is the koreans, if the services provided were good enough for all the other players, it was good enough for them. 1) Again, you don't know what the contract does and doesn't say. 2) He knows who is making the decision because he is contacted by them to speak in the first place?3) He is talking as a potential sign up for NASL. 5) Don't make a hyperbole. Are you saying since not everyone is complaining, it isn't legit? 1) Pretty damn sure it says that by signing this contact you are obligating yourself, giving your word that you are going to participate is season 2. That's enough right there 2) OMG Mr Chae has even said himself he didn't know who was making the decisons!! Are you saying he's lying or has amnesia about who he talked to? 5) And yes I am saying that, because if nobody else is complaining that means it wasn't as bad they are trying to portray it. It might not have been champagne wishes and caviar dreams but everybody else was satisfied by it and found it acceptable, cause if they didn't you can be sure their displeasure would be known by now with all this commotion. Basically, they wouldn't have kept their mouths shut about it.
1) And what other things are there?
2) Quote please. The one I saw was something like "Mr. Chae said he doesn't know who is behind this decision." He wouldn't know why teams decided as such, as he wasn't part of that decision.
5) Maybe, maybe not. There is a group of people saying one thing and another nothing. The silence doesn't mean vocal group is wrong.
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What the heck ? Stop being so amateurish? How about koreans stop being such divas? Europeans with terrible english have attended so many american competitions yet the koreans expect so much babying.
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On August 17 2011 14:32 bovi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 14:24 Azzur wrote:On August 17 2011 14:21 bovi wrote:On August 17 2011 14:15 L3gendary wrote:
Yes but do foreigners make demands to the gsl about it? No. They dont sign contracts saying they will play and then back out at the last moment either.
They simply dont go. incorrect. sheth went and bailed out. team captain and all. Sheth's situation is different - the extra spot opened up but was something that was not expected. If Sheth had qualified for the up/down, I'm sure he would've followed through with it. he still had gstl matches. he was team captain. you're practically saying he'd only stay for as long as he had solo matches to play. how endearing. and if i recall correctly, he nv said he'd stay if he made it to the up and downs. he threw in the towel b4 his team's mission was complete. maybe for his own sanity, it was right of him to leave, but he did bail out. this is in answer to l3gendary's post. that's why sheth was released from his FXO contract.
Anyways, whatever Sheth's situation was, what he would have done, is all pure speculation. The main thing is that he communicated with FXO and GSL.
In the NASL situation, the koreans came to the negotiating table and demanded more money (airfare + hotel). Since their demands were not met, they violated a contract they agreed upon.
What Sheth did is totally different to what the koreans did.
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On August 17 2011 14:17 Kaneh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 14:15 L3gendary wrote:On August 17 2011 14:02 zeehar wrote:On August 17 2011 14:00 emythrel wrote:
Well if the koreans get the 5 star treatment, you would have to give everyone else the same treatment. GSL doesn't even pay for flights for people who want to compete unless its via the MLG partnership, and they expect things to be different for them? Bullshit.
What about the Europeans? Could you imagine them making demands like this? No. Its costs just as much to fly from Europe to compete. ...and that is why they're not choosing to compete this time, in the same way you guys justify the lack of foreigners in GSL by saying "there's not enough financial incentive" to invest in it. grow up. Yes but do foreigners make demands to the gsl about it? No. They dont sign contracts saying they will play and then back out at the last moment either. They simply dont go. does the GSL then make posts all over playXP about how the foreigners wronged them and are being babies like how NASL did on TL?
Huh? The foriegners didn't mislead them by agreeing to participate and then telling them they wont if their demands aren't met.
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Yea I agree NASL got alot of problems however the korean teams entered the qualifier and signed the contract they knew about these problems before hand so there is no excuse!
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51531 Posts
On August 17 2011 14:34 deerpark87 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 14:22 Azzur wrote:On August 17 2011 14:17 Kaneh wrote:On August 17 2011 14:15 L3gendary wrote:On August 17 2011 14:02 zeehar wrote:On August 17 2011 14:00 emythrel wrote:
Well if the koreans get the 5 star treatment, you would have to give everyone else the same treatment. GSL doesn't even pay for flights for people who want to compete unless its via the MLG partnership, and they expect things to be different for them? Bullshit.
What about the Europeans? Could you imagine them making demands like this? No. Its costs just as much to fly from Europe to compete. ...and that is why they're not choosing to compete this time, in the same way you guys justify the lack of foreigners in GSL by saying "there's not enough financial incentive" to invest in it. grow up. Yes but do foreigners make demands to the gsl about it? No. They dont sign contracts saying they will play and then back out at the last moment either. They simply dont go. does the GSL then make posts all over playXP about how the foreigners wronged them and are being babies like how NASL did on TL? GSL doesn't make posts because the foreigners did nothing wrong. If the koreans simply "chose not to participate" (e.g. boxer), that is totally fine and there will be no posts on TL. In fact, Boxer and NASL are on good terms. Wrong wrong wrong. GOMTV GAVE 5 star treatments to foreigners. Remember the 2011 GSL World Championship? All foreigner airplane tickets+ housing was cover by GOMTV http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_GSL_World_Championship. They were guarantee 2.7k as long as they play and win the preliminaries. Well guess what? Some foreigners didn't bother to show up for the preliminaries and gave walk over to those that did. Fact: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_GSL_World_Championship/PreliminariesGuess what GOMTV did? nothing. They didn't bash them like what NASL. So yes, foreigners do wrong too, just GOMTV have the don't bash them like what NASL do public.
it was iterated by multiple team sources that they had to pay for flights themselves
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On August 17 2011 14:35 Herry wrote:
That is exactly what i said. What NASL did was just get pissed that the korean teams left and wanted to slander their names.
GL to NASL for future season because i think many wont be watching.
How did NASL slander their names?
Where is this bashing?
What are you guys talking about? What are you reading that I haven't read? Have you even stopped to consider that you may be projecting things into the post that weren't there?
Saying, "Koreans expressed concerns. We gave them offers. They rejected and will not be participating in Season 2. We are disappointed." IS NOT slandaring. I mean seriously, how the fuck is that slandarding?
Is that NOT what happened? Do Koreans claim that they are NOT actually withdrawing and that NASL didn't make the offers that they claimed to have? No. SO therefore, it cannot logically be slandering.
And the thread doesn't have a shred of bashing in it.
Reading 101 is highly needed for some people.
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On August 17 2011 14:34 deerpark87 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 14:22 Azzur wrote:On August 17 2011 14:17 Kaneh wrote:On August 17 2011 14:15 L3gendary wrote:On August 17 2011 14:02 zeehar wrote:On August 17 2011 14:00 emythrel wrote:
Well if the koreans get the 5 star treatment, you would have to give everyone else the same treatment. GSL doesn't even pay for flights for people who want to compete unless its via the MLG partnership, and they expect things to be different for them? Bullshit.
What about the Europeans? Could you imagine them making demands like this? No. Its costs just as much to fly from Europe to compete. ...and that is why they're not choosing to compete this time, in the same way you guys justify the lack of foreigners in GSL by saying "there's not enough financial incentive" to invest in it. grow up. Yes but do foreigners make demands to the gsl about it? No. They dont sign contracts saying they will play and then back out at the last moment either. They simply dont go. does the GSL then make posts all over playXP about how the foreigners wronged them and are being babies like how NASL did on TL? GSL doesn't make posts because the foreigners did nothing wrong. If the koreans simply "chose not to participate" (e.g. boxer), that is totally fine and there will be no posts on TL. In fact, Boxer and NASL are on good terms. Wrong wrong wrong. GOMTV GAVE 5 star treatments to foreigners. Remember the 2011 GSL World Championship? All foreigner airplane tickets+ housing was cover by GOMTV http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_GSL_World_Championship. They were guarantee 2.7k as long as they play and win the preliminaries. Well guess what? Some foreigners didn't bother to show up for the preliminaries and gave walk over to those that did. Fact: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_GSL_World_Championship/PreliminariesGuess what GOMTV did? nothing. They didn't bash them like what NASL. So yes, foreigners do wrong too, just GOMTV have the don't bash them like what NASL do public.
Anyways, what GOM does is a moot point (i.e. you may be right/wrong, but the discussion of what they did is not relevant to the current discussions).
NASL bashed the koreans because the koreans violated a SIGNED contract enmasse. It wasn't just one korean, it was many.
Could the NASL have organised the tournement better? Yes.
Could their PR be better? Yes.
But it still doesn't change the fact that the koreans pulled out because of MONEY and affected ALOT of people in the process.
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On August 17 2011 13:41 koolaid1990 wrote:
Wtf When did i ever say NASL made Boxer lose? I said he lost one single elimination bo3, after playing countless group play games and winning them. What im trying to point out here, is its unfair to win all these games, travel across the world, then lose 1 b03 and you just lose. Your Out.
They really should change the system, at least make it b05 or do loser's bracket.
Unfair? Not at all, considering it's the same thing that happened to Ret, Sheth, MorroW, HasuObs, Zenio, aLive and White-Ra. And considering this was WELL KNOWN to be the format since... the league was announced, ya know?
Does it suck? Absolutely.
Is it unfair? Absolutely not.
On August 17 2011 14:00 Soohard wrote:
My point is NASL needs to be more organized, they treat the fans and koreans like dirt. This is a true fact.
Actually, this is your opinion.
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On August 17 2011 14:31 whateverpeeps wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 14:20 Kaneh wrote:On August 17 2011 14:18 whateverpeeps wrote:On August 17 2011 14:17 Kaneh wrote:On August 17 2011 14:15 L3gendary wrote:On August 17 2011 14:02 zeehar wrote:On August 17 2011 14:00 emythrel wrote:
Well if the koreans get the 5 star treatment, you would have to give everyone else the same treatment. GSL doesn't even pay for flights for people who want to compete unless its via the MLG partnership, and they expect things to be different for them? Bullshit.
What about the Europeans? Could you imagine them making demands like this? No. Its costs just as much to fly from Europe to compete. ...and that is why they're not choosing to compete this time, in the same way you guys justify the lack of foreigners in GSL by saying "there's not enough financial incentive" to invest in it. grow up. Yes but do foreigners make demands to the gsl about it? No. They dont sign contracts saying they will play and then back out at the last moment either. They simply dont go. does the GSL then make posts all over playXP about how the foreigners wronged them and are being babies like how NASL did on TL? Did NASL do that? Quote please. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253750or did you miss then entire community news thing. The whole post is just bashing on the korean/korean teams. EDIT:: to be more precise, the whole thing reads like an angry/raging joe average poster instead of the representative of a league annoucing news All I have to say buddy is that you are reading something into that post that really isn't there. I saw not one phrase of bashing. All I saw was, "This is what happened. We are disappointed." Disappointed is probably the closest you actually get to a negative emotion, and it simply refers to the face that they're not happy with how negotiations turned out. This article does more "bashing" and even it's not actually bashing.
from the NASL post
We are disappointed that the Korean Committee waited until the final hour, not only to make these demands but also to notify us of their withdrawal. We would like to apologize to our fans who wanted to see these players participate in the NASL and to the Korean players who hoped to participate. While we do respect the Committee’s decision, we wish it had been made in a more timely manner that did not interrupt the start of our season.
straight up "son I'm dissapoint" from NASL. Not a single hard fact in that entire paragraph.
The entire post was trying to drum up emotions instead of being factual news. This is the exact kinda stuff that makes NASL appear like a very amateur organization to me and a signifigant number of people.
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i wonder why MVP coach not talk about how shitty SC2con it is. rather than talking nonsense
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On August 17 2011 14:21 deerpark87 wrote:
I can't see how NASL will be relevant anymore with IPL doing live event with 100k prize money.
...and for free to the fans with much better production.
Remember when NASL first announced that there's some "guy" dropped off 400k for the tournament to support esport as if it was a free 400k prize pool. Now everyone realized they charged this and that not only to the fans but also to the players. I wonder how much money have collected. Obviously, some rich guy (maybe EG) wanted to make big profit off the fans and the players without anyone knowing who's behind NASL.
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I don't understand this at all. It seems the only outcome of this is to create Drama. NASL is one tournament of many, it's an open tournament where you can apply for it. You sign a contract and get the details of what you can expect.
Some of the koreans NOT ALL KOREANS, didn't like it, so they don't want to continue being a part of it. Fine, why the hell do NASL and these korean players feel the urge to make a public stunt about it over and over again? what do they gain from by making the other side look evil, it doesn't change the situation that the korean teams feels like they aren't being compensated enough or that the NASL can't afford any more support.
We still have GSL, Dreamhack and MLG to name a few that has Korean and none koreans playing against each other. Why do people even care about what happens in NASL?
This is insane. It's nothing more than a clusterfuck of drama.
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On August 17 2011 12:55 Azzur wrote:
Fair enough. But its missing the whole point - signed contracts were violated. If you think a tournament is not up to standard, don't compete. Don't sign up for qualifiers and then pull out
Very true. Those signed-up teams should take responsibility too, they cannot solely blame NASL for poor scheduling (indeed they are) and running of the tournament.
MVP coach stated the problems from NASL, and the demands from Korean teams, from the 3rd angle of the incident. I hope both invloved parties can learn from it and lets make esports become better and better.
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EPT
