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Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 872

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Sabu113
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States11047 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-08 01:22:20
January 07 2014 19:22 GMT
#17421
1-15 in PL so far. All conquering protoss... not so all conquering when matches are played. Even the Bo1s commonly thought to favor toss.

edit: WK 2 to be clear.
Biomine is a drunken chick who is on industrial strength amphetamines and would just grab your dick and jerk it as hard and violently as she could while screaming 'OMG FUCK ME', because she saw it in a Sasha Grey video ...-Wombat_Ni
TurboMaN
Profile Joined October 2005
Germany925 Posts
January 07 2014 19:36 GMT
#17422
Well many Protoss in PL have been playing really really strange. At least in the TvP games I've seen.
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
January 07 2014 20:03 GMT
#17423
On January 08 2014 04:22 Sabu113 wrote:
1-15 in PL so far. All conquering protoss... not so all conquering when matches are played. Even the Bo1s commonly thought to favor toss.

Quick, buff the Oracle again!
w3c.TruE
Profile Joined November 2013
Czech Republic1055 Posts
January 07 2014 20:18 GMT
#17424
On January 08 2014 05:03 TheDwf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2014 04:22 Sabu113 wrote:
1-15 in PL so far. All conquering protoss... not so all conquering when matches are played. Even the Bo1s commonly thought to favor toss.

Quick, buff the Oracle again!

Nobody is saying Protoss is underpowered or something... But i guess, you guys will be complaining even if Protoss would have winrate like 10%. We just can´t have players in finals of any bigger tournament, becouse if we have, Protoss is clearly IMBA. Sigh.
Dream, Dark, herO, PartinG, RorO, Bbyong, Rain, soO, PtitDrogo <3. Goodbye RorO, MC you were awesome! You will be remembered!
TheManInBlack
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Nigeria266 Posts
January 07 2014 20:47 GMT
#17425
^ What?
Pirfiktshon
Profile Joined June 2013
United States1072 Posts
January 07 2014 21:11 GMT
#17426
Ok, Here is my prediction.... TvP will be a Downswing in the next couple weeks then protoss will go OH we just can't do all this crap we have to play more solid and less greedy either tech wise or Economically and then we will see the Head of the beast being reared....

I.E. We will see a ton of matches like Maru vs Dear in WCS and like TvP in the first day of PL........

Can someone tell me why casters say "Good Storms"? Honestly if it was Protoss microing in a way to cause Bio to clump up and Kiting and storming and dropping 2 bases at once and pressing the advantage on Terrans third while storming and kiting I'd say DANNNGGGGGGG GOOD STORMS........... but honestly it should be oh crap Terran didn't split or Storm dodge but identifying a clump of Marines or Marauder is something an infant could do but I just think its an easy oversight to think or see the visual aspect of a Storm or FB and say OOOOooooooOOOOOO AHHHHHHHH but its just T click or F click .... I don't know maybe Protoss can help me identify why people say Good storms when its the Only battle, Protoss just A moved and T clicked while Terran is Splitting / Kiting , Emping, Sniping, focus firing vikings just to barely break even in the engagement......
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12158 Posts
January 07 2014 21:25 GMT
#17427
On January 08 2014 06:11 Pirfiktshon wrote:
Can someone tell me why casters say "Good Storms"? Honestly if it was Protoss microing in a way to cause Bio to clump up and Kiting and storming and dropping 2 bases at once and pressing the advantage on Terrans third while storming and kiting I'd say DANNNGGGGGGG GOOD STORMS........... but honestly it should be oh crap Terran didn't split or Storm dodge but identifying a clump of Marines or Marauder is something an infant could do but I just think its an easy oversight to think or see the visual aspect of a Storm or FB and say OOOOooooooOOOOOO AHHHHHHHH but its just T click or F click .... I don't know maybe Protoss can help me identify why people say Good storms when its the Only battle, Protoss just A moved and T clicked while Terran is Splitting / Kiting , Emping, Sniping, focus firing vikings just to barely break even in the engagement......


Most of the time the casters say good storm because they're supposed to say good things about the players, so they just see a storm and assume it's going to be good. But yeah, there is such a thing as a good storm, I'm not sure how you could not see that. JYP vs Fantasy on that awful Korhal map featured some of those. Sora vs Flash did as well at some (infamous) point :p
No will to live, no wish to die
ffadicted
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3545 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-07 21:36:02
January 07 2014 21:32 GMT
#17428
They say good storms because they were good and effective storms? lol
It's like not celebrating a goal in soccer just because the goalie messed up an easy save. It's still a goal. At the end of the day, if your opponent f*cks up and you capitalize, that's good play on your part.

On January 08 2014 06:11 Pirfiktshon wrote: Protoss just A moved and T clicked while Terran is Splitting / Kiting , Emping, Sniping, focus firing vikings just to barely break even in the engagement......


Your lack of understanding of how protoss and TvP engagements work is astonishing tbh It doesn't surprise me why some of you QQ about losing to protoss so much if this is how you think things actually work lol Unless you were over-exagerating for effect, in which case, ok lol

Also I wouldn't look too much into the proleague stats, some of those Toss builds have been like wtfff... But it's nice to know people aren't losing to "wtf" builds that should never work anymore due to better scouting and proper responses.
SooYoung-Noona!
Survivor61316
Profile Joined July 2012
United States470 Posts
January 08 2014 00:26 GMT
#17429
On January 08 2014 06:32 ffadicted wrote:
They say good storms because they were good and effective storms? lol
It's like not celebrating a goal in soccer just because the goalie messed up an easy save. It's still a goal. At the end of the day, if your opponent f*cks up and you capitalize, that's good play on your part.

Show nested quote +
On January 08 2014 06:11 Pirfiktshon wrote: Protoss just A moved and T clicked while Terran is Splitting / Kiting , Emping, Sniping, focus firing vikings just to barely break even in the engagement......


Your lack of understanding of how protoss and TvP engagements work is astonishing tbh It doesn't surprise me why some of you QQ about losing to protoss so much if this is how you think things actually work lol Unless you were over-exagerating for effect, in which case, ok lol

Also I wouldn't look too much into the proleague stats, some of those Toss builds have been like wtfff... But it's nice to know people aren't losing to "wtf" builds that should never work anymore due to better scouting and proper responses.

If Toss micro is more complicated than that, then list why and what they have to do.. If not dont say anything at all, As it is right now, I have never seen someone who plays as Toss counter the argument that Toss requires little battle micro by telling why they do; they just always say something like "you have no idea what you're talking about" and leave it at that, which obviously proves nothing...
Liquid Fighting
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
January 08 2014 00:30 GMT
#17430
What they say is:

You need to
- Place zealots in front of the army
- Blink near vikings and target fire them
- Micro back colossi
- Cast guardian shield and possibly FF
- Cast Time Warp (again)
- Feedback ghosts
- Target archons on clumps of marines

Did I miss anything?
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Survivor61316
Profile Joined July 2012
United States470 Posts
January 08 2014 00:41 GMT
#17431
On January 08 2014 04:22 Sabu113 wrote:
1-15 in PL so far. All conquering protoss... not so all conquering when matches are played. Even the Bo1s commonly thought to favor toss.

Well I haven't checked the stats for all the games..but I did watch the first match and I know Rain and Parting won..so you're already wrong.. Forgive me at this point if I don't believe a word you say..
Liquid Fighting
Survivor61316
Profile Joined July 2012
United States470 Posts
January 08 2014 00:53 GMT
#17432
On January 08 2014 09:30 Ghanburighan wrote:
What they say is:

You need to
- Place zealots in front of the army
- Blink near vikings and target fire them
- Micro back colossi
- Cast guardian shield and possibly FF
- Cast Time Warp (again)
- Feedback ghosts
- Target archons on clumps of marines

Did I miss anything?

Well half of these are things you do before the battle (fb, zealots in front, blinks, timewarp). Also, theres really no reason to target fire with archons, its just wasted apm since storms will most likely kill all marines anyways. Stalkers will autotarget vikings for the most part bc theyre going to be the first enemy they run across in an a-move scenario (the bio will have to kite or just lose to zealots). And microing back a collosi isnt taxing at all seeing how the unit is so damn easy to click on. And come on, who uses sentries anymore, especially late game??
Liquid Fighting
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
January 08 2014 01:00 GMT
#17433
I just said what has been repeated in these discussions a dozen times. Perhaps you should rephrase the question: what is it that the P needs to win battles, compared to what the terran is doing at the same time. Because if you look at Rain versus Flash, both players micro their units to their very limits.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
-Celestial-
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom3867 Posts
January 08 2014 01:14 GMT
#17434
On January 08 2014 09:53 Survivor61316 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2014 09:30 Ghanburighan wrote:
What they say is:

You need to
- Place zealots in front of the army
- Blink near vikings and target fire them
- Micro back colossi
- Cast guardian shield and possibly FF
- Cast Time Warp (again)
- Feedback ghosts
- Target archons on clumps of marines

Did I miss anything?

Well half of these are things you do before the battle (fb, zealots in front, blinks, timewarp). Also, theres really no reason to target fire with archons, its just wasted apm since storms will most likely kill all marines anyways. Stalkers will autotarget vikings for the most part bc theyre going to be the first enemy they run across in an a-move scenario (the bio will have to kite or just lose to zealots). And microing back a collosi isnt taxing at all seeing how the unit is so damn easy to click on. And come on, who uses sentries anymore, especially late game??


Wrong.

Kinda funny that you think that blink/target fire with stalkers on Vikings which are attacking Colossi during the engagements is something you do before battle rather than during. What part is the battle then? When one side is cleaning up the stragglers?

Although based on the comments you made here about all the stuff that "so easy for Protoss" if you're suiciding Vikings into an unengaged Protoss army to try and kill Colossi (i.e. meaning the blink/target fire stuff is before the battle). Or are suiciding all of your Ghosts in to try and EMP/Snipe rather than keeping a few back for the engagement itself. Or are a-moving your army into a well ordered Protoss army to the point your Vikings fly right over the top of his stalkers. Well...I think I just found some of your TvP problems.


Also to throw a few more on the list:
- Target fire Colossi. Target fire Immortals.
- Zealots to front yes, but that's forgetting the the optimal layering as follows: Archons, Immortals + Stalkers, Colossi. As well as maneuvering for effect on your HTs.
- Adjust sentry positioning for Guardian Shield coverage.

Oh and:
- Look away from the battle to warp more stuff in or you can flat out die if you lose the engagement.

Easy to forget that one.
"Protoss simultaneously feels unbeatably strong and unwinnably weak." - kcdc
Sabu113
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States11047 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-08 01:21:12
January 08 2014 01:16 GMT
#17435
On January 08 2014 05:03 TheDwf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2014 04:22 Sabu113 wrote:
1-15 in PL so far. All conquering protoss... not so all conquering when matches are played. Even the Bo1s commonly thought to favor toss.

Quick, buff the Oracle again!


Hahahaha!

Movespeed buff to 5 right? Or can we restore that ridiculous phase out ability?

edit: Also went and checked the source. To the person doubting, Rain won a PvP. It's a bit silly but I couldn't resist when apparently the sky was falling.
Biomine is a drunken chick who is on industrial strength amphetamines and would just grab your dick and jerk it as hard and violently as she could while screaming 'OMG FUCK ME', because she saw it in a Sasha Grey video ...-Wombat_Ni
SC2Toastie
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
Netherlands5725 Posts
January 08 2014 01:23 GMT
#17436
On January 08 2014 10:14 -Celestial- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2014 09:53 Survivor61316 wrote:
On January 08 2014 09:30 Ghanburighan wrote:
What they say is:

You need to
- Place zealots in front of the army
- Blink near vikings and target fire them
- Micro back colossi
- Cast guardian shield and possibly FF
- Cast Time Warp (again)
- Feedback ghosts
- Target archons on clumps of marines

Did I miss anything?

Well half of these are things you do before the battle (fb, zealots in front, blinks, timewarp). Also, theres really no reason to target fire with archons, its just wasted apm since storms will most likely kill all marines anyways. Stalkers will autotarget vikings for the most part bc theyre going to be the first enemy they run across in an a-move scenario (the bio will have to kite or just lose to zealots). And microing back a collosi isnt taxing at all seeing how the unit is so damn easy to click on. And come on, who uses sentries anymore, especially late game??


Wrong.

Kinda funny that you think that blink/target fire with stalkers on Vikings which are attacking Colossi during the engagements is something you do before battle rather than during. What part is the battle then? When one side is cleaning up the stragglers?

Although based on the comments you made here about all the stuff that "so easy for Protoss" if you're suiciding Vikings into an unengaged Protoss army to try and kill Colossi (i.e. meaning the blink/target fire stuff is before the battle). Or are suiciding all of your Ghosts in to try and EMP/Snipe rather than keeping a few back for the engagement itself. Or are a-moving your army into a well ordered Protoss army to the point your Vikings fly right over the top of his stalkers. Well...I think I just found some of your TvP problems.


Also to throw a few more on the list:
- Target fire Colossi. Target fire Immortals.
- Zealots to front yes, but that's forgetting the the optimal layering as follows: Archons, Immortals + Stalkers, Colossi. As well as maneuvering for effect on your HTs.
- Adjust sentry positioning for Guardian Shield coverage.

Oh and:
- Look away from the battle to warp more stuff in or you can flat out die if you lose the engagement.

Easy to forget that one.

Please don't act like Protoss is seriously ordering their army. You attack, blink stalkers away to hit vikings, meanwhile, Charge and the Archon speed manouver the army for you.
And also, it is not cool to act like warp in is a disadvantage. If it takes longer than a second or 2 to z shift clickclickclick or you have to look very far away it is your fault, try 5aaaaaadddddd7vv WHILE dodging storms and kite auto-move Archon/Zealot.

In an optimal situation, yes, Protoss could be doing those things to get tiny tiny tiny little advantages. However, Toss doesn't have to because SC2s great pathing allow Archon Zealot to attack bio near optimally after Stalkers have blunk away.

Toss micro: BLink and preferably targetfire stalkers, you probably had the timewarps down beforehand, pull away all collosi Only if you screwed up on that, slick storms.

Terrans usually EMP before the fight, just as viking position. When the fight starts, Terran has to target the vikings, perhaps EMP a few more times, after that, it is only kiting/splitting/Storm dodging, mostly there is no macro going on just because you cant.

Terran has more intensive micro to do as the battle is raging, IMO, but you are both exaggerating how much you 'do', of which you both know you probably don;'t even do half.
Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!
Survivor61316
Profile Joined July 2012
United States470 Posts
January 08 2014 01:32 GMT
#17437
On January 08 2014 10:16 Sabu113 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2014 05:03 TheDwf wrote:
On January 08 2014 04:22 Sabu113 wrote:
1-15 in PL so far. All conquering protoss... not so all conquering when matches are played. Even the Bo1s commonly thought to favor toss.

Quick, buff the Oracle again!


Hahahaha!

Movespeed buff to 5 right? Or can we restore that ridiculous phase out ability?

edit: Also went and checked the source. To the person doubting, Rain won a PvP. It's a bit silly but I couldn't resist when apparently the sky was falling.

Rain won a PvT and Parting won a PvZ..again, get your facts straight.
Liquid Fighting
Survivor61316
Profile Joined July 2012
United States470 Posts
January 08 2014 01:35 GMT
#17438
On January 08 2014 10:14 -Celestial- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2014 09:53 Survivor61316 wrote:
On January 08 2014 09:30 Ghanburighan wrote:
What they say is:

You need to
- Place zealots in front of the army
- Blink near vikings and target fire them
- Micro back colossi
- Cast guardian shield and possibly FF
- Cast Time Warp (again)
- Feedback ghosts
- Target archons on clumps of marines

Did I miss anything?

Well half of these are things you do before the battle (fb, zealots in front, blinks, timewarp). Also, theres really no reason to target fire with archons, its just wasted apm since storms will most likely kill all marines anyways. Stalkers will autotarget vikings for the most part bc theyre going to be the first enemy they run across in an a-move scenario (the bio will have to kite or just lose to zealots). And microing back a collosi isnt taxing at all seeing how the unit is so damn easy to click on. And come on, who uses sentries anymore, especially late game??


Wrong.

Kinda funny that you think that blink/target fire with stalkers on Vikings which are attacking Colossi during the engagements is something you do before battle rather than during. What part is the battle then? When one side is cleaning up the stragglers?

Although based on the comments you made here about all the stuff that "so easy for Protoss" if you're suiciding Vikings into an unengaged Protoss army to try and kill Colossi (i.e. meaning the blink/target fire stuff is before the battle). Or are suiciding all of your Ghosts in to try and EMP/Snipe rather than keeping a few back for the engagement itself. Or are a-moving your army into a well ordered Protoss army to the point your Vikings fly right over the top of his stalkers. Well...I think I just found some of your TvP problems.


Also to throw a few more on the list:
- Target fire Colossi. Target fire Immortals.
- Zealots to front yes, but that's forgetting the the optimal layering as follows: Archons, Immortals + Stalkers, Colossi. As well as maneuvering for effect on your HTs.
- Adjust sentry positioning for Guardian Shield coverage.

Oh and:
- Look away from the battle to warp more stuff in or you can flat out die if you lose the engagement.

Easy to forget that one.

Lmao ok man, you think whatever you want. You're clearly so delusional, pointing out why will have no effect, bc logic clearly isn't playing a huge part in your argument. Have a good day though.
Liquid Fighting
ffadicted
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3545 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-08 01:49:14
January 08 2014 01:47 GMT
#17439
It's 2014 and people still don't realize that protoss suffers the most from non-optimal army control and micro, poor engagement positioning, etc lol That was the whole reasoning for recall to be created in the first place. At this point, making fun of a-move toss is about as valid as the old "1sr" comment tosses used to make for ZvP lol

But what's the point of arguing really lol
SooYoung-Noona!
Deleted User 261926
Profile Joined April 2012
960 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-08 02:04:23
January 08 2014 01:53 GMT
#17440
On January 08 2014 10:32 Survivor61316 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2014 10:16 Sabu113 wrote:
On January 08 2014 05:03 TheDwf wrote:
On January 08 2014 04:22 Sabu113 wrote:
1-15 in PL so far. All conquering protoss... not so all conquering when matches are played. Even the Bo1s commonly thought to favor toss.

Quick, buff the Oracle again!


Hahahaha!

Movespeed buff to 5 right? Or can we restore that ridiculous phase out ability?

edit: Also went and checked the source. To the person doubting, Rain won a PvP. It's a bit silly but I couldn't resist when apparently the sky was falling.

Rain won a PvT and Parting won a PvZ..again, get your facts straight.

also Jila beat soulkey with proxy 1gate+cannon rush. (starting to think this guy is just an idiot)

edit:
Rain vs Dream
PartingG vs DRG
Squirtle vs Terror
Sora vs Flash
Stats vs hydra
Zest vs Bbyong
Trap vs Shine
YongHwa vs keen
Jila vs Soulkey
Parting vs Terror

These are the protoss wins.

Soo vs Super
Byul vs Remember
// vs creator
Solar vs sos
Maru vs stork
rogue vs trend
Solar vs sos
TY vs herO
Sniper vs squirtle
TY vs sos
cure vs zest
Maru vs stats
Maru vs zest
roro vs sora
Sniper vs Jila
Keen vs creator
Byul vs rain
Soo vs Trap
Soulkey vs squirtle
Maru vs hero
Rogue vs trust
Flash vs emotion
Roro vs stats
Solar vs zest

Protoss is currently 10-23. Lie more pls.
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