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Changing Snipe from 25+25 psi to 30+20 psi does the following in TvZ:
Sniping Broodlords:
@45 per snipe (old) -> 5 snipes to kill
@30 per snipe (suggested) -> 8 snipes to kill
@25 per snipe (current) -> 9 snipes to kill
Sniping Ultras:
@45 per snipe (old) -> 12 snipes to kill
@30 per snipe (suggested) -> 17 snipes to kill
@25 per snipe (current) -> 20 snipes to kill
Sniping Hydras:
@45 per snipe (old) -> 2 snipes to kill
@30 per snipe (suggested) -> 3 snipes to kill
@25 per snipe (current) -> 4 snipes to kill
Sniping Roaches:
@45 per snipe (old) -> 4 snipes to kill
@30 per snipe (suggested) -> 5 snipes to kill
@25 per snipe (current) -> 6 snipes to kill
Sniping Mutas:
@45 per snipe (old) -> 3 snipes to kill
@30 per snipe (suggested) -> 4 snipes to kill
@25 per snipe (current) -> 5 snipes to kill
Sniping Vipers:
3 snipes to kill: No change (psionic)
Sniping Overseers:
@45 per snipe (old) -> 5 snipes to kill
@30 per snipe (suggested) -> 7 snipes to kill
@25 per snipe (current) -> 8 snipes to kill
Sniping Banelings:
@45 per snipe (old) -> 1 snipe to kill
@30 per snipe (suggested) -> 1 snipe to kill
@25 per snipe (current) -> 2 snipes to kill
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On December 17 2013 18:26 Kyrao wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 18:09 vthree wrote:On December 17 2013 16:53 darkness wrote:On December 16 2013 21:07 Kyrao wrote:
What do you guys think about changing snipe from 25+25 psi to 30+20 psi so that ghosts can snipe banelings again? How fucking awesome would that be?
Ghosts are so one dimensional right now.... I mean, a lot of T pros even skip them in TvP because they cost so much (200/100 apiece) and have next to no utility after they either get burned alive by the collossi lasers or insta gibbed by feedbacks... Ghosts are always useful even for EMP alone.  There is a difference between useful and one dimensional. IE. HTs would be useful even if they just had storm, but having feedback as well gives them more utility. Both snipe and EMP are anti-casters right now. Also, the fact that once you cast all your energy away, you can morph them into a tanky splash nuker makes them even less one-dimensional... Whereas a ghost does less dps than two stimmed marines (even against light) and costs 200/100 v 50/150 for a HT. Balance.
Remember EMP destroys shields on Toss units.
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Get Snipe back to 25 vs Massive, 45 normal (+5 Psionic)
Exactly the same as it has been before Snipe was thrashed to deal with broodlords - this also makes snipe kinda good vs zealots
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You will never see ghosts built in TvZ, minor snipe buffs against non-massive won't change that.
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On December 17 2013 18:28 Kyrao wrote:
Changing Snipe from 25+25 psi to 30+20 psi does the following in TvZ:
Sniping Broodlords:
@45 per snipe (old) -> 5 snipes to kill
@30 per snipe (suggested) -> 8 snipes to kill
@25 per snipe (current) -> 9 snipes to kill
Sniping Ultras:
@45 per snipe (old) -> 12 snipes to kill
@30 per snipe (suggested) -> 17 snipes to kill
@25 per snipe (current) -> 20 snipes to kill
Sniping Hydras:
@45 per snipe (old) -> 2 snipes to kill
@30 per snipe (suggested) -> 3 snipes to kill
@25 per snipe (current) -> 4 snipes to kill
Sniping Roaches:
@45 per snipe (old) -> 4 snipes to kill
@30 per snipe (suggested) -> 5 snipes to kill
@25 per snipe (current) -> 6 snipes to kill
Sniping Mutas:
@45 per snipe (old) -> 3 snipes to kill
@30 per snipe (suggested) -> 4 snipes to kill
@25 per snipe (current) -> 5 snipes to kill
Sniping Vipers:
3 snipes to kill: No change (psionic)
Sniping Overseers:
@45 per snipe (old) -> 5 snipes to kill
@30 per snipe (suggested) -> 7 snipes to kill
@25 per snipe (current) -> 8 snipes to kill
Sniping Banelings:
@45 per snipe (old) -> 1 snipe to kill
@30 per snipe (suggested) -> 1 snipe to kill
@25 per snipe (current) -> 2 snipes to kill
Problem with snipe is similar to old chain fungal:
- if it is really good, you just chain snipe anything that it is good against without the opponent having anything to hold against it
- if it is not good, you only use it as an energy dump after the ghost has done what it was built for (e.g. EMP casters, Protoss shields, cloak assault with observes snipe)
The 30damage instead of 25 is a nice suggestion and I wouldn't mind it if they tried it, but I fear it falls into the same category as it is now: you are not going to use it against banelings, broodlords, Mutas, Hydras, etc. So you will (maybe) only use ghosts when there are mass Infestors or Vipers on the field (which is very rare to begin with, and even now when it happens, there are usually better alternatives than a "sudden ghost switch").
I think a much better approach would be to redesign the snipe ability like they did with Fungal or HSM, which are still powerful damage spells but possible to handle for the opponent by micro (whereas they were before like snipe, spells that could wreck most armies completely on their own if you got enough of the associated casters).
E.g. make it so that the targets must not move "too much" in the short channeling animation for a (buffed) snipe to hit.
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What about restoring the damage to a flat 45 vs everything, but adding a short ~2 second aiming animation to lower the overall DPS without reducing the high initial burst damage? To add more micro interactions, perhaps if the ghost takes any damage during this time the snipe is canceled?
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On December 17 2013 18:09 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 16:53 darkness wrote:On December 16 2013 21:07 Kyrao wrote:
What do you guys think about changing snipe from 25+25 psi to 30+20 psi so that ghosts can snipe banelings again? How fucking awesome would that be?
Ghosts are so one dimensional right now.... I mean, a lot of T pros even skip them in TvP because they cost so much (200/100 apiece) and have next to no utility after they either get burned alive by the collossi lasers or insta gibbed by feedbacks... Ghosts are always useful even for EMP alone. There is a difference between useful and one dimensional. IE. HTs would be useful even if they just had storm, but having feedback as well gives them more utility. Both snipe and EMP are anti-casters right now.
Snipe may be counter caster emp is much more effective though and I think it suffers from severe overlap, (like FF and time warp imo).
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On December 17 2013 19:18 -NegativeZero- wrote:
What about restoring the damage to a flat 45 vs everything, but adding a short ~2 second aiming animation to lower the overall DPS without reducing the high initial burst damage? To add more micro interactions, perhaps if the ghost takes any damage during this time the snipe is canceled?
That would be agiant nerf for TvP. HTs would just always feedback them while channeling
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On December 17 2013 18:26 Kyrao wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 18:09 vthree wrote:On December 17 2013 16:53 darkness wrote:On December 16 2013 21:07 Kyrao wrote:
What do you guys think about changing snipe from 25+25 psi to 30+20 psi so that ghosts can snipe banelings again? How fucking awesome would that be?
Ghosts are so one dimensional right now.... I mean, a lot of T pros even skip them in TvP because they cost so much (200/100 apiece) and have next to no utility after they either get burned alive by the collossi lasers or insta gibbed by feedbacks... Ghosts are always useful even for EMP alone. There is a difference between useful and one dimensional. IE. HTs would be useful even if they just had storm, but having feedback as well gives them more utility. Both snipe and EMP are anti-casters right now. Also, the fact that once you cast all your energy away, you can morph them into a tanky splash nuker makes them even less one-dimensional... Whereas a ghost does less dps than two stimmed marines (even against light) and costs 200/100 v 50/150 for a HT. Balance.
Ghosts have nuke though and can be invisible, i think terrans should try to use that more.
edit: but i guess in the current form it's not worth it 
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On December 17 2013 19:28 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 18:26 Kyrao wrote:On December 17 2013 18:09 vthree wrote:On December 17 2013 16:53 darkness wrote:On December 16 2013 21:07 Kyrao wrote:
What do you guys think about changing snipe from 25+25 psi to 30+20 psi so that ghosts can snipe banelings again? How fucking awesome would that be?
Ghosts are so one dimensional right now.... I mean, a lot of T pros even skip them in TvP because they cost so much (200/100 apiece) and have next to no utility after they either get burned alive by the collossi lasers or insta gibbed by feedbacks... Ghosts are always useful even for EMP alone. There is a difference between useful and one dimensional. IE. HTs would be useful even if they just had storm, but having feedback as well gives them more utility. Both snipe and EMP are anti-casters right now. Also, the fact that once you cast all your energy away, you can morph them into a tanky splash nuker makes them even less one-dimensional... Whereas a ghost does less dps than two stimmed marines (even against light) and costs 200/100 v 50/150 for a HT. Balance. Ghosts have nuke though and can be invisible, i think terrans should try to use that more.
Paying 100/100 for something that does nothing some forcefields do not and risking a 200/100 unit with it? Hoping the opponent fucks up? Good game plan...
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I don't say this is reliable at the moment, but that the Ghost is so much more one dimensional than the ht is just bs.
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On December 17 2013 19:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I don't say this is reliable at the moment, but that the Ghost is so much more one dimensional than the ht is just bs.
Because?
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On December 17 2013 19:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I don't say this is reliable at the moment, but that the Ghost is so much more one dimensional than the ht is just bs.
Lol ? HT are useful against :
Bio, Ghosts, Vikings, Ravens, Banshess, Medivacs, Battlecruisers, SCV
Hydras, Zerglings, Infestors, Vipers, Broodlords, Locusts/SH, Drones, Queens.
They can morph into archons afterward that are useful against :
Everything.
Ghost are used for what ? EMP the protoss army and sniping HT. That's all. You'll never see ghost becoming a common thing in TvZ because Vikings deal better with Viper and mass infestors just suck.
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On December 17 2013 19:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I don't say this is reliable at the moment, but that the Ghost is so much more one dimensional than the ht is just bs.
I see high templars in all protoss matchups. I only see ghosts in TvP. Some terrans even skip them all together in favor of bigger bio ball and count on storm dodging instead of landing EMPs.
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Yeah, the HT is a general AOE damage caster that even has a good spell for countering energy units and can morph into another essential protoss unit. Its an unit that will always be worth its cost if you can afford it in your army.
The ghost is strictly an anti-caster ever since the snipe nerf and does very little outside that niche, nuking maybe. You build ghosts to counter large numbers of casters only.
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On December 17 2013 20:19 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 19:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:
I don't say this is reliable at the moment, but that the Ghost is so much more one dimensional than the ht is just bs. Because?
I guess i argued more about the semantics of "one dimensional" , the ghost itself would have much potential, the cost for that is just too high i guess.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
I'd actually like to see the Dark Archon back. I'm not sure what abilities I'd stick on it, possibly feedback and Maelstrom again and give HTs something else.
The model and lore make it too damn cool. It also makes a Dark Shrine something that feels a bit more fleshed out.
It might be broken for all I know. Having storm, maelstorm and feedback split across multiple units could make things interesting, and more control-based. HTs can deal their direct damage, DAs would be more of a support caster. It also makes the caster dance in TvP a bit more interesting positionally.
Just throwing some ideas out, don't kill me folks :p
I like gate + caster armies in PvT, they feel a lot more fair and Skill-based than Collosus comps, from both sides.
There is little you can do as a Terran against a critical number of Collosus if you've misjudged Viking numbers. As a Protoss if he's got a ton of Vikings to wipe your Collosus out there's little you can do as well.
Pure Temp/Gate vs Bio and Ghosts it feels certainly that sheer control and positioning are definitely rewarded more
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Pls make 2 ghosts mergeable to thor. Simply. 2 ghost=thor. Same as archon.
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I've seen a few good pro Terrans use Nuke in big macro games to hit 4th bases that the P has cannoned up. With the whole army dance going on it's quite difficult to find the red dot and deal with the nuke because you risk fucking up and taking a bad engagement with your main army.
I've also seen ghosts used to EMP enemy Medivacs in TvT and to nuke PFs as well as to force an unsiege on a tank line.
Ghosts/Nuke are a lot more useful than people think they are. it's not just the "anti HT"
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On December 17 2013 23:42 SeXyBaCk wrote:
Pls make 2 ghosts mergeable to thor. Simply. 2 ghost=thor. Same as archon.
Haha, good one.
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EPT
