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On December 15 2013 05:28 Iron_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 02:26 Ana_ wrote:On December 15 2013 01:29 Iron_ wrote:
They obviously don't need the cannon to do normal builds. I want to see you defend terran turbo boost drops without it. This is one of the sillier arguments I hear about getting rid of the broken nexus cannon. Here are the various things you can defend drops with. 1) Warp in units 2) Templar with feedback to instantly kill/hurt and make usless the medivacs 3) Cannons (which shoot both air and ground, you actually can build those) 4) Phoenix (you can open with an oracle then go into 2-3 phoenix for map control/drop control) Basically 1-2 cannons and 1 templar plus warp in OWNS any medivac drop that isn't a doom drop. I don't understand why people try and make this argument, it holds no water.
Yeah listing alternatives does not change that Protoss' are relying on PO for dropdefense and taking it away does affect how Protoss has to play against drops.
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United States473 Posts
On December 15 2013 05:28 Iron_ wrote:
This is one of the sillier arguments I hear about getting rid of the broken nexus cannon. Here are the various things you can defend drops with.
1) Warp in units
2) Templar with feedback to instantly kill/hurt and make usless the medivacs
3) Cannons (which shoot both air and ground, you actually can build those)
4) Phoenix (you can open with an oracle then go into 2-3 phoenix for map control/drop control)
Basically 1-2 cannons and 1 templar plus warp in OWNS any medivac drop that isn't a doom drop. I don't understand why people try and make this argument, it holds no water.
Ok, no. If you get rid of "broken nexus cannon" Protoss has ONE opening: 1 gate FE into 3-4 gates into robo. Stargate is suicidal without overcharge, a simple 2 rax kills you, let alone any kind of 1 base cheese.
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What does TL think about a possible Thor buff like this: Thor anti-air attacks now slow target units (like marauder does to ground units). This way it would be possible for stimmed marines to catch some of the affected mutas therefore making it easier for terran to keep the muta count at a reasonable level. Mass muta seems kinda OP tbh.
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Turrets should get +damage against biological like Spores do, how do people feel about this change to help with the growing mass muta trend in TvZ?
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On December 15 2013 08:08 Frex wrote:
Engineering bay should get +damage against biological like Spores do, how do people feel about this change to help with the growing mass muta trend in TvZ?
would rather see that they reduce buidling armor research time (140 s.. wtf) and also put it in armory or even in CC
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On December 15 2013 08:08 Frex wrote:
Engineering bay should get +damage against biological like Spores do, how do people feel about this change to help with the growing mass muta trend in TvZ?
I assume you mean turrets but they already got the advantage that they can be repaired. Increasing their damage as well would make you too against safe mutas.
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On December 15 2013 08:50 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 08:08 Frex wrote:
Engineering bay should get +damage against biological like Spores do, how do people feel about this change to help with the growing mass muta trend in TvZ? I assume you mean turrets but they already got the advantage that they can be repaired. Increasing their damage as well would make you too against safe mutas.
Yes, I meant turrets. Now I don't agree that repair makes any difference when I think of mass muta that I was talking about (25+ mutas).
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A simple nerf to muta regen should do, something like 1 hit point regenerated every 2 or 2.25 seconds instead of 1 per second as of now (it's 1 every ~3,7 second for the rest of Zerg units).
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On December 15 2013 08:27 Fjodorov wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 08:08 Frex wrote:
Engineering bay should get +damage against biological like Spores do, how do people feel about this change to help with the growing mass muta trend in TvZ? would rather see that they reduce buidling armor research time (140 s.. wtf) and also put it in armory or even in CC
Moving building armor to the CC and reducing the build time would actually be a pretty cool change.
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On December 15 2013 07:41 Xequecal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 05:28 Iron_ wrote:
This is one of the sillier arguments I hear about getting rid of the broken nexus cannon. Here are the various things you can defend drops with.
1) Warp in units
2) Templar with feedback to instantly kill/hurt and make usless the medivacs
3) Cannons (which shoot both air and ground, you actually can build those)
4) Phoenix (you can open with an oracle then go into 2-3 phoenix for map control/drop control)
Basically 1-2 cannons and 1 templar plus warp in OWNS any medivac drop that isn't a doom drop. I don't understand why people try and make this argument, it holds no water. Ok, no. If you get rid of "broken nexus cannon" Protoss has ONE opening: 1 gate FE into 3-4 gates into robo. Stargate is suicidal without overcharge, a simple 2 rax kills you, let alone any kind of 1 base cheese.
This is what I should have said. I am all up for nerfing MC:s offensive capabilities, to make all ins less stronger (let's be honest, this is what pisses people off, toss cheeze). We want macro games, instead of one base all ins or something?!
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On December 15 2013 09:14 TheDwf wrote:
A simple nerf to muta regen should do, something like 1 hit point regenerated every 2 or 2.25 seconds instead of 1 per second as of now (it's 1 every ~3,7 second for the rest of Zerg units).
I've been wanting that for a while, I just don't understand why the muta regen was even implemented in the first place.
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On December 15 2013 09:23 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 09:14 TheDwf wrote:
A simple nerf to muta regen should do, something like 1 hit point regenerated every 2 or 2.25 seconds instead of 1 per second as of now (it's 1 every ~3,7 second for the rest of Zerg units). I've been wanting that for a while, I just don't understand why the muta regen was even implemented in the first place.
Making things easier/more forgiving to promote harass (Medivacs, Mutalisks, Oracles, Warp Prisms) is apparently Blizzard's philosophy...
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On December 15 2013 09:23 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 09:14 TheDwf wrote:
A simple nerf to muta regen should do, something like 1 hit point regenerated every 2 or 2.25 seconds instead of 1 per second as of now (it's 1 every ~3,7 second for the rest of Zerg units). I've been wanting that for a while, I just don't understand why the muta regen was even implemented in the first place.
It is obviously as counter against window mines.
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actually since im more of a macro player as protoss i dont really care about the nexus cannon i never really use it in PvT but its an important part in PvP right now without the current MSC the whole PvP meta would change again. I use stalkers/cannons or templar to defend drops having observers or good placed pylons to see when the drop comes so that i can react in time to snipe them down like i said i dont really need the msc overcharge and holding off stim timings is still possible because of the slow bubble (forgot name xD) it would be harder and yeah proxy plays need to really deal dmg that way. Like i said im only concerned about the PvP.
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On December 15 2013 07:41 Xequecal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 05:28 Iron_ wrote:
This is one of the sillier arguments I hear about getting rid of the broken nexus cannon. Here are the various things you can defend drops with.
1) Warp in units
2) Templar with feedback to instantly kill/hurt and make usless the medivacs
3) Cannons (which shoot both air and ground, you actually can build those)
4) Phoenix (you can open with an oracle then go into 2-3 phoenix for map control/drop control)
Basically 1-2 cannons and 1 templar plus warp in OWNS any medivac drop that isn't a doom drop. I don't understand why people try and make this argument, it holds no water. Ok, no. If you get rid of "broken nexus cannon" Protoss has ONE opening: 1 gate FE into 3-4 gates into robo. Stargate is suicidal without overcharge, a simple 2 rax kills you, let alone any kind of 1 base cheese.
Wait a second, since when is it a bad thing that a cheesy play can die to another cheesy play? Something cheesy like proxy stargate SHOULD have some vulnerabilities – that's why it's taking a risk when you do it.
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On December 15 2013 10:51 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 07:41 Xequecal wrote:On December 15 2013 05:28 Iron_ wrote:
This is one of the sillier arguments I hear about getting rid of the broken nexus cannon. Here are the various things you can defend drops with.
1) Warp in units
2) Templar with feedback to instantly kill/hurt and make usless the medivacs
3) Cannons (which shoot both air and ground, you actually can build those)
4) Phoenix (you can open with an oracle then go into 2-3 phoenix for map control/drop control)
Basically 1-2 cannons and 1 templar plus warp in OWNS any medivac drop that isn't a doom drop. I don't understand why people try and make this argument, it holds no water. Ok, no. If you get rid of "broken nexus cannon" Protoss has ONE opening: 1 gate FE into 3-4 gates into robo. Stargate is suicidal without overcharge, a simple 2 rax kills you, let alone any kind of 1 base cheese. Wait a second, since when is it a bad thing that a cheesy play can die to another cheesy play? Something cheesy like proxy stargate SHOULD have some vulnerabilities – that's why it's taking a risk when you do it. He's not saying proxy stargate. He's saying opening stargate, period. It's a huge investment and without PO it wouldn't be possible to do safely.
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On December 15 2013 09:23 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 09:14 TheDwf wrote:
A simple nerf to muta regen should do, something like 1 hit point regenerated every 2 or 2.25 seconds instead of 1 per second as of now (it's 1 every ~3,7 second for the rest of Zerg units). I've been wanting that for a while, I just don't understand why the muta regen was even implemented in the first place.
It was introduced during the infestor rampage, when zerfs were laughed at for spending gas into anything that wasnt broodlords/infestors.
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Blizzard wanted faster expos to be possible, so the overcharge helps PvP. +1
Overcharge also kills most forms of early Terran aggression, so the matchup feels frustrating (regardless of balance atm). -1
Solution: Idk I play zerg :D If I really wanted to, I could blinding cloud it, but I don't really need to anyways.
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On December 15 2013 11:23 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2013 09:23 bo1b wrote:On December 15 2013 09:14 TheDwf wrote:
A simple nerf to muta regen should do, something like 1 hit point regenerated every 2 or 2.25 seconds instead of 1 per second as of now (it's 1 every ~3,7 second for the rest of Zerg units). I've been wanting that for a while, I just don't understand why the muta regen was even implemented in the first place. It was introduced during the infestor rampage, when zerfs were laughed at for spending gas into anything that wasnt broodlords/infestors.
lol what. muta regen was introduced at HoTS straight up as a counter to widow mines. Without that and the old window mines going muta was the same as walking blindfolded naked into a minefield. At least with the regen your muta pack didn't instantly became useless. it had nothing to do with broodlord/infestor...
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On December 15 2013 07:58 il_Cattivo wrote:
What does TL think about a possible Thor buff like this: Thor anti-air attacks now slow target units (like marauder does to ground units). This way it would be possible for stimmed marines to catch some of the affected mutas therefore making it easier for terran to keep the muta count at a reasonable level. Mass muta seems kinda OP tbh.
Why people never suggest to get rid of magic box. Thor counters mutas pretty heavily, the only problem is this trick completely negates splash when sniping thors. I wonder how zerg and protoss would feel if every time bio was about to attack colossi/templar/banelings based army and we pressed Hold and it would be everything auto split in a way that it would be immune to splash.
Zerglings needs to split against banelings early game zvz, marines against any splash and so does protoss in some occasion or when they have no forcefields left. Why mutas has to be different? (please if i'm forgetting some obvious reason why it should be this way, please explain)
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EPT
