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Ana_
Profile Joined May 2012
Finland453 Posts
December 09 2013 18:42 GMT
#16441
On December 10 2013 03:09 TeeTS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2013 02:44 ETisME wrote:
I personally think it's good for protoss to have early game harassment options, mothership core zealot stalker pressure is one of my favourite opening to watch.

We didn't really have terran doing any economical harassment before medivac in wol so this makes the matchup a bit more dynamic.

All it needs is a tweak to the power of mothership core blink stalker contain and proxy oracle and we might have better games overall.
Nexus cannon is fine. I think time warp is a much bigger problem


2rax Marine/Marauder pressure was a thing in WoL, could end games, could be a strong pressure, could transition into normal games, could fail hard. We had some pre stim marine pressures to kill sentries and so on. Protoss had to be scared of 1base allins and tank based 2base pushes. There was a large variety of what you could do with terran early on. Hell, even Banshee openers where a thing! Now you have nothing. Widow mine drops... I see them over and over again, but all they seem to do is, getting defended with no problem and then maybe making the protoss to be overconfident.
Widow mines don´t even kill that many probes anymore, if they go off in a mineral line.


So basicly, match-up has turned upside down? Hopefully there can be middle ground somewhere...
Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.
Snusmumriken
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden1717 Posts
December 09 2013 19:11 GMT
#16442
On December 10 2013 03:42 Ana_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2013 03:09 TeeTS wrote:
On December 10 2013 02:44 ETisME wrote:
I personally think it's good for protoss to have early game harassment options, mothership core zealot stalker pressure is one of my favourite opening to watch.

We didn't really have terran doing any economical harassment before medivac in wol so this makes the matchup a bit more dynamic.

All it needs is a tweak to the power of mothership core blink stalker contain and proxy oracle and we might have better games overall.
Nexus cannon is fine. I think time warp is a much bigger problem


2rax Marine/Marauder pressure was a thing in WoL, could end games, could be a strong pressure, could transition into normal games, could fail hard. We had some pre stim marine pressures to kill sentries and so on. Protoss had to be scared of 1base allins and tank based 2base pushes. There was a large variety of what you could do with terran early on. Hell, even Banshee openers where a thing! Now you have nothing. Widow mine drops... I see them over and over again, but all they seem to do is, getting defended with no problem and then maybe making the protoss to be overconfident.
Widow mines don´t even kill that many probes anymore, if they go off in a mineral line.


So basicly, match-up has turned upside down? Hopefully there can be middle ground somewhere...


No. No no no no no. Protoss has always had one base plays availible, the difference now is that terran has none and that the protoss one base allins are now no longer allins but early game pressures.
Amove for Aiur
Wingblade
Profile Joined April 2012
United States1806 Posts
December 09 2013 19:28 GMT
#16443
On December 10 2013 04:11 Snusmumriken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2013 03:42 Ana_ wrote:
On December 10 2013 03:09 TeeTS wrote:
On December 10 2013 02:44 ETisME wrote:
I personally think it's good for protoss to have early game harassment options, mothership core zealot stalker pressure is one of my favourite opening to watch.

We didn't really have terran doing any economical harassment before medivac in wol so this makes the matchup a bit more dynamic.

All it needs is a tweak to the power of mothership core blink stalker contain and proxy oracle and we might have better games overall.
Nexus cannon is fine. I think time warp is a much bigger problem


2rax Marine/Marauder pressure was a thing in WoL, could end games, could be a strong pressure, could transition into normal games, could fail hard. We had some pre stim marine pressures to kill sentries and so on. Protoss had to be scared of 1base allins and tank based 2base pushes. There was a large variety of what you could do with terran early on. Hell, even Banshee openers where a thing! Now you have nothing. Widow mine drops... I see them over and over again, but all they seem to do is, getting defended with no problem and then maybe making the protoss to be overconfident.
Widow mines don´t even kill that many probes anymore, if they go off in a mineral line.


So basicly, match-up has turned upside down? Hopefully there can be middle ground somewhere...


No. No no no no no. Protoss has always had one base plays availible, the difference now is that terran has none and that the protoss one base allins are now no longer allins but early game pressures.


Protoss didn't have much in the way of viable 1 base options in Wings. Blink + obs as a surprise gimmick on really good blink maps(which results in them being awful macro maps). Void ray all ins if you were Genius(and really only him). And that was about it
PartinG fanboy to the max, Rain/Squirtle/Dear/Scarlett/Bbyong are cool too. I don't always watch Dota2 but when I do I have no clue what's going on. GOGO POWER RANGERS
Wulfen
Profile Joined December 2010
35 Posts
December 09 2013 19:28 GMT
#16444
On December 07 2013 21:12 Ghanburighan wrote:
Remember that I wrote that Asus Rog NorthCon would be unrepresentative because it's a clearly T favoured tournament with Inno, MMA and Jjakji (and the best foreign T, lol).

Well, scratch that. MMA and Jjakji go out to foreigners. Inno loses to Life but still makes it to the Ro8. Lucifron once again didn't pick up a map. I'm getting late 2012 shudders.

Although, the stats are a bit silly to do. The win percentages show foreigners zergs and Protosses slightly ahead against mostly Korean terrans. There just aren't enough foreign T left to show much. Lucifron and Wulfen were at Asus and contributed 6 map losses to the statistics.

Another silly thing is that Inno might still win the tournament because it's bloody Innovation, imo the best player in the world (at worst, 3rd Terran in the world) and people will turn around and say that the game is fine, despite the overall picture.



Thanks u quote me. But I think when u take me to balanced discussion your arguements will be destroyed as ice-cream on a hot cooking-plate.^^
Snusmumriken
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden1717 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-09 19:44:54
December 09 2013 19:44 GMT
#16445
On December 10 2013 04:28 Wingblade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2013 04:11 Snusmumriken wrote:
On December 10 2013 03:42 Ana_ wrote:
On December 10 2013 03:09 TeeTS wrote:
On December 10 2013 02:44 ETisME wrote:
I personally think it's good for protoss to have early game harassment options, mothership core zealot stalker pressure is one of my favourite opening to watch.

We didn't really have terran doing any economical harassment before medivac in wol so this makes the matchup a bit more dynamic.

All it needs is a tweak to the power of mothership core blink stalker contain and proxy oracle and we might have better games overall.
Nexus cannon is fine. I think time warp is a much bigger problem


2rax Marine/Marauder pressure was a thing in WoL, could end games, could be a strong pressure, could transition into normal games, could fail hard. We had some pre stim marine pressures to kill sentries and so on. Protoss had to be scared of 1base allins and tank based 2base pushes. There was a large variety of what you could do with terran early on. Hell, even Banshee openers where a thing! Now you have nothing. Widow mine drops... I see them over and over again, but all they seem to do is, getting defended with no problem and then maybe making the protoss to be overconfident.
Widow mines don´t even kill that many probes anymore, if they go off in a mineral line.


So basicly, match-up has turned upside down? Hopefully there can be middle ground somewhere...


No. No no no no no. Protoss has always had one base plays availible, the difference now is that terran has none and that the protoss one base allins are now no longer allins but early game pressures.


Protoss didn't have much in the way of viable 1 base options in Wings. Blink + obs as a surprise gimmick on really good blink maps(which results in them being awful macro maps). Void ray all ins if you were Genius(and really only him). And that was about it


Immortal push. And im not saying we should go back to wol, im saying terran needs options too.
Amove for Aiur
larse
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
1611 Posts
December 10 2013 02:48 GMT
#16446
[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]
Pirfiktshon
Profile Joined June 2013
United States1072 Posts
December 10 2013 02:57 GMT
#16447
Iarse whoa don't post facts.... the protoss players will grab their torch and pitchforks to end you.... talk about how you are posting facts that you are stating.... LOLOLOL Sorry I had to <3

These stats are crazy lol showing exactly what i was talking about the representation of the Terran in GM.....
Kevin_Sorbo
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada3217 Posts
December 10 2013 03:00 GMT
#16448
dat race distribution -_-

soon you will have to modify the scale to represent the amount of P in GM league!
The mind is like a parachute, it doesnt work unless its open. - Zappa
bo1b
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Australia12814 Posts
December 10 2013 03:04 GMT
#16449
I wish they removed the widow mine nerf, it was getting so exciting to watch tvz with really good zergs and terrans on either side. I somewhat feel that without a new style there won't be another innovation vs drg until lotv unless something changes.
NoobCrunch
Profile Joined December 2011
79 Posts
December 10 2013 03:09 GMT
#16450
On December 10 2013 12:00 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
dat race distribution -_-

soon you will have to modify the scale to represent the amount of P in GM league!


protoss players are better
hansonslee
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States2027 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-10 03:11:28
December 10 2013 03:11 GMT
#16451
Seed's # 1 fan!!! #ForVengeance
hansonslee
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States2027 Posts
December 10 2013 03:11 GMT
#16452
On December 10 2013 12:04 bo1b wrote:
I wish they removed the widow mine nerf, it was getting so exciting to watch tvz with really good zergs and terrans on either side. I somewhat feel that without a new style there won't be another innovation vs drg until lotv unless something changes.


MMMM is still a very popular composition. Haven't you recently watched JD vs. Innovation in ASUS ROG?
Seed's # 1 fan!!! #ForVengeance
Kevin_Sorbo
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada3217 Posts
December 10 2013 03:13 GMT
#16453
On December 10 2013 12:09 NoobCrunch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2013 12:00 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
dat race distribution -_-

soon you will have to modify the scale to represent the amount of P in GM league!


protoss players are better


oh my bad, I stand corrected.
The mind is like a parachute, it doesnt work unless its open. - Zappa
Chaggi
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1936 Posts
December 10 2013 03:27 GMT
#16454
On December 10 2013 12:11 hansonslee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2013 12:04 bo1b wrote:
I wish they removed the widow mine nerf, it was getting so exciting to watch tvz with really good zergs and terrans on either side. I somewhat feel that without a new style there won't be another innovation vs drg until lotv unless something changes.


MMMM is still a very popular composition. Haven't you recently watched JD vs. Innovation in ASUS ROG?


Cause tanks are lol

They've only been good for timings in every MU other than TvT
Qwerty85
Profile Joined June 2012
Croatia5536 Posts
December 10 2013 07:35 GMT
#16455
On December 10 2013 12:13 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2013 12:09 NoobCrunch wrote:
On December 10 2013 12:00 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
dat race distribution -_-

soon you will have to modify the scale to represent the amount of P in GM league!


protoss players are better


oh my bad, I stand corrected.


Yeah, you know that psionic powers and telepathy. All protoss players drain knowledge and skills from Dear, Rain, Parting, sOs.

Zergs did that through hive mind in WoL.

We just have to find something for terran, technology needs to be invented.
Ana_
Profile Joined May 2012
Finland453 Posts
December 10 2013 08:55 GMT
#16456
On December 10 2013 16:35 Qwerty85 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2013 12:13 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
On December 10 2013 12:09 NoobCrunch wrote:
On December 10 2013 12:00 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
dat race distribution -_-

soon you will have to modify the scale to represent the amount of P in GM league!


protoss players are better


oh my bad, I stand corrected.


Yeah, you know that psionic powers and telepathy. All protoss players drain knowledge and skills from Dear, Rain, Parting, sOs.

Zergs did that through hive mind in WoL.

We just have to find something for terran, technology needs to be invented.


Im sorry, but technology is just not there yet.
Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.
Sabu113
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States11111 Posts
December 10 2013 09:28 GMT
#16457
On December 10 2013 11:57 Pirfiktshon wrote:
Iarse whoa don't post facts.... the protoss players will grab their torch and pitchforks to end you.... talk about how you are posting facts that you are stating.... LOLOLOL Sorry I had to <3

These stats are crazy lol showing exactly what i was talking about the representation of the Terran in GM.....



What? PvT improved post patch.
Biomine is a drunken chick who is on industrial strength amphetamines and would just grab your dick and jerk it as hard and violently as she could while screaming 'OMG FUCK ME', because she saw it in a Sasha Grey video ...-Wombat_Ni
Fjodorov
Profile Joined December 2011
5007 Posts
December 10 2013 10:00 GMT
#16458
On December 10 2013 18:28 Sabu113 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2013 11:57 Pirfiktshon wrote:
Iarse whoa don't post facts.... the protoss players will grab their torch and pitchforks to end you.... talk about how you are posting facts that you are stating.... LOLOLOL Sorry I had to <3

These stats are crazy lol showing exactly what i was talking about the representation of the Terran in GM.....



What? PvT improved post patch.


If we didnt have some of the best terrans in the world taking those wins against foreign protoss at alot of these weekend events it would look very differently.
Ana_
Profile Joined May 2012
Finland453 Posts
December 10 2013 10:05 GMT
#16459
On December 10 2013 19:00 Fjodorov wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2013 18:28 Sabu113 wrote:
On December 10 2013 11:57 Pirfiktshon wrote:
Iarse whoa don't post facts.... the protoss players will grab their torch and pitchforks to end you.... talk about how you are posting facts that you are stating.... LOLOLOL Sorry I had to <3

These stats are crazy lol showing exactly what i was talking about the representation of the Terran in GM.....



What? PvT improved post patch.


If we didnt have some of the best terrans in the world taking those wins against foreign protoss at alot of these weekend events it would look very differently.


So all the other stats are also broken, because best protosses in the world took out foreigners.
Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.
Faust852
Profile Joined February 2012
Luxembourg4004 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-10 10:19:26
December 10 2013 10:18 GMT
#16460
The only problem in this thread is the protoss who doesn't want to admt that there is a problem in the current TvP, and the 45+% Protoss in GM is totally normal for them. Hell even pros protoss say that they don't see the point of the Oracle buff. The MU has a problem right now and the reason is that they are way too safe in the early and they have too powerful cheese in their sleeves. We don't ask for a complet rethinking of the race, just a little change in the MSC, an oracle reverse maybe.
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