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Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 821
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
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ChristianS
United States3278 Posts
On December 09 2013 13:30 saddaromma wrote: From what I've been watching lately I think protoss is undeniably op right now, if played to its full potential. Luckily, no one manages to do it consistently, therefore providing illusion of balance. I think its due to recent changes which made their early/mid game safer and added some good harassment tools. Now, protoss is not about allin or gimmicks, they actually can play strategically which looks damn scary. Luckily again, there are only few players who do that Dear/Parting, whereas rest still being oldschool protoss MC/sOs/Naniwa, both styles work great, but macro-oriented style is fucking boss right now. What exactly does this mean? Presumably any race is unstoppable if one player is just playing normally and the other is playing their race "to its full potential." Do you mean that when Protoss loses it's generally because they made a mistake? Because I feel like most TvP wins come from Terran outplaying Protoss, not from Protoss making a critical mistake. If anything I'd think most Terran losses come from Terran making a big mistake (not scouting the proxy stargate, not scouting the blink all-in/letting the tech lab researching stim get sniped, clumping the bio ball and getting stormed) and Protoss capitalizing. | ||
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painkilla
United States695 Posts
On December 09 2013 09:51 RampancyTW wrote: Hellbats 2-shot zerglings just as well without blueflame as they do with it, so for a main push they're about as effective as they've always been. The "blueflame nerf killed hellbat pushes vs. z" myth is about as mythy as it gets. I would also agree with a transformation servos cost reduction. It's an underused ability with extremely limited combat utility, so as far as I'm concerned there's no real point to having it cost so much. Given the tech lab + factory requirement (so double factory required for decent hellion/hellbat reduction), it should help mech far more than bio. Hellbats still 2-shot zerglings, but it takes one hellbat shot + multiple marauder shots to kill a zergling now, so it does weaken the the marauder hellbat pushes. | ||
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Glorfindel!
Sweden1815 Posts
On December 09 2013 12:36 Wombat_NI wrote: Glorfinell's post was pretty nice, I second this. Definitely preferable to some of the more piteous whining for sure Hey, no point in whining without reason, aight? ^^ | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On December 09 2013 17:22 Glorfindel! wrote: Hey, no point in whining without reason, aight? ^^ but that's so much more EFFORTTTT | ||
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Satiinifi
Finland192 Posts
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
On December 09 2013 19:30 Satiinifi wrote: I heard its soon time to celebrate 100 players in eu gm play protoss, david kim buys teh drinks for good success! What took them so long? :o All in or extreme greed is the way of P atm. Sometimes T holds and sometimes T walks up with stim timing and kills the P who is baffled by the fact he couldnt hold with 2 stalkers 1 zealot and MsC. I fear the day P finds out they dont have to be so extremely greedy and give free wins, and when P learns to use chrono efficiently even after 10 min mark. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 09 2013 19:30 Satiinifi wrote: I heard its soon time to celebrate 100 players in eu gm play protoss, david kim buys teh drinks for good success! They drink terran tears. Terran Master players w(h)ine enough to feed the whole protoss population. | ||
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Ana_
Finland453 Posts
On December 09 2013 20:22 Big J wrote: They drink terran tears. Terran Master players whine enough to feed the whole protoss population. Their tears are deliciously salty! | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
A lot of ex-WC3 players, of which there are many in EU plumped for Protoss with the switch. I mean this is nothing new surely? | ||
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
The Kor ladder is inundated with Terran GMs just simply they look at it as where can I get the most return with the most amount of effort.... which is Terran. Terran has the most rewarding micro ... lol | ||
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Snusmumriken
Sweden1717 Posts
On December 09 2013 22:49 Pirfiktshon wrote: I think of it this way. Which race are you going to get the highest return with the least amount of effort... and thats why there are so many high level protoss players in NA ladder and EU..... The Kor ladder is inundated with Terran GMs just simply they look at it as where can I get the most return with the most amount of effort.... which is Terran. Terran has the most rewarding micro ... lol Except the korean GM isnt inundated with terrans. | ||
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RampancyTW
United States577 Posts
On December 09 2013 16:09 painkilla wrote: Pretty negligibly, though, considering that Marauders overkill like crazy.Hellbats still 2-shot zerglings, but it takes one hellbat shot + multiple marauder shots to kill a zergling now, so it does weaken the the marauder hellbat pushes. | ||
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
Except the korean GM isnt inundated with terrans. There is 47 Terrans in Kor There is 43 Terrans in AM There is 40 Terrans in EU I call that inundated  hahaha | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 09 2013 22:49 Pirfiktshon wrote: I think of it this way. Which race are you going to get the highest return with the least amount of effort... and thats why there are so many high level protoss players in NA ladder and EU..... The Kor ladder is inundated with Terran GMs just simply they look at it as where can I get the most return with the most amount of effort.... which is Terran. Terran has the most rewarding micro ... lol Less making up of arguments, more looking at stats: Grandmaster Korea/Taiwan P: 81 Z: 66 T: 51 R: 0 http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/race So what you are actually saying is that the race where you can the most return with the most amount of effort is... Protoss in your opinion. Have fun with your own opinion. | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
"I can't build a turret in my mineral line because u know i'm too busy droppin' mulez and i can't change the only BO i know, but u know i think that PvT is so stale because of protoss, i wish it would be like TvZ, so i'll just make marines, mines and medevacs and a-click, but anyways (someone once told) terran requiers skill so shutup". Nice try, "omgsokilled high masters" terrans EU! But i got an advice for you guys: stim up and slutter-step some more. | ||
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
Seeing how Korea has the highest amount of Terrans than any other realm is Circumstantial proof that there is more Terrans putting in more time in korea than any other place..... | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 09 2013 23:14 Pirfiktshon wrote: Actually it still stands least amount of effort with the highest return is protoss... the fact that there is more protoss about 80-90 vses the 40-50 Terrans in all realms is a strong testimony to that fact.... Seeing how Korea has the highest amount of Terrans than any other realm is Circumstantial proof that there is more Terrans putting in more time in korea than any other place..... what are you talking about? Korea is barely over average (average=47; Korea=51). China has 56. | ||
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 09 2013 23:24 Pirfiktshon wrote: LOL sorry china is a blind spot but i guess their scene is starting to pick up though. Doesn't matter either way the point about Protoss still holds true... and the statement "People choose different races for different reasons so one race is bound to get less" is a BS argument.... its crazy when one race has double the amount represented in a higher league. i can understand a 10-15 variance but not 40-50.... something is wrong..... So let me summarize: You make two statements, which are independend of actual numbers 1) Foreigners play the race which gives the most return for the least effort 2) Koreans play the race which gives the most return for the most effort Then you argue based on those two statements, that due to 1) we can conclude Protoss is the race with the most return for the least effort and upon 2) that Terran is the race with the most return for the most effort. I and others tell you that actually Protoss is the most played race in Korea, upon which you only want to talk about statement 1) anymore. Sorry, but it is simply very obvious that you did not come up with 1) and 2) independendly from the numbers you had in mind, but you just stated 1) and 2) to fit your numbers and your ideas about the races. You did not conclude from the numbers through the statements. You made the statements to let them draw the conclusions you wanted to draw. | ||
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