On October 17 2013 06:22 JustPassingBy wrote: Quick question from a low level player? Is it even possible to snipe every obs of the protoss? I mean if he has a few obs mingling with his collossi, how can you click on it?
Individually
Eh, sorry that video is blocked where I live, can you explain in words how to click on an obs that hides "in" a collossus? :-/
It's a reference to a BW video where BoxeR used medics to "optic flare" the observer stack of a Protoss going carrier (they were all stacked up and hidden underneath carrier sprites and following them much like an observer would follow collosi).
What he's saying is you just do it. The observers will lag behind collosi during movement and you just have to muscle up the micro to snipe them down ^^. Difficult? Yes. Rawwrr!
Yes, I am aware that they will lag behind since they won't accelerate to top speed instantly. But they will only lag behind minimally and catch up soon, since their upgraded speed is much faster than the movement speed of the collosi (2.8125 vs 2.25). So I am seriously wondering how something like that is realistically possible. :-/
The point was that if Boxer can manage to individually select each medic, activate optical flare, and then click each observer for like 8 observers that are hiding behind carriers and each other (how many were there actually? It's hard to tell from the video), then you it's "realistically possible" to right-click one or two of them.
Ah right, the solution is be like Boxer. I don't think that sniping obs is that big of a problem but come on, that analogy is just silly to give to a low level player.
The point was to show how cool SCLegacy's Pimpest Plays was an AWESOME BW thing.
But, more specifically, a lot of the times the only way to do it is to do it.
For example, I like getting 6+ Orbitals in the late game, but instead of saccing workers I use heavy scans to scout and spot observers. Sure my money is low and I need to win one fight or die, but I don't have problems with Observers. I could also just as easily sac scvs and build a bigger army. I'll lose more troops due to the protoss player having an easier time landing storms and feedbacks.
Its a give and take because I am not a good player.
The answer he is looking for is you do it like Taeja does it, where you almost always see the shimmer then scan+target the obs.
No, I totally get it. It's just as a player who's had stuff like "just be like MKP... just be like Boxer..." told to them, it's just not very encouraging and you might as well just not say it at all. Obviously the guy should know it can be done but at his level, I think he maybe wandered in here looking for real advice rather than just a simple "be like one of the best players in BW"
On October 17 2013 06:22 JustPassingBy wrote: Quick question from a low level player? Is it even possible to snipe every obs of the protoss? I mean if he has a few obs mingling with his collossi, how can you click on it?
Eh, sorry that video is blocked where I live, can you explain in words how to click on an obs that hides "in" a collossus? :-/
It's a reference to a BW video where BoxeR used medics to "optic flare" the observer stack of a Protoss going carrier (they were all stacked up and hidden underneath carrier sprites and following them much like an observer would follow collosi).
What he's saying is you just do it. The observers will lag behind collosi during movement and you just have to muscle up the micro to snipe them down ^^. Difficult? Yes. Rawwrr!
Yes, I am aware that they will lag behind since they won't accelerate to top speed instantly. But they will only lag behind minimally and catch up soon, since their upgraded speed is much faster than the movement speed of the collosi (2.8125 vs 2.25). So I am seriously wondering how something like that is realistically possible. :-/
The point was that if Boxer can manage to individually select each medic, activate optical flare, and then click each observer for like 8 observers that are hiding behind carriers and each other (how many were there actually? It's hard to tell from the video), then you it's "realistically possible" to right-click one or two of them.
Ah right, the solution is be like Boxer. I don't think that sniping obs is that big of a problem but come on, that analogy is just silly to give to a low level player.
I was particularly responding to the word choice "realistically possible." That said what's being discussed isn't all that hard. The issue at hand isn't spotting observers by their shimmer and knowing when to scan for them, it's just being able to attack them when they stack on top of a colossus. The answer given was scan, and then when the colossus moves, the observer will not be on the same spot for a moment and you need to right-click it. If there's multiple observers, you'll have to repeat that process. I thought it was silly to call that not "realistically possible" immediately in response to the famous Boxer clip.
In other words, it wasn't "Just be like Boxer." It was "You're telling yourself this isn't possible, but it is; in fact, here's someone demonstrating that waaaaaaaaaay more than this is possible. So just keep trying, and you'll get it."
On October 17 2013 06:22 JustPassingBy wrote: Quick question from a low level player? Is it even possible to snipe every obs of the protoss? I mean if he has a few obs mingling with his collossi, how can you click on it?
Eh, sorry that video is blocked where I live, can you explain in words how to click on an obs that hides "in" a collossus? :-/
It's a reference to a BW video where BoxeR used medics to "optic flare" the observer stack of a Protoss going carrier (they were all stacked up and hidden underneath carrier sprites and following them much like an observer would follow collosi).
What he's saying is you just do it. The observers will lag behind collosi during movement and you just have to muscle up the micro to snipe them down ^^. Difficult? Yes. Rawwrr!
Yes, I am aware that they will lag behind since they won't accelerate to top speed instantly. But they will only lag behind minimally and catch up soon, since their upgraded speed is much faster than the movement speed of the collosi (2.8125 vs 2.25). So I am seriously wondering how something like that is realistically possible. :-/
The point was that if Boxer can manage to individually select each medic, activate optical flare, and then click each observer for like 8 observers that are hiding behind carriers and each other (how many were there actually? It's hard to tell from the video), then you it's "realistically possible" to right-click one or two of them.
Okay, finally got the time to test it out on the unit test map, you can indeed hide an observer inside a collossus, though only if both units are not moving afaik. And an observer who hides inside a collossi is impossible to target.
OUch terran seem to take a big hit.... even without widow mine nerf..... I'm thinking zergs are starting to figure out how to play against it. Well GG off to laddering !
There have been a number of qualifiers and small tournaments recently, IEM, Red Bull, TLMC, etc, and tournaments (IEM VIII) where we've had almost no terrans again. Innovation is still going strong, MMA and Polt do well sometimes. Bomber and Maru beat some people. But that's it. All the other terrans seems to lose so much that we don't even see them. What happened to Bbyong, Flash, Fantasy - Kespa monsters. What happened to the international scene, Happy, Kas, Strelok, Demuslim, Thorzain, Sjow, and others are invisible as they were during broodlord-infestor. Where are those GomTvT terrans like Supernova, Ryung and others.
We are going to have a relatively large number of terrans at Blizzcon, 8/16 (parity would be 5 (one race gets +1) so it's off by 2-3), but most of those positive terran results come from prior seasons. Of all the people trying to get into to the last train to Blizzcon, only Hack was terran, and he had one of the worst chances. In the end, Dear and Revival/Naniwa squeezed in.
I'm rather patient, I wait for a large number of results before I start crying wolf, but we're getting to the point when we once again need to take a closer look at overall winrates. Aligulac looked ok, except that terran is slightly off, and in terms of their performance difference, they are doing way more. But we know that Aligulac takes into account all manner of results. What's the Chaosterran report like? I haven't seen it. What are the last tournament results like?
I'd also be interested to know what would become of the terran winrate when we remove Innovation. That guy is racking up a huge amount of wins in teamleagues, what's the rest of the terran race like?
On November 04 2013 05:22 Ghanburighan wrote: There have been a number of qualifiers and small tournaments recently, IEM, Red Bull, TLMC, etc, and tournaments (IEM VIII) where we've had almost no terrans again. Innovation is still going strong, MMA and Polt do well sometimes. Bomber and Maru beat some people. But that's it. All the other terrans seems to lose so much that we don't even see them. What happened to Bbyong, Flash, Fantasy - Kespa monsters. What happened to the international scene, Happy, Kas, Strelok, Demuslim, Thorzain, Sjow, and others are invisible as they were during broodlord-infestor. Where are those GomTvT terrans like Supernova, Ryung and others.
We are going to have a relatively large number of terrans at Blizzcon, 8/16 (parity would be 5 (one race gets +1) so it's off by 2-3), but most of those positive terran results come from prior seasons. Of all the people trying to get into to the last train to Blizzcon, only Hack was terran, and he had one of the worst chances. In the end, Dear and Revival/Naniwa squeezed in.
I'm rather patient, I wait for a large number of results before I start crying wolf, but we're getting to the point when we once again need to take a closer look at overall winrates. Aligulac looked ok, except that terran is slightly off, and in terms of their performance difference, they are doing way more. But we know that Aligulac takes into account all manner of results. What's the Chaosterran report like? I haven't seen it. What are the last tournament results like?
I'd also be interested to know what would become of the terran winrate when we remove Innovation. That guy is racking up a huge amount of wins in teamleagues, what's the rest of the terran race like?
As a Terran
PURE WIN RATES IS NOT INDICATIVE OF BALANCE. You need to take into consideration so many factors like types of tournaments, relative opponent levels and how players win or lose.
looks quite good, i still think PvT needs a bit of work but its far away from imbalanced.
I really hope that Blizzard is re thinking the Patch with the WM nerf in exchange for a Tank buff. It´s not about imbalance or something but it could potentially change the pace of the game to the worse. The last time they did this was the Queen buff which lead to BL/Infestor, so i hope they are carful with that.
If that's true then balance looks great. Too bad there is so little variety of play though, especially Terran is dire in 2/3 MUs. Need to have mech viable ASAP at least in TvZ.
If that's true then balance looks great. Too bad there is so little variety of play though, especially Terran is dire in 2/3 MUs. Need to have mech viable ASAP at least in TvZ.
2/3 mu's? pretty sure 2/2 as it would be incredibly for TvT to favour anyone.
If that's true then balance looks great. Too bad there is so little variety of play though, especially Terran is dire in 2/3 MUs. Need to have mech viable ASAP at least in TvZ.
2/3 mu's? pretty sure 2/2 as it would be incredibly for TvT to favour anyone.
Mech is something that needs to be made viable soon imo. tvz and tvp are stale and boring. TvT is still really nice as everything from bio to mech to sky terran is possible unlike other match ups. Problem is, with mech, (and this what i hope blizzards aim is) is they have to go slow with the changes as big changes will make it super op as mech at end game is increadably cost efficient. Watch some of the pro meching terrans and even now when they get to end game its redicoulous how impossible it is to break. I know zergs are already having a hard time with it and certain maps.
Also it is a super turtle style so with blizz trying to make exciting games, mech is their biggest challenge in terms of balance and spectator value (well 2nd biggest thing next to toss )
Starcraft 2 is currently the most balanced its ever been.
My hope for mech is that it becomes viable as an alternative to bio without replacing it, and doesn't just rely on terran air lategame being OP (not a fan of the slow moving BC/raven army)
On November 04 2013 19:37 Green_25 wrote: Starcraft 2 is currently the most balanced its ever been.
My hope for mech is that it becomes viable as an alternative to bio without replacing it, and doesn't just rely on terran air lategame being OP (not a fan of the slow moving BC/raven army)
Terran lategame air might have been OP in WoL, I don't think it counts any more in HotS. Vipers and Tempests make it so the lategame BC/raven army is nowhere near as good as it used to be.
On November 13 2013 04:10 purgerinho wrote: i just can't play against widow mines at platinum level, i'm too slow... noobs can beat me without any problem... frustrating..
On November 13 2013 04:10 purgerinho wrote: i just can't play against widow mines at platinum level, i'm too slow... noobs can beat me without any problem... frustrating..
You're a noob yourself so I see no problem there.
His post has to be a troll given the recent patch.
On November 13 2013 04:10 purgerinho wrote: i just can't play against widow mines at platinum level, i'm too slow... noobs can beat me without any problem... frustrating..
You're a noob yourself so I see no problem there.
i'm not troll and i am a noob but there are bigger noobs than me that just couldn't beat me in normal stat of the game... widow mines are just frustrating and that is it, that nerf is not a big deal as (for example) infestors nerf (they are useless now)..
this is a balance thread and i can put my frustrations here... i hate widow mines from the start and they are destroying the game - it is my opinion and it will be changed when WM will become more expensive or harder to get..
players on highest level (master and gm) have problems with protoss because protoss is most developed race (protoss > skill) but on lower level terrans > skill...
On November 13 2013 04:10 purgerinho wrote: i just can't play against widow mines at platinum level, i'm too slow... noobs can beat me without any problem... frustrating..
You're a noob yourself so I see no problem there.
i'm not troll and i am a noob but there are bigger noobs than me that just couldn't beat me in normal stat of the game... widow mines are just frustrating and that is it, that nerf is not a big deal as (for example) infestors nerf (they are useless now)..
this is a balance thread and i can put my frustrations here... i hate widow mines from the start and they are destroying the game - it is my opinion and it will be changed when WM will become more expensive or harder to get..
players on highest level (master and gm) have problems with protoss because protoss is most developed race (protoss > skill) but on lower level terrans > skill...
As it stands your post is just a series of assertions, and I don't think we're especially inclined to take you as an expert source, so you'll have to elaborate and defend your claims to be taken somewhat seriously. Some questions:
-Widow mines are frustrating in what situation? Are they being used as harass, or being left around the map, or being used in a big engagement? What could you do to negate their advantage so a further nerf wasn't necessary, and why shouldn't you be expected to do that?
-How are widow mines destroying the game? Just because you think they're imbalanced, or do you also disagree with the game design in some way? If you disagree with the game design, why would making them more expensive or harder to get (I assume you mean bringing back the armory requirement) make them better game design?
-What on earth do you mean by "most developed race"? Are you saying Protoss is imbalanced at high level (citation needed), or are you somehow arguing Protoss players are smarter and have figured out the game more, so that's why they're winning (don't bother citing, it's an absurd claim)?
EPT
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