EPTDesignated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 781
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On November 19 2013 16:32 FabledIntegral wrote: How long have Thor's attacks prioritized ground over air? Annoying as shit, I've used Thors for a while vs ling/bling/muta and now they are wasting their time attacking zerglings instead of attacking the mutas with splash. Arghh. Always I think, they fixed them targeting medivacs at one point but other than that they seem to randomly target ground and air. At least I am hotwired to grab my thors and shift-click through the mutas in any engagement right after I've done the same with my tanks against any banes. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On November 19 2013 17:00 Bagi wrote: Always I think, they fixed them targeting medivacs at one point but other than that they seem to randomly target ground and air. At least I am hotwired to grab my thors and shift-click through the mutas in any engagement right after I've done the same with my tanks against any banes. No, it's never been random. It's always targeted air as a priority, although they did patch it to not auto-target nonaggressive air units, such as overlords, medivacs, etc. Throughout all of WoL and part of HOTS I believe it always targeted aggressive air, until recently. | ||
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Crackpot
58 Posts
On November 19 2013 06:50 Pirfiktshon wrote: I'd ask what you are smoking but I think your name says it all LOL. None of these changes actually effect High Level / Top Tier Games in a good way. Have you played TvP? Mamma core kills aggression in the early game. This would just make protoss late game that much more powerful and hard to stop as a core unit would take longer to build Protoss can snowball otu of control that much easier.... Nerfing Colo Speed wouldn't make that much of a difference other than stopping some 3 Colo pushes and things of that nature in lower tier games.... I don't think Mamma core is a "garant" for protoss to survive early game, anyway if it is on a GM-level of play I don' think its a pretty good solution to depend the survivability of a race by only 1 unit. You really think "slower" collossi wouldn't effecht High level of play in a good way? I think i have some good points. I think Colossi are pretty easy to play right now. Imagine how Terrans or Zerg have to play their siege-units. If you slower them down it would affect lots of things: - Protoss thinks twice before they engage larger armies - Attacking with Colossi takes more positioning qualities in high level of play - keeping them near cliffs - Timebomb, Mass teleport would become much more important (for retreat) - Increasing the importance of Mamma core in lategame - Warp prism could be used for transporting Colossi (Maybe decreasing the capacity of colossi to fit 2 of them in 1 warpprism) | ||
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On November 19 2013 20:06 Crackpot wrote: I don't think Mamma core is a "garant" for protoss to survive early game, anyway if it is on a GM-level of play I don' think its a pretty good solution to depend the survivability of a race by only 1 unit. You really think "slower" collossi wouldn't effecht High level of play in a good way? I think i have some good points. I think Colossi are pretty easy to play right now. Imagine how Terrans or Zerg have to play their siege-units. If you slower them down it would affect lots of things: - Protoss thinks twice before they engage larger armies - Attacking with Colossi takes more positioning qualities in high level of play - keeping them near cliffs - Timebomb, Mass teleport would become much more important (for retreat) - Increasing the importance of Mamma core in lategame - Warp prism could be used for transporting Colossi (Maybe decreasing the capacity of colossi to fit 2 of them in 1 warpprism) You must never have had a speedprism collosus harass you  ?On the other hand, such a thing would be a pleasure to shoot down :O So much moneys =D | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 19 2013 17:17 FabledIntegral wrote: No, it's never been random. It's always targeted air as a priority, although they did patch it to not auto-target nonaggressive air units, such as overlords, medivacs, etc. Throughout all of WoL and part of HOTS I believe it always targeted aggressive air, until recently. I don't think it prioritized Air in general. I think they just happen to attack mutalisks more often, since they are close to the Thors when magicboxing (and proximity plays a role when autochoosing targets) and Thors have more weaponrange on air than on ground, so they lock on an airtarget first in case mutas and zerglings are equally close to the Thor. But I think when you lead with the ling/bling, they will always prioritize the ling/bling, unless they kill one and the next closest target is a mutalisk. | ||
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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
On November 19 2013 20:32 Big J wrote: I don't think it prioritized Air in general. I think they just happen to attack mutalisks more often, since they are close to the Thors when magicboxing (and proximity plays a role when autochoosing targets) and Thors have more weaponrange on air than on ground, so they lock on an airtarget first in case mutas and zerglings are equally close to the Thor. But I think when you lead with the ling/bling, they will always prioritize the ling/bling, unless they kill one and the next closest target is a mutalisk. I know for a fact Thors used to target Broodlords over roaches, because I used it to obliterate mass thor compositions. A handful of broodlords would soak up AA fire while the roaches went to town entirely unopposed. Has that changed? | ||
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
On November 19 2013 20:06 Crackpot wrote: I don't think Mamma core is a "garant" for protoss to survive early game, anyway if it is on a GM-level of play I don' think its a pretty good solution to depend the survivability of a race by only 1 unit. You really think "slower" collossi wouldn't effecht High level of play in a good way? I think i have some good points. I think Colossi are pretty easy to play right now. Imagine how Terrans or Zerg have to play their siege-units. If you slower them down it would affect lots of things: - Protoss thinks twice before they engage larger armies - Attacking with Colossi takes more positioning qualities in high level of play - keeping them near cliffs - Timebomb, Mass teleport would become much more important (for retreat) - Increasing the importance of Mamma core in lategame - Warp prism could be used for transporting Colossi (Maybe decreasing the capacity of colossi to fit 2 of them in 1 warpprism) Ofcourse Colo are easy to play LOL They are an A-Move with no Ground equivalent they are the BW tank just WAYYYY more Mobile..... I'm all for a Nerf to protoss' AOE but I just don't see this effecting much. My proposition with a long description was to make the Animation for Storm .5 Seconds longer with .25 in Channel of the casting and .25 in the Storm animation before it strikes... I think this does a couple things. Storms become harder to land so people that are better will get rewarded more for better play and Terran will get rewarded more for paying attention to it and give more opportunity to defend against it. Right now its a Point and Click massive damage with 3 Templars with 150 Energy you can lay waste to an entire army...... | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
I don't like how Colossi are. It doesn't really make sense because the other race's siege units all have a siege time, whereas Colossi just seemingly promotes a-move. If there was a way that Colossi needs to be set up and/or micro managed more, w/ a gateway buff, it could be a lot more fun to watch and play against | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
Another good example is the immortal that was supposed to be a frontline "tank", then came terrible terrible damage and that role went to crap too. I just can't help but to look at protoss, Blizzards original designs for them and feel a little amused. | ||
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
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ffadicted
United States3545 Posts
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On November 19 2013 22:47 ffadicted wrote: Why is it almost 2014 and people are STILL trying to compare colossi to siege units when they're not and have never been? lol a 6 to 9 range unit does massive damage is not supposed to be in direct engagements HM SOUNDS LIKE A SIEGE UNIT TO ME | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 19 2013 23:00 Chaggi wrote: a 6 to 9 range unit does massive damage is not supposed to be in direct engagements HM SOUNDS LIKE A SIEGE UNIT TO ME ? | ||
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Slydie
1921 Posts
And please fix that mommacore! I win vs every defensive protoss at my level going collos with the viking scv pull, that is perfectly fine for me. Double forge with tech and no units, using the op-nexus to defend anything is not! Remember when 2rax preasurebuilds were an actual threat? Those were the days.... | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
I should've been more clear. It basically means you don't want enemy units to be near cause it's a glass cannon essentially. | ||
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
On November 19 2013 22:47 ffadicted wrote: Why is it almost 2014 and people are STILL trying to compare colossi to siege units when they're not and have never been? lol High DPS at long range and AOE if its not a Siege Weapon than what is it? | ||
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Wingblade
United States1806 Posts
On November 19 2013 23:08 Slydie wrote: Siege units outrange static defense, that is a pretty common definition, collos is a siegeunit. Watch a PvZ with mass spines/spores and you see I am right. And please fix that mommacore! I win vs every defensive protoss at my level going collos with the viking scv pull, that is perfectly fine for me. Double forge with tech and no units, using the op-nexus to defend anything is not! Remember when 2rax preasurebuilds were an actual threat? Those were the days.... 2 rax pressure builds were inherently broken and a consequence of poor game design. They are a lot like some of the allins Terran whine about so much- you could never really be behind from it if you did it right. As a Protoss you had to go 3 gate before any tech, warp in an obscene number of units for that point in the game AND have good force fields. If they pulled SCVs with it, forget defending it you had to pretty much run up to your ramp. But then stim+medivac timings weren't delayed at all because you could start stim after conc shells and be ready for the 10 minute timing all the same. But Protoss tech would be delayed because I needed a bunch of units to defend which ate up my gas to get to my tech needed to hold that push. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 19 2013 23:14 Chaggi wrote: I should've been more clear. It basically means you don't want enemy units to be near cause it's a glass cannon essentially. ok. That makes kindof sense. Though I'd define a siege unit in an RTS game much simpler as a unit that outranges static D and therby be able to "siege". (which in return allows static D to be more efficient than anything else, since there is a mechanism in the game that counters them). | ||
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