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scypio
Poland2127 Posts
On August 08 2013 07:34 Lock0n wrote: Don't speak of the impossible - are there even 7 decent foreigner Terrans in existence? Yeah... kindof: Lucifron, Happy, Dayshi, Strelok.... uhm... Bunny, Kas, Thorzain. I want them to get into WCS eu ro8 in season 3  | ||
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painkilla
United States695 Posts
On August 08 2013 07:34 Lock0n wrote: Don't speak of the impossible - are there even 7 decent foreigner Terrans in existence? + Mvp, MMa , forGG | ||
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GhostOwl
766 Posts
On August 08 2013 05:57 ImperialFist wrote: As a Terran I just want to apologize to every Zerg player out there. TvZ is Terran favored if it goes into a standard macro game. I am aware, I have a conscience. I have no idea how Zerg will be good at this rate, Protoss is completely god-mode vs everything and bio-mine is a bit too strong in TvZ. I am fucking sorry guys T_T You are awesome dude. I didn't have time to read the other lengthy responses at the moment and I can't write a long paragraph but major props for admitting it unlike many other Terrans here. | ||
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Deleted User 132135
702 Posts
On August 08 2013 04:56 hasuguard wrote: Protoss is slightly OP these days, mainly due to storms. Insane Aoe which is quite hard to counter. At least i keep seeing P beeing "too far" behind but still winning. At least I extremely rarely see Z winning after beeing far behind. PvZ usual macro-game is even alright balanced. PvZ all-ins/all-in defense are/is too strong with the new MSC tho. PvT I think is slightly P favoured but still alright. Most problems come from strong MSC too. - changing the MSC abilities would fix alot of troubles in these two. Less nexus cannon time, less bubble size. Maybe some other tech building required for MSC or anything else if needed. - changes of swarmhosts or skytoss can wait and be reviewed after MSC nerf. ZvT is the real issue. Even tiniest pieces of mistakes can set the Z "far behind" and the zerg will not come back from it against pure bio/mine rally macro play while terran mechanics forgive basically everything or even make them benefit from things they actually should suffer from. Offense: 95% of times the Z can only damage the terran if he kills him at a single blow. Every other damage to terran economy/base/expansions does more damage to the Zerg himself than to the Terran due to mass OC/mules. A good example for this was recent Innovation vs Soulkey game where soulkey tried to do damage with banelings to the Terrans economy. Suddenly innovation didnt see banelings rolling in and killing _all_ his scv at the natural. No matter for him as terran is naturally ahead in macro after every kind of action like this and just needs to go on playing a few minutes to build the bio/mine ball and then attack constantly to win with ease. Without any big efforts on using spellcasters or any special unit combinations that need any commitment, high amounts of gas or a little techswitch this is too easy for terran. Its broken in my point of view. Defense: If Zergs don't win or repell 100% of fights vs terran like drops, pushes, hit and runs or containments. they straightly go into this "I have a little disadvantage" setup which turns out to put the terran "far ahead" without any options. | ||
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midnight999
United States257 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11048 Posts
On August 08 2013 09:54 jkim91 wrote: I wish lurkers were brought into the game... I wish zerg had a nice guaranteed dps siegy unit that didn't need too many to be useful but not fantastic in a massive swarm. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On August 08 2013 12:29 Sabu113 wrote: I wish zerg had a nice guaranteed dps siegy unit that didn't need too many to be useful but not fantastic in a massive swarm. You mean swarm hosts? Burrowed Banelings were the supposed solution to the mid-game sneaky lurker plays. But with emphasis on action, "ain't nobody got time for dat." | ||
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AxionSteel
United States7754 Posts
On August 08 2013 04:04 LittleRedBoy wrote: Being up four bases to three, having better upgrades, and a 40 supply lead is truly a terribly played game. Come on, MMA played very poorly in that game. Being able to perform well at the pro level in big fights tvp has always been about unit control, and tbh, MMA just amoved into naniwa and really put up a pretty ordinary engagement. Also I think he lost a ton of workers to harass that were not picked up by the observer during the game. I think there are a lot of issues with TvP, mostly around all the gimmicky allins protoss can do, being totally safe behind the MSC, having terran scared of their lives as they can die to something retarded at any moment, yet being able to switch it up in an instant and going 3 nexus (duckdeok vs lucifron). But that game was nothing indicative of imbalance, MMA was just outplayed. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
Now back to the drawing board, stop the whining.and change your tactics! + Show Spoiler + And for the people who didnt get it or are too lazy to watch the VOD ... SCVs is NOT the critical limitation for a Terran; the PRODUCTION is! Of course you might have to research the Overlord drop upgrades to get to the juicy target, but if it wins you the game .... On August 08 2013 04:08 NarutO wrote: I think it could be that we disagree. I am saying a concave for Terran isn't worth setting up (besides a few occasions) but against chargelot / storm and colossi, what you want to have is actually the ball and good snipes/emp. You need your army together as a Terran army scales a ton. Lots of range units firing at once, Zealots won't close the gap but if they can charge a big concave against only a handful bio everywhere, the Zealots will deal damage. Hopefully I made clear what I meant At least thats personal opinion on that matter The concave rather screwed MMA in his game against Naniwa on Newkirk yesterday, because it allowed the Protoss ball to overwhelm his army in two parts. It is probably only a good idea if you have a very wide and open space to fight on ... just in case the Protoss does have a Sentry or two for some Forcefields. Maybe MMA's controls were bad or his decisions ... the end result was easy to foresee by the laws of DC2: Bigger supply (even in local concentration) beats smaller supply and the larger this difference is the more units the winner will keep. | ||
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Dwayn
Germany949 Posts
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Nowayhoseagear
Canada1 Post
On August 08 2013 08:56 GhostOwl wrote: You are awesome dude. I didn't have time to read the other lengthy responses at the moment and I can't write a long paragraph but major props for admitting it unlike many other Terrans here. As a zerg player I just want to apologise to every Terran player out there. TvZ is NOT terran favoured, we just need to adapt better. I am aware. I have a conscience. I have no idea how Zergs aren't good at this rate. I am fucking sorry guys. But seriously, If you watch good zerg players a lot you will see the adaptations they are making. Any zerg player who thinks they can win by simply defending and droning all the time is wrong. You need to counter attack, set up traps with banelings and hit their scv lines to win. But it is very effective and makes for much more interesting games. Also if you are having trouble with the matchup and you arent pro then you simply need to get better. | ||
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fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
On August 08 2013 13:28 Nowayhoseagear wrote: As a zerg player I just want to apologise to every Terran player out there. TvZ is NOT terran favoured, we just need to adapt better. I am aware. I have a conscience. I have no idea how Zergs aren't good at this rate. I am fucking sorry guys. But seriously, If you watch good zerg players a lot you will see the adaptations they are making. Any zerg player who thinks they can win by simply defending and droning all the time is wrong. You need to counter attack, set up traps with banelings and hit their scv lines to win. But it is very effective and makes for much more interesting games. Also if you are having trouble with the matchup and you arent pro then you simply need to get better. Traps with banelings are not effective as the best they will do is force their weight in scans. If you're ahead it's good to reduce mule usage, but if you're not already ahead, then it doesn't do much. Hitting SCV lines is not very effective with anything but mutas as it's the hardest worker to harass, you're only likely to be harassing with zerglings, and late-game it becomes completely useless as mules make up a larger and larger portion of the workforce | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
So Blizzard nerfs the hellbat and buff the warp prism. In this season, when Protoss is doing well, people say it's a metagame change. So Blizzard will 'wait and see'. By 'wait and see', I mean nothing is gonna happen. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On August 08 2013 13:08 Rabiator wrote: To all the Zerg complaining about Terrans ... watch the game between MMA and Happy on Bel'Shir Vestige from their first set of matches in the Ro16. Both attack the others base at the same time, one going for the third base and wiping it out and the other for the production and killing it. Guess who won ... Now back to the drawing board, stop the whining.and change your tactics! + Show Spoiler + And for the people who didnt get it or are too lazy to watch the VOD ... SCVs is NOT the critical limitation for a Terran; the PRODUCTION is! Of course you might have to research the Overlord drop upgrades to get to the juicy target, but if it wins you the game .... So in a basetrde it's better to kill the enemy base. Attaboy! and now I have a tip for you if you ever struggle vs Zerg: dont destroy your own third base like in MMA vs Idra. woooooooooaaaah. mind is blown, right?! I know it is tempting, because MMA won that game. but it's really not clever! | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On August 08 2013 09:40 LSN wrote: PvZ usual macro-game is even alright balanced. PvZ all-ins/all-in defense are/is too strong with the new MSC tho. PvT I think is slightly P favoured but still alright. Most problems come from strong MSC too. - changing the MSC abilities would fix alot of troubles in these two. Less nexus cannon time, less bubble size. Maybe some other tech building required for MSC or anything else if needed. - changes of swarmhosts or skytoss can wait and be reviewed after MSC nerf. ZvT is the real issue. Even tiniest pieces of mistakes can set the Z "far behind" and the zerg will not come back from it against pure bio/mine rally macro play while terran mechanics forgive basically everything or even make them benefit from things they actually should suffer from. Offense: 95% of times the Z can only damage the terran if he kills him at a single blow. Every other damage to terran economy/base/expansions does more damage to the Zerg himself than to the Terran due to mass OC/mules. A good example for this was recent Innovation vs Soulkey game where soulkey tried to do damage with banelings to the Terrans economy. Suddenly innovation didnt see banelings rolling in and killing _all_ his scv at the natural. No matter for him as terran is naturally ahead in macro after every kind of action like this and just needs to go on playing a few minutes to build the bio/mine ball and then attack constantly to win with ease. Without any big efforts on using spellcasters or any special unit combinations that need any commitment, high amounts of gas or a little techswitch this is too easy for terran. Its broken in my point of view. Defense: If Zergs don't win or repell 100% of fights vs terran like drops, pushes, hit and runs or containments. they straightly go into this "I have a little disadvantage" setup which turns out to put the terran "far ahead" without any options. Are you doing it on purpose? You are raging about the same stuff you did a few pages ago. Various people explained why SoulKey lost the game and in your typical fashion you disappeared and came back a few pages later crying about the same stuff again. Frankly you have no clue about the game and thats why you try to dodge the bullet with simply ignoring facts. Please if you want to discuss further on the soulkey/innovation matter go and read what people wrote and try to understand why he lost. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On August 08 2013 13:12 Dwayn wrote: ooh, all I have to do i wipe out the terran production? Damn, why didn't I think of that. Thanks, you really helped me out there. You don't need to go that far, a mid-game drop sniping the reactors (top priority) and the Terran is royally buggered. They'll be either having 50s of ZERO production (all reactors rebuilt at the same time), or sac one factory/rax's production to take forever to rebuild all the sniped reactors one at a time. Seriously go play a custom with a Terran friend who can build no reactors and see how far ahead you'll be when the first major engagement begins. E.g. 2base timing meeting at first watchtower at 15min | ||
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Sabu113
United States11048 Posts
On August 08 2013 12:43 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: You mean swarm hosts? Burrowed Banelings were the supposed solution to the mid-game sneaky lurker plays. But with emphasis on action, "ain't nobody got time for dat." Swarm hosts are shit in small numbers and aren't guaranteed dps in the same way an attack or a widow mine is "guaranteed" dps. It's hard to figure out a solution but it seems like an obvious problem for TvZ. (Not the biggest fan of stormfungal though I dont think it's anything like MsC bad or anything). | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On August 08 2013 14:26 Big J wrote: So in a basetrde it's better to kill the enemy base. Attaboy! and now I have a tip for you if you ever struggle vs Zerg: dont destroy your own third base like in MMA vs Idra. woooooooooaaaah. mind is blown, right?! I know it is tempting, because MMA won that game. but it's really not clever! Not in a basetrade situation ... IN GENERAL it is better to go for a Terrans PRODUCTION than his ECONOMY. Attacking his economy doesnt hurt him ... killing his production does. MMA could still produce stuff and had a decently sized amount of units at home to defend when Happy was done with the third ... so it wasnt going to go well for him if he had gone for the production and started a basetrade situation. Lots of Zerg have been whining and moaning about how unfair the MULE is ... and my reply is simply: Dont attack the wrong target! | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On August 08 2013 15:06 Sabu113 wrote: Swarm hosts are shit in small numbers and aren't guaranteed dps in the same way an attack or a widow mine is "guaranteed" dps. It's hard to figure out a solution but it seems like an obvious problem for TvZ. (Not the biggest fan of stormfungal though I dont think it's anything like MsC bad or anything). Are they really that bad? Since "everyone" knows how shit they are will they be likely to go after just two random Swarm Hosts buried anywhere? That kind of search takes a lot of attention and this makes them totally worth it! Use them not for their "awesome dps" but as a decoy or even bait for a trap! You just target the Locusts from those two Swarm Hosts at a base (kinda like Zealot runbys maybe?) to draw attention to them. | ||
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Insoleet
France1806 Posts
On August 08 2013 13:32 fdsdfg wrote: Traps with banelings are not effective as the best they will do is force their weight in scans. If you're ahead it's good to reduce mule usage, but if you're not already ahead, then it doesn't do much. Hitting SCV lines is not very effective with anything but mutas as it's the hardest worker to harass, you're only likely to be harassing with zerglings, and late-game it becomes completely useless as mules make up a larger and larger portion of the workforce If a terran uses all his energy in scans and not in mules, guess what ? Your damages to his SCVs by counter-attacking and runby begin to be useful because he doesnt have any mule left ! | ||
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