EPTBut, Major apparently says that everyone in Korea knows MSC is too strong, so that's a relief at least.
Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 591
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Rhaegal
United States678 Posts
But, Major apparently says that everyone in Korea knows MSC is too strong, so that's a relief at least. | ||
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willstertben
427 Posts
woops, yeah i did. that's what i get for just looking for the post with 'corruptor' in it. lol. On July 25 2013 06:10 Rhaegal wrote: I'll be fine with a nerf to the widow mine's aoe, if something is done about Mothership core. That unit is absurd. But, Major apparently says that everyone in Korea knows MSC is too strong, so that's a relief at least. i agree. would lessen my fear of msc being broken in zvp too when protosses learn to properly abuse it (this isn't supposed to mean that i know how to, just saying i am 100% certain msc has a lot of potential yet to be explored in zvp with recall and stuff) but you're probably mainly talking nexus cannon so i dunno. might certainly make roach max attacks viable against super greedy 3rd nexus builds again. | ||
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Green_25
Great Britain696 Posts
Its hard to have a reasonable discussion with zerg players about balance, particularly when most of them are just SK fans who are butthurt he lost to Innovation. I haven't actually seen any real balance suggestions either. Just a bunch of people whining about bio. | ||
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crazyweasel
607 Posts
we all know thought to acheive such OPness innovation is a baller and on top of his game, sick multi-tasking, micro etc. we see the result in foreign tournys : no terran or protoss are able to clutch against KR zergs. | ||
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Green_25
Great Britain696 Posts
On July 25 2013 07:08 crazyweasel wrote: Every one saw soulkey gets 3-0'd by innovation. FIRST GAME he traded efficiently troughout the game yet he lost because marine marauder mines medvac is good agaisnt every composition zerg has. soulkey was clutch yet he lost. we all know thought to acheive such OPness innovation is a baller and on top of his game, sick multi-tasking, micro etc. we see the result in foreign tournys : no terran or protoss are able to clutch against KR zergs. This is exactly what I mean, this post is so biased its unbelievable. And I don't even like Innovation | ||
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willstertben
427 Posts
On July 25 2013 07:08 crazyweasel wrote: we all know thought to acheive such OPness innovation is a baller and on top of his game, sick multi-tasking, micro etc. we see the result in foreign tournys : no terran or protoss are able to clutch against KR zergs. yeah, that's why life (yeah, fucking life) lost against sjow. | ||
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ImperialFist
790 Posts
On July 25 2013 07:23 willstertben wrote: yeah, that's why life (yeah, fucking life) lost against sjow (yeah, fucking sjow. yes once in a while those miracles happen, foreign Zergs beating kr terrans on the other hand is nothing, it happened all the time and no one even gave it a second glance. | ||
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LSN
Germany696 Posts
This is a little bit like c&c where the one party only had to build mammoth tanks to win. Anyway you can to compare it to soccer, where one team has alot of good players and another team not. Of course the one team with the loads of good players is the better team. Is the other team not able to win a match vs it? No, of course it can. Still the one team is better because it has the better players no matter which team won the last 2-3 matches. What you instead say: "blabla if all this was true, terran had 100% winrate..:" really laughable how simple minded these terran guys are and of course noone wants to hear that fruitdealer won the GSL while terran was heavily OP and got nerfed to death afterwards. | ||
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Terrasmith
47 Posts
On July 25 2013 07:23 willstertben wrote: yeah, that's why life (yeah, fucking life) lost against sjow. Life has lost to a lot of people recently; he's not the best example of Korean Zerg at the moment. Soulkey lost game 1 because he lost a lot of lings and banes moving up that ramp. If that didn't happen, he likely would have won. | ||
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PanzerElite
540 Posts
On July 25 2013 07:23 willstertben wrote: yeah, that's why life (yeah, fucking life) lost against sjow. you forgot life also lost vs 2 foreign zergs | ||
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willstertben
427 Posts
On July 25 2013 07:32 Terrasmith wrote: Life has lost to a lot of people recently; he's not the best example of Korean Zerg at the moment. and sjow is the best example of a foreign terran? no offense to sjow but he just isn't very good compared to other terrans. i cheered for sjow in that series and i was really happy for him and foreign starcraft when he won but looking back that just shouldn't ever have happened. all on the back of 65 scv 3 base rally and old hellbats. one of these things got nerfed, i think it's about time the other, arguably even larger issue with the matchup got fixed. how? i don't really know. there has to be a way. On July 25 2013 07:34 PanzerElite wrote: you forgot life also lost vs 2 foreign zergs zvz is pretty fucking random, everyone loses to everyone. even jaedong who we thought to be untouchable god of zvz lost finals to hyun. still, i get that life isn't what he used to be, but sjow... with all respect to sjow... come on. he's not even close to be on a level where he should be able to compete with life. he's a cool guy and all and i'm really happy for him but..... really? sjow beating life? | ||
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sibs
635 Posts
On July 25 2013 07:32 Terrasmith wrote: Life has lost to a lot of people recently; he's not the best example of Korean Zerg at the moment. Soulkey lost game 1 because he lost a lot of lings and banes moving up that ramp. If that didn't happen, he likely would have won. Hm, honestly, Life is actually doing pretty well compared to the other Zergs at the very top (Leenock,Roro,DRG), the only Zerg doing better is Soulkey, and maybe Hyun, anyhow we're probably going to be down to 5-7 Zergs next season if winrates at the very top remain how they are, I'm making this prediction based on the current Z winrate, if this prediction actually happens, get ready for Z buffs or T nerfs. | ||
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sibs
635 Posts
On July 25 2013 07:34 PanzerElite wrote: you forgot life also lost vs 2 foreign zergs He lost 2-1 to TLO, and beat Hyun 2-0. Not too bad for a volatile matchup. | ||
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LSN
Germany696 Posts
Live vs. flash is a perfect example how tournament wins happen. While life played the games of his life and did about 0 mistakes in the games that he won, he lost a few games to one single happening instantly after a few minutes vs flash who played below his average and below terran total potential. This made easy terran wins (one game flash won due to a single widow mine shot) and hard elaborated zerg wins. Still life only closely won 4:3 and 1 or 2 of these games where all-ins that flash could have easily hold if he knew how to scout and adapt the slightest bit to what the zerg is doing. This is what terrans base their opinion on. they dont look how games are won, what efforts have been made and with what easy certain games are lost for zergs. | ||
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ImperialFist
790 Posts
On July 25 2013 07:41 sibs wrote: Hm, honestly, Life is actually doing pretty well compared to the other Zergs at the very top (Leenock,Roro,DRG), the only Zerg doing better is Soulkey, and maybe Hyun, anyhow we're probably going to be down to 5-7 Zergs next season if winrates at the very top remain how they are, I'm making this prediction based on the current Z winrate, if this prediction actually happens, get ready for Z buffs or T nerfs. how are the winrates looking? | ||
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sibs
635 Posts
The winrates look super solid and balanced overall, but at the very top it seems super terran favored in TvZ wcs kr/proleague/gstl, I know terrans are going to deny this to the end of days, small sample size and all that, but we'll see if this trend continues. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On July 25 2013 07:23 willstertben wrote: yeah, that's why life (yeah, fucking life) lost against sjow. Life lost SjoW because his play was uncharacteristically poor in the two games he lost. Call me the day EU/AM Terrans start to constantly win top Korean Zergs despite said Zergs bringing their A game. For now, I'm afraid you will have to deal with the hard truth: SjoW simply played better than Life in the two games he won. | ||
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Rhaegal
United States678 Posts
On July 25 2013 07:53 sibs wrote: The winrates look super solid and balanced overall, but at the very top it seems super terran favored in TvZ wcs kr/proleague/gstl, I know terrans are going to deny this to the end of days, small sample size and all that, but we'll see if this trend continues. First GSL in the past 5 that Zerg doesn't win and Zerg players flip shit. They are performing well in tournaments and online cups. A lot of fan favorites like Life and Leenock fell off when HOTS came out, but such a thing was to be expected. The last 6 months of Wings of Liberty was the worst state of SC2 we've ever had. Things are pretty closed to balanced now. People are uncomfortable without constantly complaining about something. | ||
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Green_25
Great Britain696 Posts
On July 25 2013 07:38 willstertben wrote: and sjow is the best example of a foreign terran? no offense to sjow but he just isn't very good compared to other terrans. i cheered for sjow in that series and i was really happy for him and foreign starcraft when he won but looking back that just shouldn't ever have happened. all on the back of 65 scv 3 base rally and old hellbats. one of these things got nerfed, i think it's about time the other, arguably even larger issue with the matchup got fixed. how? i don't really know. there has to be a way. zvz is pretty fucking random, everyone loses to everyone. even jaedong who we thought to be untouchable god of zvz lost finals to hyun. still, i get that life isn't what he used to be, but sjow... with all respect to sjow... come on. he's not even close to be on a level where he should be able to compete with life. he's a cool guy and all and i'm really happy for him but..... really? sjow beating life? In the Sjow life series what happened was Sjow used the bio with mines/hellbats split with the main army composition. Life didn't seem to know how to play against it. Basically you need a higher baneling count with less ling/muta. Life is a guy who loves lings more than anything else in ZvT. So as well as Sjow played it was kind of a BO win for him at the same time. | ||
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GhostOwl
766 Posts
On July 25 2013 07:59 Rhaegal wrote: First GSL in the past 5 that Zerg doesn't win and Zerg players flip shit. They are performing well in tournaments and online cups. Oh look, the GSL argument again. And Sibs, you got it right. A Terran denied it right after your post lol. Read below: On July 25 2013 04:22 GhostOwl wrote: I love it when Terran players pull out GSL wins and ignore all other data to try to prove T isnt OP. Guess what? First GSL was won by Zerg when it was agreed that Zerg was severly underpowered. Does that GSL victory prove it was balanced? No, it just means one Zerg player was better/luckier than all other players. ZvT's balance heavily favors T at the moment, and slightly T favored for TvP. He's not crying, you're just bashing him cuz you dont want to lose your unfair advantage | ||
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