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On July 24 2013 01:17 Phoenix2003 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 00:23 Snowbear wrote:Watch out: OSL round 8 spoilers: + Show Spoiler +On July 23 2013 21:32 LittleRedBoy wrote:
I may end up switching to terran after seeing just how strong widow mines are. I saw a ton of these comments in the livethread. After the hellbat nerf, the mine is the next target. I just KNEW this would happen, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a mine nerf in a few months. After that, it's the medivac's turn. So sad how much hate the terran race gets. People will never stop the whine, untill we got wol terran back. The fact of the matter is is that you're a bunch of spoiled(mainly by Blizzard), entitled scumbags.
After reading your post I am pretty sure I know one scumbag who doesn't play terran.
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On July 24 2013 00:35 TheDwf wrote:
Zergs on this forum really need to stop acting like they're facing Code S Terrans every day on ladder. Your average Terran opponent doesn't have at all Bogus' mechanics, he doesn't have his Mine positioning, he doesn't have his splits, he doesn't have his multitask. At top50 GM Europe I struggle to simply trade 50:50 with 4M against lings/banes/mutas, so just give us a break with your "ez Mines" or your "Marines = MULEs = cost nothing" 2010 stuff because the best player in the world is winning.
On July 15 2013 (Myungsik vs Innovation) 18:15 TheDwf wrote:
Déjà vu in half my ladder games. ////:
Them epic double standards.
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On July 24 2013 01:28 Rhaegal wrote:
When a race is strong, people flock to it. Zerg was the most played race at the end of wings, then HOTS comes out (a zerg expansion mind you) and they still switch races in droves. Same thing happened with Terran in the beginning of WoL.
I won't lie, TvZ is a lot better in HOTS. MY TvZ went from 36% in the end of Wings, to 62% in HOTS. However, my ZvT got much better as well because of the improved muta. But, that's because TvZ is a mechanics war, and that's where I'm comfortable. My TvP went from 60% in wings to 35% in HOTS, because Protoss can turtle to late game and my late game control is piss poor. I feel zergs just started losing to Terran more and began to panic, blaming the game, instead of identifying where they are making mistakes.
Once again, TvZ is the most exciting matchup to watch. Please, let's not butcher it again with another hasty decision like the Queen buff. Zergs are winning tournaments, winrates look solid, and the game is more balanced now I feel than at any other point,
when there are 14 zergs in ro32, out of these 14 only 2 made it to ro8 who get manhandled 3-0 / 3-1 and then in ro4 there are 0 left something definitely is wrong with zerg perfomance.
you can argue about whether it's meta game or balance, but the two top end statistics, gsl and pro league, both tell a pretty sad story for zerg right now.
or maybe every zerg just had a bad day every day. who knows? in the end it's all just indicators and there will never be a true consensus on what's imbalanced and what isn't.
i do agree that whatever the state of balance might be, tvz is the most exciting matchup to watch if it's without a top terran.
if it is then it's always the same boring 3 base rally marine mine and then win.
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On July 24 2013 01:32 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 00:35 TheDwf wrote:
Zergs on this forum really need to stop acting like they're facing Code S Terrans every day on ladder. Your average Terran opponent doesn't have at all Bogus' mechanics, he doesn't have his Mine positioning, he doesn't have his splits, he doesn't have his multitask. At top50 GM Europe I struggle to simply trade 50:50 with 4M against lings/banes/mutas, so just give us a break with your "ez Mines" or your "Marines = MULEs = cost nothing" 2010 stuff because the best player in the world is winning. Show nested quote +On July 15 2013 (Myungsik vs Innovation) 18:15 TheDwf wrote:
Déjà vu in half my ladder games. ////: Them epic double standards.
Nope, the difference is precisely that anyone can warp and shift move Zealots in mineral lines from a random Pylon; it's not demanding at all and Protoss from my level do it all the time, and they don't need to compete in Proleague or Code A/S to be able to do that.
But nice try!
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On July 24 2013 01:45 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 01:32 Nebuchad wrote:On July 24 2013 00:35 TheDwf wrote:
Zergs on this forum really need to stop acting like they're facing Code S Terrans every day on ladder. Your average Terran opponent doesn't have at all Bogus' mechanics, he doesn't have his Mine positioning, he doesn't have his splits, he doesn't have his multitask. At top50 GM Europe I struggle to simply trade 50:50 with 4M against lings/banes/mutas, so just give us a break with your "ez Mines" or your "Marines = MULEs = cost nothing" 2010 stuff because the best player in the world is winning. On July 15 2013 (Myungsik vs Innovation) 18:15 TheDwf wrote:
Déjà vu in half my ladder games. ////: Them epic double standards. Nope, the difference is precisely that anyone can warp and shift move Zealots in mineral lines from a random Pylon; it's not demanding at all and Protoss from my level do it all the time, and they don't need to compete in Proleague or Code A/S to be able to do that. But nice try!
Must be hard to play the equivalent of code S level protoss every day without being Innovation :/
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On July 24 2013 01:47 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 01:45 TheDwf wrote:On July 24 2013 01:32 Nebuchad wrote:On July 24 2013 00:35 TheDwf wrote:
Zergs on this forum really need to stop acting like they're facing Code S Terrans every day on ladder. Your average Terran opponent doesn't have at all Bogus' mechanics, he doesn't have his Mine positioning, he doesn't have his splits, he doesn't have his multitask. At top50 GM Europe I struggle to simply trade 50:50 with 4M against lings/banes/mutas, so just give us a break with your "ez Mines" or your "Marines = MULEs = cost nothing" 2010 stuff because the best player in the world is winning. On July 15 2013 (Myungsik vs Innovation) 18:15 TheDwf wrote:
Déjà vu in half my ladder games. ////: Them epic double standards. Nope, the difference is precisely that anyone can warp and shift move Zealots in mineral lines from a random Pylon; it's not demanding at all and Protoss from my level do it all the time, and they don't need to compete in Proleague or Code A/S to be able to do that. But nice try! Must be hard to play code S level protoss every day without being Innovation :/
Your sarcasms would look better if the point wasn't that you don't need at all to be a Code S Protoss to perform this kind of autopilot harassment.
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On July 24 2013 01:47 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 01:45 TheDwf wrote:On July 24 2013 01:32 Nebuchad wrote:On July 24 2013 00:35 TheDwf wrote:
Zergs on this forum really need to stop acting like they're facing Code S Terrans every day on ladder. Your average Terran opponent doesn't have at all Bogus' mechanics, he doesn't have his Mine positioning, he doesn't have his splits, he doesn't have his multitask. At top50 GM Europe I struggle to simply trade 50:50 with 4M against lings/banes/mutas, so just give us a break with your "ez Mines" or your "Marines = MULEs = cost nothing" 2010 stuff because the best player in the world is winning. On July 15 2013 (Myungsik vs Innovation) 18:15 TheDwf wrote:
Déjà vu in half my ladder games. ////: Them epic double standards. Nope, the difference is precisely that anyone can warp and shift move Zealots in mineral lines from a random Pylon; it's not demanding at all and Protoss from my level do it all the time, and they don't need to compete in Proleague or Code A/S to be able to do that. But nice try! Must be hard to play the equivalent of code S level protoss every day without being Innovation :/
Have you read his post at all? I quote the important passage for you: " it's not demanding at all and Protoss from my level do it all the time, and they don't need to compete in Proleague"
Edit: Damn, he was faster.
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On July 24 2013 01:42 willstertben wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 01:28 Rhaegal wrote:
When a race is strong, people flock to it. Zerg was the most played race at the end of wings, then HOTS comes out (a zerg expansion mind you) and they still switch races in droves. Same thing happened with Terran in the beginning of WoL.
I won't lie, TvZ is a lot better in HOTS. MY TvZ went from 36% in the end of Wings, to 62% in HOTS. However, my ZvT got much better as well because of the improved muta. But, that's because TvZ is a mechanics war, and that's where I'm comfortable. My TvP went from 60% in wings to 35% in HOTS, because Protoss can turtle to late game and my late game control is piss poor. I feel zergs just started losing to Terran more and began to panic, blaming the game, instead of identifying where they are making mistakes.
Once again, TvZ is the most exciting matchup to watch. Please, let's not butcher it again with another hasty decision like the Queen buff. Zergs are winning tournaments, winrates look solid, and the game is more balanced now I feel than at any other point, when there are 14 zergs in ro32, out of these 14 only 2 made it to ro8 who get manhandled 3-0 / 3-1 and then in ro4 there are 0 left something definitely is wrong with zerg perfomance. you can argue about whether it's meta game or balance, but the two top end statistics, gsl and pro league, both tell a pretty sad story for zerg right now.
Zerg was quite overperforming at the end of WoL in ZvT (up to 60% winrates in the last GSL of WoL). It's only natural that a lot of them will fail early in a more difficult setup. Especially when they don't adapt to modern playstyles (I'm looking at you, Life, you awesome player that I want so badly to do well again, but who keeps on punching himself in the face with sucide play)
On July 24 2013 01:42 willstertben wrote:
or maybe every zerg just had a bad day every day. who knows? in the end it's all just indicators and there will never be a true consensus on what's imbalanced and what isn't.
Yes, this can happen. In every other tournament of the last months it wasn't really bad for zerg.
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On July 24 2013 01:52 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 01:42 willstertben wrote:On July 24 2013 01:28 Rhaegal wrote:
When a race is strong, people flock to it. Zerg was the most played race at the end of wings, then HOTS comes out (a zerg expansion mind you) and they still switch races in droves. Same thing happened with Terran in the beginning of WoL.
I won't lie, TvZ is a lot better in HOTS. MY TvZ went from 36% in the end of Wings, to 62% in HOTS. However, my ZvT got much better as well because of the improved muta. But, that's because TvZ is a mechanics war, and that's where I'm comfortable. My TvP went from 60% in wings to 35% in HOTS, because Protoss can turtle to late game and my late game control is piss poor. I feel zergs just started losing to Terran more and began to panic, blaming the game, instead of identifying where they are making mistakes.
Once again, TvZ is the most exciting matchup to watch. Please, let's not butcher it again with another hasty decision like the Queen buff. Zergs are winning tournaments, winrates look solid, and the game is more balanced now I feel than at any other point, when there are 14 zergs in ro32, out of these 14 only 2 made it to ro8 who get manhandled 3-0 / 3-1 and then in ro4 there are 0 left something definitely is wrong with zerg perfomance. you can argue about whether it's meta game or balance, but the two top end statistics, gsl and pro league, both tell a pretty sad story for zerg right now. Zerg was quite overperforming at the end of WoL in ZvT (up to 60% winrates in the last GSL of WoL). It's only natural that a lot of them will fail early in a more difficult setup. Especially when they don't adapt to modern playstyles (I'm looking at you, Life, you awesome player that I want so badly to do well again, but who keeps on punching himself in the face with sucide play) Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 01:42 willstertben wrote:
or maybe every zerg just had a bad day every day. who knows? in the end it's all just indicators and there will never be a true consensus on what's imbalanced and what isn't. Yes, this can happen. In every other tournament of the last months it wasn't really bad for zerg.
you see, that would make sense if zerg went to shit immidiatly after hots release and do okay now.
while that did happen in a broader sense, on the top end zerg is doing worse than ever right now and was doing okayish up until a few weeks ago.
hots has been out for almost 5 months now and people have been playing the beta for much longer. stop acting like it's still alien to people who play this game 10+ hours a day.
by the way
>Zerg was quite overperforming at the end of WoL in ZvT (up to 60% winrates in the last GSL of WoL)
terran won 71.4% in tvz this season.
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On July 24 2013 01:50 HerrHorst wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 01:47 Nebuchad wrote:On July 24 2013 01:45 TheDwf wrote:On July 24 2013 01:32 Nebuchad wrote:On July 24 2013 00:35 TheDwf wrote:
Zergs on this forum really need to stop acting like they're facing Code S Terrans every day on ladder. Your average Terran opponent doesn't have at all Bogus' mechanics, he doesn't have his Mine positioning, he doesn't have his splits, he doesn't have his multitask. At top50 GM Europe I struggle to simply trade 50:50 with 4M against lings/banes/mutas, so just give us a break with your "ez Mines" or your "Marines = MULEs = cost nothing" 2010 stuff because the best player in the world is winning. On July 15 2013 (Myungsik vs Innovation) 18:15 TheDwf wrote:
Déjà vu in half my ladder games. ////: Them epic double standards. Nope, the difference is precisely that anyone can warp and shift move Zealots in mineral lines from a random Pylon; it's not demanding at all and Protoss from my level do it all the time, and they don't need to compete in Proleague or Code A/S to be able to do that. But nice try! Must be hard to play the equivalent of code S level protoss every day without being Innovation :/ Have you read his post at all? I quote the important passage for you: " it's not demanding at all and Protoss from my level do it all the time, and they don't need to compete in Proleague" Edit: Damn, he was faster.
Yup I answered his post too fast, I expected a different kind of bad answer. Didn't think he would really look at that game and think "lol zealot runbys". I'm sorry about that.
To almost-quote myself from a few days ago, if you're convinced that the terran deserves to win more because terran is overall harder to macro, then you can't see protoss playing well. You just see a wall of "master+ protoss" doing the same shit every game ("lol zealot runbys"), and it can only be balanced once terran wins every single game, because they deserve it more.
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On July 24 2013 01:57 willstertben wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 01:52 Big J wrote:On July 24 2013 01:42 willstertben wrote:On July 24 2013 01:28 Rhaegal wrote:
When a race is strong, people flock to it. Zerg was the most played race at the end of wings, then HOTS comes out (a zerg expansion mind you) and they still switch races in droves. Same thing happened with Terran in the beginning of WoL.
I won't lie, TvZ is a lot better in HOTS. MY TvZ went from 36% in the end of Wings, to 62% in HOTS. However, my ZvT got much better as well because of the improved muta. But, that's because TvZ is a mechanics war, and that's where I'm comfortable. My TvP went from 60% in wings to 35% in HOTS, because Protoss can turtle to late game and my late game control is piss poor. I feel zergs just started losing to Terran more and began to panic, blaming the game, instead of identifying where they are making mistakes.
Once again, TvZ is the most exciting matchup to watch. Please, let's not butcher it again with another hasty decision like the Queen buff. Zergs are winning tournaments, winrates look solid, and the game is more balanced now I feel than at any other point, when there are 14 zergs in ro32, out of these 14 only 2 made it to ro8 who get manhandled 3-0 / 3-1 and then in ro4 there are 0 left something definitely is wrong with zerg perfomance. you can argue about whether it's meta game or balance, but the two top end statistics, gsl and pro league, both tell a pretty sad story for zerg right now. Zerg was quite overperforming at the end of WoL in ZvT (up to 60% winrates in the last GSL of WoL). It's only natural that a lot of them will fail early in a more difficult setup. Especially when they don't adapt to modern playstyles (I'm looking at you, Life, you awesome player that I want so badly to do well again, but who keeps on punching himself in the face with sucide play) On July 24 2013 01:42 willstertben wrote:
or maybe every zerg just had a bad day every day. who knows? in the end it's all just indicators and there will never be a true consensus on what's imbalanced and what isn't. Yes, this can happen. In every other tournament of the last months it wasn't really bad for zerg. you see, that would make sense if zerg went to shit immidiatly after hots release and do okay now. while that did happen in a broader sense, on the top end zerg is doing worse than ever right now and was doing okayish up until a few weeks ago. hots has been out for almost 5 months now and people have been playing the beta for much longer. stop acting like it's still alien to people who play this game 10+ hours a day. by the way >Zerg was quite overperforming at the end of WoL in ZvT (up to 60% winrates in the last GSL of WoL) terran won 71.4% in tvz this season.
no, because even if 10 of those zergs shouldn't be placed as high as they are, chances are that some just randomly stay in for a longer time still. It's only the second seasons right now. Most of the players in Code A+S are still there because they were roughly around that level in WoL and didn't have to walk the "HotS only" road.
also, the 60% was in Code S+A. And we have 60% in Premier League + Code A right now as well. Chances are quite high that it was much more brutal in Code S only.
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On July 24 2013 02:04 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 01:57 willstertben wrote:On July 24 2013 01:52 Big J wrote:On July 24 2013 01:42 willstertben wrote:On July 24 2013 01:28 Rhaegal wrote:
When a race is strong, people flock to it. Zerg was the most played race at the end of wings, then HOTS comes out (a zerg expansion mind you) and they still switch races in droves. Same thing happened with Terran in the beginning of WoL.
I won't lie, TvZ is a lot better in HOTS. MY TvZ went from 36% in the end of Wings, to 62% in HOTS. However, my ZvT got much better as well because of the improved muta. But, that's because TvZ is a mechanics war, and that's where I'm comfortable. My TvP went from 60% in wings to 35% in HOTS, because Protoss can turtle to late game and my late game control is piss poor. I feel zergs just started losing to Terran more and began to panic, blaming the game, instead of identifying where they are making mistakes.
Once again, TvZ is the most exciting matchup to watch. Please, let's not butcher it again with another hasty decision like the Queen buff. Zergs are winning tournaments, winrates look solid, and the game is more balanced now I feel than at any other point, when there are 14 zergs in ro32, out of these 14 only 2 made it to ro8 who get manhandled 3-0 / 3-1 and then in ro4 there are 0 left something definitely is wrong with zerg perfomance. you can argue about whether it's meta game or balance, but the two top end statistics, gsl and pro league, both tell a pretty sad story for zerg right now. Zerg was quite overperforming at the end of WoL in ZvT (up to 60% winrates in the last GSL of WoL). It's only natural that a lot of them will fail early in a more difficult setup. Especially when they don't adapt to modern playstyles (I'm looking at you, Life, you awesome player that I want so badly to do well again, but who keeps on punching himself in the face with sucide play) On July 24 2013 01:42 willstertben wrote:
or maybe every zerg just had a bad day every day. who knows? in the end it's all just indicators and there will never be a true consensus on what's imbalanced and what isn't. Yes, this can happen. In every other tournament of the last months it wasn't really bad for zerg. you see, that would make sense if zerg went to shit immidiatly after hots release and do okay now. while that did happen in a broader sense, on the top end zerg is doing worse than ever right now and was doing okayish up until a few weeks ago. hots has been out for almost 5 months now and people have been playing the beta for much longer. stop acting like it's still alien to people who play this game 10+ hours a day. by the way >Zerg was quite overperforming at the end of WoL in ZvT (up to 60% winrates in the last GSL of WoL) terran won 71.4% in tvz this season. no, because even if 10 of those zergs shouldn't be placed as high as they are, chances are that some just randomly stay in for a longer time still. It's only the second seasons right now. Most of the players in Code A+S are still there because they were roughly around that level in WoL and didn't have to walk the "HotS only" road. also, the 60% was in Code S+A. And we have 60% in Premier League + Code A right now as well. Chances are quite high that it was much more brutal in Code S only.
it was 61% zvt in the last wol gsl code s, so it's much worse for zerg right now than it was for terran at the end of wol on the top end. but we do agree that waiting will show whether or not this trend continues or if it was just bad day for every zerg on every day.
i just hope blizzard will not make hots-zerg the new 'end of wol-terran' who they chose to ignore even when they weren't able to do anything.
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On July 24 2013 02:03 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 01:50 HerrHorst wrote:On July 24 2013 01:47 Nebuchad wrote:On July 24 2013 01:45 TheDwf wrote:On July 24 2013 01:32 Nebuchad wrote:On July 24 2013 00:35 TheDwf wrote:
Zergs on this forum really need to stop acting like they're facing Code S Terrans every day on ladder. Your average Terran opponent doesn't have at all Bogus' mechanics, he doesn't have his Mine positioning, he doesn't have his splits, he doesn't have his multitask. At top50 GM Europe I struggle to simply trade 50:50 with 4M against lings/banes/mutas, so just give us a break with your "ez Mines" or your "Marines = MULEs = cost nothing" 2010 stuff because the best player in the world is winning. On July 15 2013 (Myungsik vs Innovation) 18:15 TheDwf wrote:
Déjà vu in half my ladder games. ////: Them epic double standards. Nope, the difference is precisely that anyone can warp and shift move Zealots in mineral lines from a random Pylon; it's not demanding at all and Protoss from my level do it all the time, and they don't need to compete in Proleague or Code A/S to be able to do that. But nice try! Must be hard to play the equivalent of code S level protoss every day without being Innovation :/ Have you read his post at all? I quote the important passage for you: " it's not demanding at all and Protoss from my level do it all the time, and they don't need to compete in Proleague" Edit: Damn, he was faster. Yup I answered his post too fast, I expected a different kind of bad answer. Didn't think he would really look at that game and think "lol zealot runbys". I'm sorry about that. To almost-quote myself from a few days ago, if you're convinced that the terran deserves to win more because terran is overall harder to macro, then you can't see protoss playing well. You just see a wall of "master+ protoss" doing the same shit every game ("lol zealot runbys"), and it can only be balanced once terran wins every single game, because they deserve it more.
No. I am the one saying in LR threads that Protoss doesn't have a "lower skill ceiling" as people always say, and since I meet both I know perfectly well the difference between "random highmasters" and top EU players like MaNa or Naniwa; I have therefore no troubles to imagine or see how much better top KeSPA Protoss are despite never encountering them. But whatever, straw man arguments are the best.
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im honestly thinking the reason we got less zerg doing well that only because they cant not abuse wol build anymore
( infestor )
in wol we have clearly got many UNSKILLED ZERG who just abused the game and ended up top pro gamer while they are in reality bad player .
just skill , they just need practice and learn the game and become good , if they deserve to be pro gamer .
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On July 24 2013 02:09 willstertben wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 02:04 Big J wrote:On July 24 2013 01:57 willstertben wrote:On July 24 2013 01:52 Big J wrote:On July 24 2013 01:42 willstertben wrote:On July 24 2013 01:28 Rhaegal wrote:
When a race is strong, people flock to it. Zerg was the most played race at the end of wings, then HOTS comes out (a zerg expansion mind you) and they still switch races in droves. Same thing happened with Terran in the beginning of WoL.
I won't lie, TvZ is a lot better in HOTS. MY TvZ went from 36% in the end of Wings, to 62% in HOTS. However, my ZvT got much better as well because of the improved muta. But, that's because TvZ is a mechanics war, and that's where I'm comfortable. My TvP went from 60% in wings to 35% in HOTS, because Protoss can turtle to late game and my late game control is piss poor. I feel zergs just started losing to Terran more and began to panic, blaming the game, instead of identifying where they are making mistakes.
Once again, TvZ is the most exciting matchup to watch. Please, let's not butcher it again with another hasty decision like the Queen buff. Zergs are winning tournaments, winrates look solid, and the game is more balanced now I feel than at any other point, when there are 14 zergs in ro32, out of these 14 only 2 made it to ro8 who get manhandled 3-0 / 3-1 and then in ro4 there are 0 left something definitely is wrong with zerg perfomance. you can argue about whether it's meta game or balance, but the two top end statistics, gsl and pro league, both tell a pretty sad story for zerg right now. Zerg was quite overperforming at the end of WoL in ZvT (up to 60% winrates in the last GSL of WoL). It's only natural that a lot of them will fail early in a more difficult setup. Especially when they don't adapt to modern playstyles (I'm looking at you, Life, you awesome player that I want so badly to do well again, but who keeps on punching himself in the face with sucide play) On July 24 2013 01:42 willstertben wrote:
or maybe every zerg just had a bad day every day. who knows? in the end it's all just indicators and there will never be a true consensus on what's imbalanced and what isn't. Yes, this can happen. In every other tournament of the last months it wasn't really bad for zerg. you see, that would make sense if zerg went to shit immidiatly after hots release and do okay now. while that did happen in a broader sense, on the top end zerg is doing worse than ever right now and was doing okayish up until a few weeks ago. hots has been out for almost 5 months now and people have been playing the beta for much longer. stop acting like it's still alien to people who play this game 10+ hours a day. by the way >Zerg was quite overperforming at the end of WoL in ZvT (up to 60% winrates in the last GSL of WoL) terran won 71.4% in tvz this season. no, because even if 10 of those zergs shouldn't be placed as high as they are, chances are that some just randomly stay in for a longer time still. It's only the second seasons right now. Most of the players in Code A+S are still there because they were roughly around that level in WoL and didn't have to walk the "HotS only" road. also, the 60% was in Code S+A. And we have 60% in Premier League + Code A right now as well. Chances are quite high that it was much more brutal in Code S only. it was 61% zvt in the last wol gsl code s, so it's much worse for zerg right now than it was for terran at the end of wol on the top end. but we do agree that waiting will show whether or not this trend continues or if it was just bad day for every zerg on every day. i just hope blizzard will not make hots-zerg the new 'end of wol-terran' who they chose to ignore even when they weren't able to do anything.
they did things for ZvT at the end of WoL. But too little, too late (the Infestor nerfs were in the right direction, but not enough on their own).
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On July 24 2013 02:09 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 02:03 Nebuchad wrote:On July 24 2013 01:50 HerrHorst wrote:On July 24 2013 01:47 Nebuchad wrote:On July 24 2013 01:45 TheDwf wrote:On July 24 2013 01:32 Nebuchad wrote:On July 24 2013 00:35 TheDwf wrote:
Zergs on this forum really need to stop acting like they're facing Code S Terrans every day on ladder. Your average Terran opponent doesn't have at all Bogus' mechanics, he doesn't have his Mine positioning, he doesn't have his splits, he doesn't have his multitask. At top50 GM Europe I struggle to simply trade 50:50 with 4M against lings/banes/mutas, so just give us a break with your "ez Mines" or your "Marines = MULEs = cost nothing" 2010 stuff because the best player in the world is winning. On July 15 2013 (Myungsik vs Innovation) 18:15 TheDwf wrote:
Déjà vu in half my ladder games. ////: Them epic double standards. Nope, the difference is precisely that anyone can warp and shift move Zealots in mineral lines from a random Pylon; it's not demanding at all and Protoss from my level do it all the time, and they don't need to compete in Proleague or Code A/S to be able to do that. But nice try! Must be hard to play the equivalent of code S level protoss every day without being Innovation :/ Have you read his post at all? I quote the important passage for you: " it's not demanding at all and Protoss from my level do it all the time, and they don't need to compete in Proleague" Edit: Damn, he was faster. Yup I answered his post too fast, I expected a different kind of bad answer. Didn't think he would really look at that game and think "lol zealot runbys". I'm sorry about that. To almost-quote myself from a few days ago, if you're convinced that the terran deserves to win more because terran is overall harder to macro, then you can't see protoss playing well. You just see a wall of "master+ protoss" doing the same shit every game ("lol zealot runbys"), and it can only be balanced once terran wins every single game, because they deserve it more. No. I am the one saying in LR threads that Protoss doesn't have a "lower skill ceiling" as people always say, and since I meet both I know perfectly well the difference between "random highmasters" and top EU players like MaNa or Naniwa; I have therefore no troubles to imagine or see how much better top KeSPA Protoss are despite never encountering them. But whatever, straw man arguments are the best.
I have trouble conceiving a train of thought in which everything you have said makes sense without contradiction. But yeah, we don't have to continue this, I never expected to show you the light and you know I won't see it either.
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On July 24 2013 02:09 quebecman77 wrote:
im honestly thinking the reason we got less zerg doing well that only because they cant not abuse wol build anymore
( infestor )
in wol we have clearly got many UNSKILLED ZERG who just abused the game and ended up top pro gamer while they are in reality bad player .
just skill , they just need practice and learn the game and become good , if they deserve to be pro gamer .
explain morrow then. failed to do ANYTHING noteworthy as zerg on the height of zerg dominance in wings half a year ago while having played zerg longer than terran (in sc2), switches back to terran with hots, suddenly does decent again.
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On July 24 2013 02:18 willstertben wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 02:09 quebecman77 wrote:
im honestly thinking the reason we got less zerg doing well that only because they cant not abuse wol build anymore
( infestor )
in wol we have clearly got many UNSKILLED ZERG who just abused the game and ended up top pro gamer while they are in reality bad player .
just skill , they just need practice and learn the game and become good , if they deserve to be pro gamer . explain morrow then. failed to do ANYTHING noteworthy as zerg on the height of zerg dominance in wings half a year ago while having played zerg longer than terran (in sc2), switches back to terran with hots, suddenly does decent again.
lol you forgot morrow was an a- rank terran in broodwar for 2 years with some of the best macro and multitasking. And even when he played zerg he played tvz and still played terran a bit. overall morrow has MUCH more experiance with terran.
and saying he failed to do anything as zerg is just ignorance, he was a top eu zerg for awhile.
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On July 24 2013 02:13 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 02:09 TheDwf wrote:On July 24 2013 02:03 Nebuchad wrote:On July 24 2013 01:50 HerrHorst wrote:On July 24 2013 01:47 Nebuchad wrote:On July 24 2013 01:45 TheDwf wrote:On July 24 2013 01:32 Nebuchad wrote:On July 24 2013 00:35 TheDwf wrote:
Zergs on this forum really need to stop acting like they're facing Code S Terrans every day on ladder. Your average Terran opponent doesn't have at all Bogus' mechanics, he doesn't have his Mine positioning, he doesn't have his splits, he doesn't have his multitask. At top50 GM Europe I struggle to simply trade 50:50 with 4M against lings/banes/mutas, so just give us a break with your "ez Mines" or your "Marines = MULEs = cost nothing" 2010 stuff because the best player in the world is winning. On July 15 2013 (Myungsik vs Innovation) 18:15 TheDwf wrote:
Déjà vu in half my ladder games. ////: Them epic double standards. Nope, the difference is precisely that anyone can warp and shift move Zealots in mineral lines from a random Pylon; it's not demanding at all and Protoss from my level do it all the time, and they don't need to compete in Proleague or Code A/S to be able to do that. But nice try! Must be hard to play the equivalent of code S level protoss every day without being Innovation :/ Have you read his post at all? I quote the important passage for you: " it's not demanding at all and Protoss from my level do it all the time, and they don't need to compete in Proleague" Edit: Damn, he was faster. Yup I answered his post too fast, I expected a different kind of bad answer. Didn't think he would really look at that game and think "lol zealot runbys". I'm sorry about that. To almost-quote myself from a few days ago, if you're convinced that the terran deserves to win more because terran is overall harder to macro, then you can't see protoss playing well. You just see a wall of "master+ protoss" doing the same shit every game ("lol zealot runbys"), and it can only be balanced once terran wins every single game, because they deserve it more. No. I am the one saying in LR threads that Protoss doesn't have a "lower skill ceiling" as people always say, and since I meet both I know perfectly well the difference between "random highmasters" and top EU players like MaNa or Naniwa; I have therefore no troubles to imagine or see how much better top KeSPA Protoss are despite never encountering them. But whatever, straw man arguments are the best. I have trouble conceiving a train of thought in which everything you have said makes sense without contradiction.
Most likely because you don't make the distinction between skill ceiling and skill floor.
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On July 24 2013 02:21 EleanorRIgby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 02:18 willstertben wrote:On July 24 2013 02:09 quebecman77 wrote:
im honestly thinking the reason we got less zerg doing well that only because they cant not abuse wol build anymore
( infestor )
in wol we have clearly got many UNSKILLED ZERG who just abused the game and ended up top pro gamer while they are in reality bad player .
just skill , they just need practice and learn the game and become good , if they deserve to be pro gamer . explain morrow then. failed to do ANYTHING noteworthy as zerg on the height of zerg dominance in wings half a year ago while having played zerg longer than terran (in sc2), switches back to terran with hots, suddenly does decent again. lol you forgot morrow was an a- rank terran in broodwar for 2 years with some of the best macro and multitasking. And even when he played zerg he played tvz and still played terran a bit. overall morrow has MUCH more experiance with terran.
so you're saying bw terran experience counts for sc2? why is idras terran so shit then? (no offense greg, lol)
On July 24 2013 02:21 EleanorRIgby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 02:18 willstertben wrote:On July 24 2013 02:09 quebecman77 wrote:
im honestly thinking the reason we got less zerg doing well that only because they cant not abuse wol build anymore
( infestor )
in wol we have clearly got many UNSKILLED ZERG who just abused the game and ended up top pro gamer while they are in reality bad player .
just skill , they just need practice and learn the game and become good , if they deserve to be pro gamer . explain morrow then. failed to do ANYTHING noteworthy as zerg on the height of zerg dominance in wings half a year ago while having played zerg longer than terran (in sc2), switches back to terran with hots, suddenly does decent again. and saying he failed to do anything as zerg is just ignorance, he was a top eu zerg for awhile.
thats why i said on the height of zerg dominance in wings half a year ago.
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EPT
