Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 332

On July 29 2012 00:24 Kamwah wrote:
I find it annoying that Toss/Zerg's AoE doesn't cause friendly fire while Siege tanks instantly kill marines that get in the way.
The only other AoE that does friendly fire is Storm and Zealots hardly take any damage from that.

I think it'd be a good idea to introduce friendly fire from all AoE so that people are more reluctant to just A-move without micro'ing.

On July 28 2012 18:16 Bagi wrote:

"Impossible" isn't the same as imbalanced or favoring one side over the other. Taeja managed to get out over 15 ghosts and managed to get nearly the perfect engagement with them. It happens.

It is extremely ironic that you would use that game as an example though, considering Taeja pulled most of his SCVs instead of trying to secure more bases and play out a proper macro game. I guess he also showed that its better to go all in than to try to play macro against a toss with 4+ bases.

On July 28 2012 22:46 Rabiator wrote:

Warp Gate research is a MUST HAVE upgrade and thus it is BAD. It isnt optional and there is no choice to make.

Good unit design should always have advantages paired with disadvantages. Thats why the Siege Tank is a much better design than the Colossus for example, whose only disadvantage is that it cant hit air.

The problem with the game right now is that it is wayy too fast and involves too many units. Having the ability to mass-produce units and in the middle of the battle is a really huge advantage over the other races and I think giving up this advantage partially while slowing down the production speed of the other races (sacking the reactor and reducing inject larva from 4 to 3 OR making it impossible for a hatchery to hold more than ~6 larva) could help all the "high tech" builds and making the game less tier 1 focused. Since HotS will require a full rebalance of units anyways I think they could fiddle around with the macro mechanics as well.


A Zerg army is a brown mass of something (watch a Zerg army fight in the GSL on the free stream).
A Protoss army is a yellow-ish mass of something (with some white blobs for the Archons).

Their lack of good looks comes from the lack of distinctness and even the colors of the units with no real contrast colors in them. Another reason for it is the totally different behaviour for terran units compared to a protoss deathball and a zerg swarm of mass units. Totally unexciting in the long run are Banelings due to their one-shot nature, compared to a Banshee which is trying to harrass a base they have instant excitement which is also gone instantly.

On July 29 2012 00:38 ysnake wrote:


Terran does not have any melee units.
Hellion AoE does not have friendly fire.
Thor air-attack AoE does not have friendly fire.

Zerglings get 1shot from a Baneling, that would mean that you could target a group of Banelings and kill 30-40 Zerglings.

Colossus AoE is not huge and is easily countered by Vikings/Corruptors.

If you do not want to split your forces as a Terran, play some other race, you'll find out that there are so many things Terran does that is absolutely annoying and imbalanced (close air-spawn Antiga, impossible to secure a third, annoying huge base on Shakuras-especially in PvT, Zerg not being able to finish off a Terran unless allin etc etc).

Things that you have mentioned do not cause imbalance and therefore are irrelevant.

Look at these simple facts.

SC2 is a deathball dominated game. No one denies this. Yes?

AoE is the best thing against deathballs, where units are clumped. Yes?

Currently, the two races doing well (Protoss and Zerg) also happen to have better aoe. Yes?

Co-incidence? No.

On July 29 2012 00:50 mlspmatt wrote:

I don't think he was referring to the color of the units.

On July 29 2012 01:02 ohampatu wrote:




Yes its deathball orientated. Yes AoE works best vs clumped units. Your third point is wrong though. You need to look at AoE objectively.

Terran may not have the same AoE potential. But it has some potential.
Terran: Tanks, Ghost Emp (against toss) both do surprisingly good AoE imo.
Broods are prolly the unit your talking about on AoE, its not really an AoE unit,
Unless you mean Infestors, but they aren't their for AoE, they are their to make your
units get stuck.
I agree toss as Colo and Storm, two of the best AoE units. Luckily Colo are easily countered,
and each race can fight HT on equal grounds.


-------------------------------------------------------------
I wish they would change a few things.

Collosus--Needs a change, or needs replaced, just hate the unit.
Marauder--Same as above. Just a boring unit, conc makes for no fun
Broodlord/Infestor--I dont think either unit itself is sup op, but paired together they create way too many issues.

My biggest issue: That certain comps are just too easy to 'win' with.

Old VR/Colo deathballs for instance. Maurader/Medivak/Viking/Ghost...Infestor/Brood....

as a watcher (and player) i think the above 3 unit comps (and some others) are just stupid ez to play, and take twice as much effort to deflect..on top of not being a good viewing experience. Its also not fun that even in diff matchup's, the 'unit comp' doesn't change. If your zerg, regardless of who your playing (non mirror mu's), your lategame is infestor/brood. If your terran you have BIO or BIO-Mech (non mirror mu's). If your protoss, You have Colo.

On July 29 2012 01:39 dashmode wrote:
I don't really care about balance, it will come with time, with a small help from patches and stuff ofc, but the thing I want the most is a fun gameplay, as a viewer. This game today, a TvT between Gumiho and MMA had everything. One could say that was the game of the year - perhaps, it was great game for sure. The thing about TvT is this matchup is more about strategy than any other and it comes with siege tanks first. In TvT a positional advantage matters, it's like a chess game, the game is played on many fronts, because you cant just 1a your army into a siege line of enemy tanks, that will not work too well for you most of the time, but I guess that's why there are marauders to help you with that. Anyway, I hate these 1a mechanics of zerg and protoss, it makes games/battles end fast and less exciting. It's like "hey I guess i have more roaches than you" and then you 1a your army into a win. I really miss reavers and lurkers from bw, each race had some type of siege ground unit, they were very powerfull but extremely slow or stationary, so by design you had a position aspect from each race which created a game with far more strategy depth. Maybe that is why bw was so good in a first place? Colossus and Swarm host are just a bad designed units, nothing exciting about them and late game PvP is the most boring sh*t ever created, 30min game into 10 sec end game battle - because of colossus.

On July 29 2012 02:21 Crying wrote:
Who else thinks that Broodlords broodlings,should be makeable,as carrier's interceptors?
Maybe cheaper,and faster building cos they are ground units

On July 29 2012 02:21 Crying wrote:
Who else thinks that Broodlords broodlings,should be makeable,as carrier's interceptors?
Maybe cheaper,and faster building cos they are ground units

On July 29 2012 05:03 Havik_ wrote:
I can't help but feel that a lot of Terrans simply want free, even easier wins against other races, especially TvP where its all about army positioning and the only thing that's really changed alot from the GomTvT days was EMP radius, which Taeja showed doesn't matter when you make more Ghosts. Colossi will get sniped easy and then with Medivac support the terran army will out DPS everything. The only time TvP is "autowin" for Protoss is if they hit a timing where they have Colossi and Terran has no vikings or a Timing where they have ALOT of High Templar and Terran has no Ghosts. There's really nothing imba about lategame TvP, especially when Terran has a crapton of timings that they can hit.


TvZ was fine too until the Queen buff, but that's an early game thing where Zerg can play more greedy behind their buffed Queens. Late game Terran just needs the right units. Vikings/ravens for Corruptor/ Broodlord, marauders for Ultralisks, and Ghosts for Infestors. Why Terrans don't make Ghosts anymore in this matchup baffles me considering that the Infestor is IMO the most important part of Zerg lategame. 2-3 EMPs = 10+ USELESS Infestors.

On July 29 2012 05:03 Havik_ wrote:
I can't help but feel that a lot of Terrans simply want free, even easier wins against other races, especially TvP where its all about army positioning and the only thing that's really changed alot from the GomTvT days was EMP radius, which Taeja showed doesn't matter when you make more Ghosts. Colossi will get sniped easy and then with Medivac support the terran army will out DPS everything. The only time TvP is "autowin" for Protoss is if they hit a timing where they have Colossi and Terran has no vikings or a Timing where they have ALOT of High Templar and Terran has no Ghosts. There's really nothing imba about lategame TvP, especially when Terran has a crapton of timings that they can hit.


TvZ was fine too until the Queen buff, but that's an early game thing where Zerg can play more greedy behind their buffed Queens. Late game Terran just needs the right units. Vikings/ravens for Corruptor/ Broodlord, marauders for Ultralisks, and Ghosts for Infestors. Why Terrans don't make Ghosts anymore in this matchup baffles me considering that the Infestor is IMO the most important part of Zerg lategame. 2-3 EMPs = 10+ USELESS Infestors.