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MUHAHAHAHAHA
Take that Time Spiral :p
Adept “-1 Damage to Light”
This was a solid suggestion from the community, and because TvP is most likely the biggest issue right now, we would like to try this change. Even though this would mean that Protoss is being double nerfed against Terran (along with the Overcharge nerf), we believe this might be okay as a lot of your feedback suggests that this matchup needs the most help, and we currently agree. We also like the fact that this specific change is a smaller nerf than changing Adept flag to Armored for the reasons you have all brought up.
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On January 14 2016 02:56 DinoMight wrote:
Sensor towers are just fine. The amount of information they provide is really worth the cost...
For the cost of like one tank you have a radar that covers a quarter of the map!
In a game with fog of war that's really useful info.
Sensor Towers are seeing more use in LotV, for sure--they are downright necessary in TvP, and more and more useful in TvP. Versus zerg, not as much, you can just assume that they're everywhere at all times : P
Comparatively, though, the Sensor Tower fills an interesting niche for Terran. It's infinitely weaker than creep: free, propagates, grants vision, obfuscates burrowed units, and does that whole passive-speed-buff-to-all-friendlies thing. Plus, supply-granting structures that get speed upgrades, can fly, and turn into spell casters (one of the spells being an energy scout that can't be detected, but has to be visually discovered). Sensor Tower plus scan is comparatively quite weak.
Now lets look at Protoss: permanently cloaked, inexpensive flying scouts; energy scouting with hallucination; Adept's psionic transfer; as well as the Oracle's stasis ward and revelation (revelation might be the best/most valuable scouting in the game). Again, Sensor Tower plus scan look comparatively weak (unless there is another supply-free energy scout that Terran has that I'm not using).
Every other method I mentioned grants pure vision, and sometimes also detects, and in most cases, does not risk supply or cost additional money, but is incidental to a unit storing up energy. The Sensor Tower only grants vision that "something is moving", and it won't even detect the movement of a cloaked or burrowed unit. Maybe Hi-Sec Auto-Tracking could change the tower's exclamation mark indicator to the silhouette of the unit (like if the units was behind a building)?
Just some casual observations. I think it's interesting to see some of the differences in things like "scouting", and more specifically, "energy scouting" or "supply-free scouting".
On January 14 2016 03:43 DinoMight wrote:MUHAHAHAHAHA Take that Time Spiral :p Show nested quote +Adept “-1 Damage to Light”
This was a solid suggestion from the community, and because TvP is most likely the biggest issue right now, we would like to try this change. Even though this would mean that Protoss is being double nerfed against Terran (along with the Overcharge nerf), we believe this might be okay as a lot of your feedback suggests that this matchup needs the most help, and we currently agree. We also like the fact that this specific change is a smaller nerf than changing Adept flag to Armored for the reasons you have all brought up.
Bravo, Dino! Truly. Well done, man. A well thought out suggestion that got put into the game. I think you're fine taking some credit for that. Frankly, I feel like you've grown into one of the voices of reason on this forum.
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On January 14 2016 08:51 TimeSpiral wrote:
Bravo, Dino! Truly. Well done, man. A well thought out suggestion that got put into the game. I think you're fine taking some credit for that. Frankly, I feel like you've grown into one of the voices of reason on this forum.
This is a scary thought :p
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On January 14 2016 09:11 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 08:51 TimeSpiral wrote:
Bravo, Dino! Truly. Well done, man. A well thought out suggestion that got put into the game. I think you're fine taking some credit for that. Frankly, I feel like you've grown into one of the voices of reason on this forum. This is a scary thought :p
Yes, it is, considering you were hardcore campaigning on how Zerg is overpowered and Blizzard just came out with their korean feedback and are completely against that line of reasoning now
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On January 14 2016 10:01 Merkmerk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 09:11 DinoMight wrote:On January 14 2016 08:51 TimeSpiral wrote:
Bravo, Dino! Truly. Well done, man. A well thought out suggestion that got put into the game. I think you're fine taking some credit for that. Frankly, I feel like you've grown into one of the voices of reason on this forum. This is a scary thought :p Yes, it is, considering you were hardcore campaigning on how Zerg is overpowered and Blizzard just came out with their korean feedback and are completely against that line of reasoning now
Korean pros can be whiny bitches at times. Rain said Terran was as broken as BL Infestor in HotS....
Like I think I said elsewhere.. game was really easy for Zerg when it first came out and perhaps they got complacent. Coupled with Protoss constantly trying to develop new strategies and this might just be a blip in an otherwise very Z favored MU.
We'll see. There's lots of games going on right now that we can use to judge.
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On January 14 2016 13:14 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 10:01 Merkmerk wrote:On January 14 2016 09:11 DinoMight wrote:On January 14 2016 08:51 TimeSpiral wrote:
Bravo, Dino! Truly. Well done, man. A well thought out suggestion that got put into the game. I think you're fine taking some credit for that. Frankly, I feel like you've grown into one of the voices of reason on this forum. This is a scary thought :p Yes, it is, considering you were hardcore campaigning on how Zerg is overpowered and Blizzard just came out with their korean feedback and are completely against that line of reasoning now Korean pros can be whiny bitches at times. Rain said Terran was as broken as BL Infestor in HotS.... Like I think I said elsewhere.. game was really easy for Zerg when it first came out and perhaps they got complacent. Coupled with Protoss constantly trying to develop new strategies and this might just be a blip in an otherwise very Z favored MU. We'll see. There's lots of games going on right now that we can use to judge.
So the korean pros are just wrong and the feedback and stats Blizzard has are just wrong.
It's really that Zerg had it so easy that they just got lazy and haven't developed new strategies.
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On January 15 2016 05:08 Merkmerk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 13:14 DinoMight wrote:On January 14 2016 10:01 Merkmerk wrote:On January 14 2016 09:11 DinoMight wrote:On January 14 2016 08:51 TimeSpiral wrote:
Bravo, Dino! Truly. Well done, man. A well thought out suggestion that got put into the game. I think you're fine taking some credit for that. Frankly, I feel like you've grown into one of the voices of reason on this forum. This is a scary thought :p Yes, it is, considering you were hardcore campaigning on how Zerg is overpowered and Blizzard just came out with their korean feedback and are completely against that line of reasoning now Korean pros can be whiny bitches at times. Rain said Terran was as broken as BL Infestor in HotS.... Like I think I said elsewhere.. game was really easy for Zerg when it first came out and perhaps they got complacent. Coupled with Protoss constantly trying to develop new strategies and this might just be a blip in an otherwise very Z favored MU. We'll see. There's lots of games going on right now that we can use to judge. So the korean pros are just wrong and the feedback and stats Blizzard has are just wrong. It's really that Zerg had it so easy that they just got lazy and haven't developed new strategies.
They are only then wrong when you don't like what they say but you usually defend them when they support your positions.
For the majority of TL disputants this translates into: When pros say T is up and Z/P is op then they are right. When they say anything but T is up then they are wrong. ;D
I stated already like 2-3 years ago in this forums/thread that opinions of pros are overrated and oftenly biased. BW was balanced by blizzard game designers only and it was almost perfect. SC2 continuously took all kind of pro feedback into account and sometimes feels like a total mess. Blizzard itself not only once reported that this kind of pro feedback is as many-sided as that of normal users e.g. in these forums.
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On January 14 2016 10:01 Merkmerk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2016 09:11 DinoMight wrote:On January 14 2016 08:51 TimeSpiral wrote:
Bravo, Dino! Truly. Well done, man. A well thought out suggestion that got put into the game. I think you're fine taking some credit for that. Frankly, I feel like you've grown into one of the voices of reason on this forum. This is a scary thought :p Yes, it is, considering you were hardcore campaigning on how Zerg is overpowered and Blizzard just came out with their korean feedback and are completely against that line of reasoning now
What would you need exactly?
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Seed vs Bomber.
Need I say more?
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On January 15 2016 21:27 SC2Toastie wrote:
Seed vs Bomber.
Need I say more?
Yeah.
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France13022 Posts
On January 15 2016 21:27 SC2Toastie wrote:
Seed vs Bomber.
Need I say more?
Was pretty balanced, 1/3 chances of chosing the wrong race for both players
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So in addition to the -1 damage, the adept upgrade needs some change too, unless there is some other kind of serious nerf to balance TvP early-mid game.
Shades being attackable for like 1/3 of the normal damage would be interesting imo.
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Don't use the Bomber vs Seed games as an example of imbalance. Bomber refused to scout for all 3 games and played extremely greedily, building a 3rd Command Centre before a third Barracks or even a Factory in game 4.
Incidentally, this also shows why statistics are inherently flawed, as players routinely make such grotesque errors that one cannot tell if they lose due to imbalance or due to sheer stupidity.
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I think shades having vision is the problem. -1 damage and lose vision and you can set traps.
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On January 15 2016 21:34 EatingBomber wrote:
Don't use the Bomber vs Seed games as an example of imbalance. Bomber refused to scout for all 3 games and played extremely greedily, building a 3rd Command Centre before a third Barracks or even a Factory in game 4.
Incidentally, this also shows why statistics are inherently flawed, as players routinely make such grotesque errors that one cannot tell if they lose due to imbalance or due to sheer stupidity.
Bomber played so he could survive the push, the adept drop and not roll over and die 100 % to the followup. Scouting wasn't needed for him as much. He predicted Seed's builds pretty well.
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On January 15 2016 19:26 LSN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 05:08 Merkmerk wrote:On January 14 2016 13:14 DinoMight wrote:On January 14 2016 10:01 Merkmerk wrote:On January 14 2016 09:11 DinoMight wrote:On January 14 2016 08:51 TimeSpiral wrote:
Bravo, Dino! Truly. Well done, man. A well thought out suggestion that got put into the game. I think you're fine taking some credit for that. Frankly, I feel like you've grown into one of the voices of reason on this forum. This is a scary thought :p Yes, it is, considering you were hardcore campaigning on how Zerg is overpowered and Blizzard just came out with their korean feedback and are completely against that line of reasoning now Korean pros can be whiny bitches at times. Rain said Terran was as broken as BL Infestor in HotS.... Like I think I said elsewhere.. game was really easy for Zerg when it first came out and perhaps they got complacent. Coupled with Protoss constantly trying to develop new strategies and this might just be a blip in an otherwise very Z favored MU. We'll see. There's lots of games going on right now that we can use to judge. So the korean pros are just wrong and the feedback and stats Blizzard has are just wrong. It's really that Zerg had it so easy that they just got lazy and haven't developed new strategies. BW was balanced by blizzard game designers only and it was almost perfect.
Wrong! BW was balanced by professional map makers. If you play it on official Blizzard maps, it is very unbalanced 
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On January 15 2016 21:34 EatingBomber wrote:
Don't use the Bomber vs Seed games as an example of imbalance. Bomber refused to scout for all 3 games and played extremely greedily, building a 3rd Command Centre before a third Barracks or even a Factory in game 4.
Incidentally, this also shows why statistics are inherently flawed, as players routinely make such grotesque errors that one cannot tell if they lose due to imbalance or due to sheer stupidity.
are you for real? the only viable build vs toss is exactly that build. you must always play deffencive and greedy to have a chance. you must always think that the protoss will use adept + warp prism. If you dont build a quiq 3rd cc, youre behind no matter what, because protoss have 3 bases fully saturated when you just stopped his adept harass. Its impossible to not do damage as toss now.
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On January 15 2016 21:36 Zera wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 19:26 LSN wrote:On January 15 2016 05:08 Merkmerk wrote:On January 14 2016 13:14 DinoMight wrote:On January 14 2016 10:01 Merkmerk wrote:On January 14 2016 09:11 DinoMight wrote:On January 14 2016 08:51 TimeSpiral wrote:
Bravo, Dino! Truly. Well done, man. A well thought out suggestion that got put into the game. I think you're fine taking some credit for that. Frankly, I feel like you've grown into one of the voices of reason on this forum. This is a scary thought :p Yes, it is, considering you were hardcore campaigning on how Zerg is overpowered and Blizzard just came out with their korean feedback and are completely against that line of reasoning now Korean pros can be whiny bitches at times. Rain said Terran was as broken as BL Infestor in HotS.... Like I think I said elsewhere.. game was really easy for Zerg when it first came out and perhaps they got complacent. Coupled with Protoss constantly trying to develop new strategies and this might just be a blip in an otherwise very Z favored MU. We'll see. There's lots of games going on right now that we can use to judge. So the korean pros are just wrong and the feedback and stats Blizzard has are just wrong. It's really that Zerg had it so easy that they just got lazy and haven't developed new strategies. BW was balanced by blizzard game designers only and it was almost perfect. Wrong! BW was balanced by professional map makers. If you play it on official Blizzard maps, it is very unbalanced
LT was a pretty solid map. Actually it was even several solid maps in one ;-)
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On January 15 2016 21:34 EatingBomber wrote:
Don't use the Bomber vs Seed games as an example of imbalance. Bomber refused to scout for all 3 games and played extremely greedily, building a 3rd Command Centre before a third Barracks or even a Factory in game 4.
Incidentally, this also shows why statistics are inherently flawed, as players routinely make such grotesque errors that one cannot tell if they lose due to imbalance or due to sheer stupidity.
Cyclone/3 CC is the most standard build for TvP there is.
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On January 15 2016 21:38 MiCroLiFe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2016 21:34 EatingBomber wrote:
Don't use the Bomber vs Seed games as an example of imbalance. Bomber refused to scout for all 3 games and played extremely greedily, building a 3rd Command Centre before a third Barracks or even a Factory in game 4.
Incidentally, this also shows why statistics are inherently flawed, as players routinely make such grotesque errors that one cannot tell if they lose due to imbalance or due to sheer stupidity. are you for real? the only viable build vs toss is exactly that build. you must always play deffencive and greedy to have a chance. you must always think that the protoss will use adept + warp prism. If you dont build a quiq 3rd cc, youre behind no matter what, because protoss have 3 bases fully saturated when you just stopped his adept harass. Its impossible to not do damage as toss now.
Lol, so the 'only viable build' in TvP is an extremely greedy Level 1 Infantry upgrades + quick 3rd CC BEFORE 3rd Barracks/Factory(game 4)? Jesus.
Yes, I know that Adepts/Warp Prism is rubbish, but I am just saying that Bomber made massive errors as well. In addition, you normally expect people to have at least 5 Barracks up before third CC if they suspect an all-in OR they want to play aggressively.
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EPT
