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A_needle_jog
Korea (South)699 Posts
On January 16 2016 01:36 PinoKotsBeer wrote: A mediocre toss can hold it easily, even while expanding. A mediocre toss can go 3 nexus and defend a 1 base 2 proxy rax terran cheese? How does it even work. As a zerg if I do 3 hatch then I don't even have spawning pool finished when the marines come knocking. | ||
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PinoKotsBeer
Netherlands1385 Posts
On January 16 2016 01:40 A_needle_jog wrote: A mediocre toss can go 3 nexus and defend a 1 base 2 proxy rax terran cheese? How does it even work. As a zerg if I do 3 hatch then I don't even have spawning pool finished when the marines come knocking. ah, i didnt see the quote you were quoting. Thought it was 2 nexus, but 3 nexus with 2 rax proxy isnt possible to defend (so far as i know) but if a terran does 2 rax and the toss deflects the attack its an insta win for toss. | ||
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p68
100 Posts
On January 15 2016 21:34 EatingBomber wrote: Don't use the Bomber vs Seed games as an example of imbalance. Bomber refused to scout for all 3 games and played extremely greedily, building a 3rd Command Centre before a third Barracks or even a Factory in game 4. Incidentally, this also shows why statistics are inherently flawed, as players routinely make such grotesque errors that one cannot tell if they lose due to imbalance or due to sheer stupidity. He prepared for adepts every match and that's what he saw in 3/4 games. The one game he didn't see adepts, he won (mass stalker). Not sure what you thought he missed, so elaborate if you don't mind. And if I recall correctly, Protoss got an earlier third out just about every game, so I don't see how Bomber was greedier... Game 1, he defended the adept drop flawlessly, but it's telling that it didn't put the Protoss behind one iota. It's not the first time we've seen this situation; GSL preseason had a lot of matches that played out very similarly, so I wouldn't consider this series to be an outlier. I think that's really a testament to how powerful early adept aggression is. It should put a player at least slightly behind if their early aggression fails to do damage, but it's just not the case. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On January 15 2016 21:40 LSN wrote: LT was a pretty solid map. Actually it was even several solid maps in one ;-) As someone who played Terran in BW I can say without bias that TvZ on that map was 100% "balanced"  ha ha ha | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On January 16 2016 01:40 A_needle_jog wrote: A mediocre toss can go 3 nexus and defend a 1 base 2 proxy rax terran cheese? How does it even work. As a zerg if I do 3 hatch then I don't even have spawning pool finished when the marines come knocking. That's because you're not your opponent. You're opponent can triple nexus into double carriers before you barracks is finished, but if you do it you die to marines. Classic balance whine logic | ||
Poopi
France12907 Posts
On January 16 2016 01:31 A_needle_jog wrote: What if 2 proxy rax marine rush ? (zerg player here. actually curious what would happen :D ) Marines allin suck hard against protosses nowadays even if they FE, it's not really viable since HotS. In WoL it was very good. | ||
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parkufarku
882 Posts
On January 16 2016 01:44 PinoKotsBeer wrote: ah, i didnt see the quote you were quoting. Thought it was 2 nexus, but 3 nexus with 2 rax proxy isnt possible to defend (so far as i know) but if a terran does 2 rax and the toss deflects the attack its an insta win for toss. When any race goes 2 hatch / 2 nexus / 2 CC and manages to defend a aggressive proxy all-in, it's a insta win for all races who managed to defend, not just toss. Stop trying to make an issue out of nothing | ||
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PinoKotsBeer
Netherlands1385 Posts
On January 16 2016 05:35 parkufarku wrote: When any race goes 2 hatch / 2 nexus / 2 CC and manages to defend a aggressive proxy all-in, it's a insta win for all races who managed to defend, not just toss. Stop trying to make an issue out of nothing Stop trying to find a message that isnt there. There isnt an issue, there isnt "qq-ing" nothing, all you do is pretending there is something while there isnt. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On January 16 2016 04:33 Poopi wrote: Marines allin suck hard against protosses nowadays even if they FE, it's not really viable since HotS. In WoL it was very good. Even in WOL is wasn't that good. It depended entirely on protoss missing his forcefield. | ||
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A_needle_jog
Korea (South)699 Posts
On January 16 2016 03:59 Thieving Magpie wrote: That's because you're not your opponent. You're opponent can triple nexus into double carriers before you barracks is finished, but if you do it you die to marines. Classic balance whine logic nonono I didn't whine  I was just asking curious question. | ||
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Poopi
France12907 Posts
On January 16 2016 05:49 royalroadweed wrote: Even in WOL is wasn't that good. It depended entirely on protoss missing his forcefield. Lol no marines scv were not that easy to scout & hold and stalkers were better than sentries if you opened FE | ||
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parkufarku
882 Posts
On January 16 2016 05:43 PinoKotsBeer wrote: Stop trying to find a message that isnt there. There isnt an issue, there isnt "qq-ing" nothing, all you do is pretending there is something while there isnt. Actually you were. You were defending a false statement from another biased poster who said: GreenHealing wrote: Protoss gets free 3 nexus against terran, no matter what terran does. Even after being corrected on 2 nexus, you proceeded to make Protoss sound super advantaged by singling Protoss out, saying they'll win on 2 base blocking proxy cheese all-in (which all races do). | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
-it has 2 missle pods in assault mode but can't shot air ... this make no sense - no need to build starport to answer enemy 's air but not truly prevent an mass air vs air battle ...lol - 2 walker viking from reactor factory can handle warp prism very good (even better than cyclone from my theory ) - good vs adept too (maybe give viking back 1 armor to handle better) - you need siege tank for armor unit like stalker cause viking good vs light unit only -act like meat shield for siege tank along with hellbat (like goliath from good old brood war ) - basically a upgraded goliath so no one will complain about bring back goliath anymore - has an upgrade boost speed fast as goliath so it won't die to disruptor and storm - thor AG vs armor, viking AG vs light, thor AA vs light , viking AA vs armor - the fighter mode will use for chasing easier , passing terrain, escape I can't denide the fact that viking will heavily overlap thor but to be honest thor is one of the worst design ever so i won't mind if blizzard let it die along with colussus, swarm host... still in the game but useless because design flaw // fun: terran dominion enginner created viking because ground-based anti-air support from goliath assault walkers was too limited in its mobility ..... so they must be retarded because no one solve weakness by bring another weakness.... | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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Weltall
Italy83 Posts
Honestly, I'm watching TY since the preseason and I feel he is the best terran atm, just because he is really deep in the meta. I think hots pro players want to adapt their hots style to lotv, while TY comes out since months with a fresh new style using a lot new lotv units. Terrans still have some harass potential: their time window just shifted. Fast exp is not suitable anymore, while an harass opening off 1 base with a later exp, will give terran tech and eco lead if executed properly. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
I'll be the first to say that we don't have indication of whether T is UP or OP or neither in the MU with the data we have have, but it's downright weird to make conclusions about that game. For example, you could claim that TY outplayed Patience to a large extent (having very good defence like only losing 2 scv to 2 DTs, incredible drop micro (G2, G4) while Patience made weird mistakes (splitting up his army on the ramp, losing it despite having a supply advantage (G1), suiciding units (G4), etc). You could also make reverse claims such that TY lost G3 because of not clearing the low ground before trying to land (Wintex made the claim in the LR), rather than the adepts doing enough damage and P having a major advantage going into the mid-game. I will say this much, the games looked wonky. In G3, a 3 base P went for adept harass which 2-base terran had to defend by sitting at home, building bunkers in mineral lines, adding tanks, vikings and that new unit I'd never seen used before  , but the T still died. On the other hand, this seemed to have led into an interesting lategame (G4 - where the defense was much more successful/Patience lost some early adepts) where both sides had numerous bases (albeit not all mining), but P was trying to suicide his econ. adv. into the more efficient T army. Whether that was just Patience playing poorly or is the new meta is to be established in the coming months (or the meta gets nerfed to oblivion). | ||
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On January 21 2016 01:24 Vanadiel wrote: The fact is that right now, Terran player perform quite well and does not seems so weak in any match up in Korea. The problem isn't the numbers, the problem is that when Terran loses TvP, it's off the back of shit that makes you want to pull your hair out. The gameplay of the game is bad. The longer it takes for Blizzard to patch shitty things like Adepts, the more time is wasted by Koreans on developing an inconsequential meta, thereby prolonging the time until we have a meta that's remotely stable. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On January 21 2016 01:29 pure.Wasted wrote: The problem isn't the numbers, the problem is that when Terran loses TvP, it's off the back of shit that makes you want to pull your hair out. The gameplay of the game is bad. The longer it takes for Blizzard to patch shitty things like Adepts, the more time is wasted by Koreans on developing an inconsequential meta, thereby prolonging the time until we have a meta that's remotely stable. Did they nerf the oracle when the same argument was made? How about DTs, has it ever been fun to lose to a DT rush? What about canon rush PvZ? Has there been a change just because it was stupidly frustrating? Forcefield on the ramp, was that ever adressed by a patch? the list of things that led to very anti-climactic games goes on and on. The game, and in particular PvX has always had tons of such strategies. They weren't adressed back then, don't know why you expect a change. The only times that they were adressed was when there was clear imbalance. If there is no imbalance, blizzard is going to leave the adept/prism in the game as it is and then Koreans (and everybody else, dunno why you highlight Koreans, I personally would be worried about my own playtime a billion times more) will have to use their time to learn the strategies that make it fair. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On January 21 2016 01:46 Big J wrote: Did they nerf the oracle when the same argument was made? How about DTs, has it ever been fun to lose to a DT rush? What about canon rush PvZ? Has there been a change just because it was stupidly frustrating? Forcefield on the ramp, was that ever adressed by a patch? the list of things that led to very anti-climactic games goes on and on. The game, and in particular PvX has always had tons of such strategies. They weren't adressed back then, don't know why you expect a change. The only times that they were adressed was when there was clear imbalance. If there is no imbalance, blizzard is going to leave the adept/prism in the game as it is and then Koreans (and everybody else, dunno why you highlight Koreans, I personally would be worried about my own playtime a billion times more) will have to use their time to learn the strategies that make it fair. They did address swarmhosts in hots and split mech upgrades in lotv. I guess blizz never touched protoss because it isn't as simple as nerfing something (with a few exceptions). | ||
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