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On August 15 2011 01:17 nGBeast wrote:
FXO left the SC2CON, how is choya going to deny that they were blocking them when FXOBoss just posted they left for that exact reason.
FXO left because of constant (empty, but still annoying) threats from SC2Con, ridiculous demands, midnight phone calls, etc.
Granted FXO did say that they are not involved in the NASL drama, and that it's only 1 person from SC2Con, but honestly, I think FXO is playing nice and being PR.
No matter how you spin this, it does reflect badly on the organization, and it does explain at least some things about the NASL situation, if not all.
It really doesn't matter whether the teams reached a decision "independently" if there are people in SC2Con willing to call you at midnight, willing to threaten you, etc.
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lol. the original press release by NASL had a very biased and lacking vibe to it, guess this was why
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On August 15 2011 01:15 sandyph wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 01:08 Maenander wrote:On August 15 2011 01:06 sandyph wrote:On August 15 2011 01:03 Maenander wrote:On August 15 2011 00:57 BronzeKnee wrote:
So individually all the Koreans decided to pass up on the chance to win huge money? Something isn't right here. Yeah, this doesn't make any sense, the offer from NASL seems to be fair. cant see what's fair about spending $1000+ out of your pocket to attend tournament where you can get knocked after 2 games its not for everybody, and look absolutely not for the Korean Did you even follow the discussion? Read the offer from NASL in season 2 again. did you read it ? NASL offer to give $1000 for transport & accommodation and to give $1000 prize even if you lose 1st round so the money team need to forked out up front are : $500 deposit + ~$500-600 for transport & accommodation (after substracting the $1000 that NASL gave) so that $1100 up front then 60 days later they will get their $500 deposit back and the $1000 prize so after 5 months they will get $400 at worst case scenario yeah, not for everybody
A guaranteed $400 is not enough? If they can't find someone who can lend them 1000$ for a few months then these teams have a bad managment.
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On August 15 2011 01:14 whateverpeeps wrote:
You know what, I really think at this point the teams involved and NASL need to sit down and talk.
I really wouldn't be surprised if certain team managers, or sc2con, have been pressuring and lying to the other teams to get them to not participate either.
Likewise, I really don't think NASL understands what the problem truly is.
This is the kind of negotiations that you don't go through 3rd and 4th parties. NASL didn't even know who they were talking to, and how could the teams then know what NASL was saying, since they barred contact and let someone else do the talking for them?
Get together, in a room, and talk this out. I really don't think this is a wise decision for either the players nor NASL, so it would be in both of their best interest to participate. But communication seems to have been terrible.
The problem is: nobody directly involved in this situation is actually talking to me. I have repeatedly contacted those in Korea that I know and nobody: a) knows who is directly behind Koreans withdrawing, b) responds to me with anything specific.
I have to rely on 3rd party information continuously because nobody actually bothers to contact me. Every Korean team has my contact info, and they can easily email, skype, or MSN msg me at any time, but they don't. I hear things through other people, and some of it turns out to be mis information, and some of it is accurate.
Either way, I'm just going to stay silent on the issue until I hear from someone official. This whole situation has gone on MUCH farther than intended. The fact of the matter is: Koreans didn't want to play NASL anymore, and they withdrew, and now we're going to replace them and continue with the Season.
They told me very last minute, so it had to delay the season. That's all. This is becoming way too dramatic
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On August 15 2011 01:10 Kieofire wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 01:06 sandyph wrote:On August 15 2011 01:03 Maenander wrote:On August 15 2011 00:57 BronzeKnee wrote:
So individually all the Koreans decided to pass up on the chance to win huge money? Something isn't right here. Yeah, this doesn't make any sense, the offer from NASL seems to be fair. cant see what's fair about spending $1000+ out of your pocket to attend tournament where you can get knocked after 2 games its not for everybody, and look absolutely not for the Korean What and everyone else in the tourney has to pay for their own trip? That is unfair to the players from Europe who have to take flights to the States with their own money, and the Korean players get paid to come over to the States like you want.
no, for everybody else the $1000 stipend and $1000 minimum prize is good enough since they dont have anything else to concentrate on (GSL)
so for them it make sense to take NASL offer
the Korean on the other hands looks to have their priority elsewhere, and probably seeing how Puma won the last one are all planning to play in open tournament instead without need to bother with the 3 months league
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Well hopefully people don't just auto side with playxp or the other korean media like they always do but...
Both sides are clearly confused they quote NASL from two different replies and claim it is the same? NASL though it was S2con but it wasn't but it is the same teams that are part of s2con but not using s2con as the official channel of width drawl? Why not?
Fishy shit from both sides.
The playxp article also has NOTHING to do with the original fact the koreans left the tournament after it started and contracts were signed anyways, they try diverge to the fact that NASL was calling "them" (the teams involved) s2con instead of individual teams not acting through s2con, and they try to act like its a huge deal and nasl is plotting against s2con?
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On August 15 2011 01:10 Kieofire wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 01:06 sandyph wrote:On August 15 2011 01:03 Maenander wrote:On August 15 2011 00:57 BronzeKnee wrote:
So individually all the Koreans decided to pass up on the chance to win huge money? Something isn't right here. Yeah, this doesn't make any sense, the offer from NASL seems to be fair. cant see what's fair about spending $1000+ out of your pocket to attend tournament where you can get knocked after 2 games its not for everybody, and look absolutely not for the Korean What and everyone else in the tourney has to pay for their own trip? That is unfair to the players from Europe who have to take flights to the States with their own money, and the Korean players get paid to come over to the States like you want.
Everyone else is paid $1000 as traveling stipend too. The problem is $1000 is not enough to cover a round trip flight + hotel, unless you book extremely early. For teams lacking sponsors in Korea, it is too high of a risk to take. For teams from Europe, they mostly have sponsors helping them cover the travel cost (from what I understand). So for Koreans, it looks like they have to pay out of their prize, while for Europeans, it looks like they receive the prize in full.
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On August 15 2011 01:06 sandyph wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 01:03 Maenander wrote:On August 15 2011 00:57 BronzeKnee wrote:
So individually all the Koreans decided to pass up on the chance to win huge money? Something isn't right here. Yeah, this doesn't make any sense, the offer from NASL seems to be fair. cant see what's fair about spending $1000+ out of your pocket to attend tournament where you can get knocked after 2 games its not for everybody, and look absolutely not for the Korean
Do you really believe $1000+ is the problem? what about players like MC, Nada, DRG, Genius, whole fxo. They are all sponsored, so they wont (and their team) even pay a single $, and they would most likely end ind the top and win alot of money.
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On August 15 2011 01:24 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 01:14 whateverpeeps wrote:
You know what, I really think at this point the teams involved and NASL need to sit down and talk.
I really wouldn't be surprised if certain team managers, or sc2con, have been pressuring and lying to the other teams to get them to not participate either.
Likewise, I really don't think NASL understands what the problem truly is.
This is the kind of negotiations that you don't go through 3rd and 4th parties. NASL didn't even know who they were talking to, and how could the teams then know what NASL was saying, since they barred contact and let someone else do the talking for them?
Get together, in a room, and talk this out. I really don't think this is a wise decision for either the players nor NASL, so it would be in both of their best interest to participate. But communication seems to have been terrible. The problem is: nobody directly involved in this situation is actually talking to me. I have repeatedly contacted those in Korea that I know and nobody: a) knows who is directly behind Koreans withdrawing, b) responds to me with anything specific. I have to rely on 3rd party information continuously because nobody actually bothers to contact me. Every Korean team has my contact info, and they can easily email, skype, or MSN msg me at any time, but they don't. I hear things through other people, and some of it turns out to be mis information, and some of it is accurate. Either way, I'm just going to stay silent on the issue until I hear from someone official. This whole situation has gone on MUCH farther than intended. The fact of the matter is: Koreans didn't want to play NASL anymore, and they withdrew, and now we're going to replace them and continue with the Season. They told me very last minute, so it had to delay the season. That's all. This is becoming way too dramatic
You are seriously surprised? NASL decides to make an entire post on TL with all the details yet the vibe from that is that the koreans are in the wrong and you didn`t think it would go much further with the drama? Give me a break, that post from NASL was just asking for drama.
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On August 15 2011 01:23 Maenander wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 01:15 sandyph wrote:On August 15 2011 01:08 Maenander wrote:On August 15 2011 01:06 sandyph wrote:On August 15 2011 01:03 Maenander wrote:On August 15 2011 00:57 BronzeKnee wrote:
So individually all the Koreans decided to pass up on the chance to win huge money? Something isn't right here. Yeah, this doesn't make any sense, the offer from NASL seems to be fair. cant see what's fair about spending $1000+ out of your pocket to attend tournament where you can get knocked after 2 games its not for everybody, and look absolutely not for the Korean Did you even follow the discussion? Read the offer from NASL in season 2 again. did you read it ? NASL offer to give $1000 for transport & accommodation and to give $1000 prize even if you lose 1st round so the money team need to forked out up front are : $500 deposit + ~$500-600 for transport & accommodation (after substracting the $1000 that NASL gave) so that $1100 up front then 60 days later they will get their $500 deposit back and the $1000 prize so after 5 months they will get $400 at worst case scenario yeah, not for everybody A guaranteed $400 is not enough? If they can't find someone who can lend them 1000$ for a few months then these teams have a bad managment.
a guaranteed $400 over 5 months period ?
thats even less than 3rd word country minimum wage (my home country for example where the minimum wage is $100 per month)
Team would prefer to focus their player effort elsewhere, heck even the code A give $180 if you lost in the first round. 5 months losing in code A first round already netted you $900, more than twice what NASL give
its all about priority since player cant do everything at once, and NASL looks to have dropped to the bottom of the list for Korean team, money wise
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On August 15 2011 01:28 mango_destroyer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 01:24 Xeris wrote:On August 15 2011 01:14 whateverpeeps wrote:
You know what, I really think at this point the teams involved and NASL need to sit down and talk.
I really wouldn't be surprised if certain team managers, or sc2con, have been pressuring and lying to the other teams to get them to not participate either.
Likewise, I really don't think NASL understands what the problem truly is.
This is the kind of negotiations that you don't go through 3rd and 4th parties. NASL didn't even know who they were talking to, and how could the teams then know what NASL was saying, since they barred contact and let someone else do the talking for them?
Get together, in a room, and talk this out. I really don't think this is a wise decision for either the players nor NASL, so it would be in both of their best interest to participate. But communication seems to have been terrible. The problem is: nobody directly involved in this situation is actually talking to me. I have repeatedly contacted those in Korea that I know and nobody: a) knows who is directly behind Koreans withdrawing, b) responds to me with anything specific. I have to rely on 3rd party information continuously because nobody actually bothers to contact me. Every Korean team has my contact info, and they can easily email, skype, or MSN msg me at any time, but they don't. I hear things through other people, and some of it turns out to be mis information, and some of it is accurate. Either way, I'm just going to stay silent on the issue until I hear from someone official. This whole situation has gone on MUCH farther than intended. The fact of the matter is: Koreans didn't want to play NASL anymore, and they withdrew, and now we're going to replace them and continue with the Season. They told me very last minute, so it had to delay the season. That's all. This is becoming way too dramatic You are seriously surprised? NASL decides to make an entire post on TL with "no transparency" yet the vibe from that is that the koreans are in the wrong and you didn`t think it would go much further with the drama? Give me a break, that post from NASL was just asking for drama.
That surprises you from Xeris? He's as good as casting than being the PR guy...
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On August 15 2011 01:28 mango_destroyer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 01:24 Xeris wrote:On August 15 2011 01:14 whateverpeeps wrote:
You know what, I really think at this point the teams involved and NASL need to sit down and talk.
I really wouldn't be surprised if certain team managers, or sc2con, have been pressuring and lying to the other teams to get them to not participate either.
Likewise, I really don't think NASL understands what the problem truly is.
This is the kind of negotiations that you don't go through 3rd and 4th parties. NASL didn't even know who they were talking to, and how could the teams then know what NASL was saying, since they barred contact and let someone else do the talking for them?
Get together, in a room, and talk this out. I really don't think this is a wise decision for either the players nor NASL, so it would be in both of their best interest to participate. But communication seems to have been terrible. The problem is: nobody directly involved in this situation is actually talking to me. I have repeatedly contacted those in Korea that I know and nobody: a) knows who is directly behind Koreans withdrawing, b) responds to me with anything specific. I have to rely on 3rd party information continuously because nobody actually bothers to contact me. Every Korean team has my contact info, and they can easily email, skype, or MSN msg me at any time, but they don't. I hear things through other people, and some of it turns out to be mis information, and some of it is accurate. Either way, I'm just going to stay silent on the issue until I hear from someone official. This whole situation has gone on MUCH farther than intended. The fact of the matter is: Koreans didn't want to play NASL anymore, and they withdrew, and now we're going to replace them and continue with the Season. They told me very last minute, so it had to delay the season. That's all. This is becoming way too dramatic You are seriously surprised? NASL decides to make an entire post on TL with "no transparency" yet the vibe from that is that the koreans are in the wrong and you didn`t think it would go much further with the drama? Give me a break, that post from NASL was just asking for drama.
Something tells me he was attempting to contact them well before the post on TL came.... The fact that it took 10 days to get a response from the Korean teams and then another 5, that had to come through Mr. Chae even, should tell you that.
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It might be a benefit to NASL to send a representative to Korea to meet with teams/players face to face.
The NASL representative sent would have to be a decision maker within the organization, and a translator should accompany them. Not just wing it and find a translator when they arrive overseas.
It would really help to elevate NASL's image.
I'm sure NASL realizes that the Korean withdrawals will impact their revenue.
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There's to many things changing with these series of events that I just don't know what to believe anymore.
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It would be really great if someone did some actual investigation of this issue and did an all encompassing article.
Right now, all we are doing is rehashing press releases from different organizations and no one really has the whole story.
I would hope someone with good relationships and contacts in the SC2 world would put on a journalism hat and start making some good articles on these issues.
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On August 15 2011 01:29 sandyph wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 01:23 Maenander wrote:On August 15 2011 01:15 sandyph wrote:On August 15 2011 01:08 Maenander wrote:On August 15 2011 01:06 sandyph wrote:On August 15 2011 01:03 Maenander wrote:On August 15 2011 00:57 BronzeKnee wrote:
So individually all the Koreans decided to pass up on the chance to win huge money? Something isn't right here. Yeah, this doesn't make any sense, the offer from NASL seems to be fair. cant see what's fair about spending $1000+ out of your pocket to attend tournament where you can get knocked after 2 games its not for everybody, and look absolutely not for the Korean Did you even follow the discussion? Read the offer from NASL in season 2 again. did you read it ? NASL offer to give $1000 for transport & accommodation and to give $1000 prize even if you lose 1st round so the money team need to forked out up front are : $500 deposit + ~$500-600 for transport & accommodation (after substracting the $1000 that NASL gave) so that $1100 up front then 60 days later they will get their $500 deposit back and the $1000 prize so after 5 months they will get $400 at worst case scenario yeah, not for everybody A guaranteed $400 is not enough? If they can't find someone who can lend them 1000$ for a few months then these teams have a bad managment. a guaranteed $400 over 5 months period ? thats even less than 3rd word country minimum wage (my home country for example where the minimum wage is $100 per month) Team would prefer to focus their player effort elsewhere, heck even the code A give $180 if you lost in the first round. 5 months losing in code A first round already netted you $900, more than twice what NASL give its all about priority since player cant do everything at once, and NASL looks to have dropped to the bottom of the list for Korean team, money wise
A lot of the players in korean teams earn nothing in prize money over a period of 5 months, and 1 game a week late at night won't really occupy them full time. I fully understand that some of the top players don't want to bother with NASL, but for most korean pro-players this is a golden opportunity. They play the game every day anyway. It just doesn't make sense.
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This is ridiculuous. The level is apparently low.
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Xeris I hope you get this figured out, it all seems like a big fucking pain. I'm rooting for you, keep doing what you do.
Also, I hope you don't let Korean teams that pulled their players participate in the open tournament. I'd of course love to see those players but if they can't respect you enough to do this properly I don't think they deserve your money.
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On August 15 2011 01:27 Veldril wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2011 01:10 Kieofire wrote:On August 15 2011 01:06 sandyph wrote:On August 15 2011 01:03 Maenander wrote:On August 15 2011 00:57 BronzeKnee wrote:
So individually all the Koreans decided to pass up on the chance to win huge money? Something isn't right here. Yeah, this doesn't make any sense, the offer from NASL seems to be fair. cant see what's fair about spending $1000+ out of your pocket to attend tournament where you can get knocked after 2 games its not for everybody, and look absolutely not for the Korean What and everyone else in the tourney has to pay for their own trip? That is unfair to the players from Europe who have to take flights to the States with their own money, and the Korean players get paid to come over to the States like you want. Everyone else is paid $1000 as traveling stipend too. The problem is $1000 is not enough to cover a round trip flight + hotel, unless you book extremely early. For teams lacking sponsors in Korea, it is too high of a risk to take. For teams from Europe, they mostly have sponsors helping them cover the travel cost (from what I understand). So for Koreans, it looks like they have to pay out of their prize, while for Europeans, it looks like they receive the prize in full.
American and European dont seems to understand that its more expensive to travel from Asia to Europe/NA compared to travels between Europe-NA
you need to book weeks and even months in advance to get a good price, unless you take those flight that stop over somewhere in the Middle East for hours which can turn 12 hours flight into 20+ hours
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EPT
