EPTvVv Academy Re Launches - Page 9
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akalarry
United States1978 Posts
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SugarBear
United States842 Posts
On August 14 2011 11:05 Polskaa wrote: Sugarbear, People are trying to show you you dont have to appear at LANs to be a powerhouse in this community. by putting the rule you have to go to LANs to play for us means you are missing out on ALOT of good talent. If youre looking for NEW players why would you narrow down options example: vVv basketball team is looking for a new center The center has to be atleast 7'3 or he cannot join the team This example shows that you are cutting youre chances of finding a good player. Just becuase a player isnt 7'3(in this case pay for his trips to MLG) does not mean he is not dedicated or just as good or even BETTER than the 7'3 player. Dont want the good talent on your team? Your choice If you can beat top level players consistently in online tournaments chances are you are going to get picked up and joining the vVv Academy is a waste of your time... | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
On August 14 2011 10:01 iCCup.Diamond wrote: Just for the record on the PR side of things (as I do PR and have done PR), repeatedly telling users they know nothing and you are too smart to explain it to them is not a good thing. Instead you break it down and help them see your side. well, we all are obviously too stupid to see their sides of the story even if he were to try and explain it to us. | ||
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genius_man16
United States749 Posts
On August 14 2011 11:20 SugarBear wrote: If you can beat top level players consistently in online tournaments chances are you are going to get picked up and joining the vVv Academy is a waste of your time... Obviously yes. But isn't the point of an ACADEMY to take people NOT at that skill level and help cultivate them so that they can one day get to that skill level? Perhaps the entire problem with this post is that it's not an "Academy" at all, and just a recruitment thread. | ||
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SugarBear
United States842 Posts
On August 14 2011 11:09 Jawmare wrote: > implying vVv is kind of a big deal (in SC II community) Suggesting that vVv is not one of the biggest NA SC2 communities would be a bit difficult to back up... We are certainly not more important than any other SC2 community, but the level of support vVv gaming has shown for SC2 and given the size of the organization, we represent a very large active community of SC2 players and fans. | ||
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duk3
United States807 Posts
The only problem that I really have with the idea is that you have to attend all the lan events, paying for them yourself, or you might get removed from the team. I feel like everything else is completely reasonable, helpful to your SC2 skill and gets you exposure as a player. However, if you have to attend lan events, than you have to have the money in order to go to them, and once you do, you may lose first round to a good player and then be left with nothing. | ||
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SugarBear
United States842 Posts
On August 14 2011 11:23 genius_man16 wrote: Obviously yes. But isn't the point of an ACADEMY to take people NOT at that skill level and help cultivate them so that they can one day get to that skill level? Perhaps the entire problem with this post is that it's not an "Academy" at all, and just a recruitment thread. The two go hand in hand, don't they? Name one University or sports team without a recruitment office? (peewee league doesn't count) The point of the Academy is to take people NOT at that skill level and help cultivate them so that they can one day get to that skill level. If they can get to that skill level and still can't afford to attend a LAN I'm sure the community or management would find a way to make it happen (as was the case with vVv Reo). | ||
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Moa
United States790 Posts
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templar rage
United States2509 Posts
On August 14 2011 05:47 SugarBear wrote: Lots of feelings of entitlement so far in this thread. Are there any players serious about personal development in a structured environment who want to comment? Are you implying that because we don't agree with your approach, we cannot possibly be serious about improving? Because I would love an opportunity like the one you're presenting. I'm in what seems to be a fairly unique position where I could probably manage to get myself to multiple MLGs this year, so I could fulfill that portion. But a lot of people aren't. I honestly cannot fathom how you and Sweep fail to understand that concept. I also cannot understand what makes you guys think that the approach you're taking ITT is at all in the best interest of this project. | ||
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Arcanne
United States1519 Posts
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JonnyLaw
United States3482 Posts
But wow. Wow, wow, wow the vVv representatives in this thread are dicks. Quit being condescending, arrogant assholes to people asking honest questions about the workings and motivation of this academy. As a community we are entitled to ask questions and receive answers. If you think otherwise, don't bring your academy into the public light. And again, quit being dicks. | ||
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EggYsc2
620 Posts
They have results in big tournaments you dont | ||
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cheesemaster
Canada1975 Posts
On August 14 2011 06:29 vVvSweep wrote: If you are a known player, getting sponsorship requests from other teams, performing well in online tournaments and just too broke to attend any LAN then we can talk in private. If you aren't in that position then you can feel free to continue to be unsponsored or you can try out for the vVv Academy for a chance to prove yourself with your prospective sponsor watching. Performance at a LAN is a VERY important part of proving your skill and value and that is why it is part of the process. I dont really understand, NO ONE from the VVV team has done well at a major lan as far as i know (no top 10's thats for sure) so why are they sponsored and considered valuable (if you even do pay for them to go to lans , wich i assume you do) and someone who placed first in the academy (wich is a reasonable feat) you cant even give them a try at a lan event or 2? Its not like VVV is some top tier prestigious team in sc2, im sure people would be willing to pay their way to LANS for a chance to get on a major top tier team like liquid , EG , MOUZ, but for VVV a team that really hasnt had any success in offline events (wich you claim are so important) i just dont see it. | ||
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Deception-35
United States113 Posts
On August 14 2011 11:38 Moa wrote: The arguments are somewhat moot, vVv has only received one application since this thread went up. It is clear that most potential applicants feel that vVv is expecting too much and giving too little otherwise they would likely have more apps. I was the one who applied, i think this would be great as long as they DO NOT expect me to go to every single MLG etc. i will be able to go to the ones in my area but thats about it. | ||
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SugarBear
United States842 Posts
On August 14 2011 11:39 templar rage wrote: Are you implying that because we don't agree with your approach, we cannot possibly be serious about improving? Because I would love an opportunity like the one you're presenting. I'm in what seems to be a fairly unique position where I could probably manage to get myself to multiple MLGs this year, so I could fulfill that portion. But a lot of people aren't. I honestly cannot fathom how you and Sweep fail to understand that concept. I also cannot understand what makes you guys think that the approach you're taking ITT is at all in the best interest of this project. I think a lot of people are overreacting about the LAN attendance requirement. It's entirely possible that you won't be dropped for missing a LAN, in fact most people seem to think that requirement is onerous. The OP says the OPTION to drop someone for low attendance exists. Obviously if you are a skilled player and we think you are working hard to improve we aren't going to drop you. Likewise I think someone who can't afford to go to LANs has a much better shot at making it as a pro with the resources and support of the vVv Community behind them, than they do on their own. I think a very vocal minority of people who feel they should be payed for essentially nothing has done a very good job of putting this opportunity in a negative light. It's unfortunate that they have managed to derail the thread and dissuade potential applicants, but there's really nothing I can do about that. Team Liquid is Team Liquid and although there are some quality posters here, the trolls far outnumber them. Edit: I just want to clarify that I was not calling the majority of posters with legitimate concerns in this thread trolls, only the ones accusing vVv of exploiting their players or generally speaking negatively of vVv. I feel like this comment was unfairly taken out of context when I put a lot of effort into addressing peoples' legitimate concerns. | ||
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Moa
United States790 Posts
Having the resources of vVv behind someone who can't afford lans would be excellent, its too bad people in the academy won't have those resources? Actually that is the whole issue. | ||
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SugarBear
United States842 Posts
On August 14 2011 11:41 JonnyLaw wrote: Wow, I had a lot of respect for the vVv team and the events you guys host. Hell, I even understand what you're doing with this academy, even if it is questionable why someone would want to pay for practice partners essentially. But wow. Wow, wow, wow the vVv representatives in this thread are dicks. Quit being condescending, arrogant assholes to people asking honest questions about the workings and motivation of this academy. As a community we are entitled to ask questions and receive answers. If you think otherwise, don't bring your academy into the public light. And again, quit being dicks. Case in point, regarding the thread being derailed. In no way is vVv asking for monetary compensation from Academy members, yet you assume as a result of the trolling that we are. And now you see me and Sweep as dicks despite us defending the Academy and potential members from trolls saying things that are simply untrue about the Academy. I have done my best to defend the Academy from false accusations, and I would think potential applicants would want to see vVv representative defend them from trolls, rather than have people think they are stupid for joining an organization that just wants to exploit them. | ||
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
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rei
United States3594 Posts
On the other hand, a team trying to help and develop talented players who shown potential at the game is willing to pay their players and help them gain valuable offline lan experiences, even if said player don't show any results. But then again, a person as intelligent as the vVvsweep, he has to be well aware of this fact, by even bring this up i'm actually insulting his intelligence. He obviously has his reasons why he would propose for the players to pay for their own traveling to attend lan, and attending lan is a requirement to stay on the team. As for his reason, he need not let us know because there is no way someone as stupid as I am can even remotely come close to understanding the logic behind this complex business operation. Even if he were to try, it would be a major waste of time, and he has wasted enough time on me by even replying to my post which was trying to but unsuccessfully defend the honor of vVv. | ||
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SugarBear
United States842 Posts
On August 14 2011 12:10 Moa wrote: Calling people who disagree with you the vocal minority or trolls is just silly. How many applications do you have? Having the resources of vVv behind someone who can't afford lans would be excellent, its too bad people in the academy won't have those resources? Actually that is the whole issue. It's pretty obvious there is a group of people trolling this thread. Exploitation for offering people the chance to be a member of an organization like vVv and potentially become sponsored? On what planet is that not trolling? | ||
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