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Honestly its just that Blizzards way of balancing is just really retarded.
First of all they see a unit not getting used very much.
So they make the build time faster or require less tech.
Then every single player starts experimenting with them because of the change.
A whole lot of balance complaints ensue.
Blizzard sees this and nerfs the crap out of them by making the damage lower.
Now the unit is useless not only early game, but also late game.
Why is this stupid?
Lets look at the state of the game when seeker missile / tank / etc was buffed.
(Seeker Missile moved to Starport Tech Lab)
(Factory cost/build-time significantly reduced / iirc Tank build time reduced)
At that time maps were really small so games never got to late game.
This meant that late game units never got used, or you were never able to get enough of high-tier units because you would just get rolled over. It's not that they weren't useful, its that games never got to the stage where they could be useful.
The most retarded balancing decision Blizzard could make (and this is what they ended up doing), is by making high-tier units require less tech. Completely forgetting, the reason high-tier units/spells are hard to get, is because they are too imbalanced mid-game but are still absolutely vital late-game.
So obviously by making all this stuff way easier to get, Terran suddenly became imbalanced. They now have so many tech choices, and so many powerful units early on in the game. So what does Blizzard do, the stupidest thing of all, nerf the damage.
Why is this stupid? Because now Terran doesn't have a late game composition, and now Blizzard reckons the colossus/broodlord-infestor is imbalanced. No, its because Terran late game choices got nerfed to oblivion because Blizzard made them too easy to get when they weren't absolutely required.
It would be so awesome if Seeker Missiles could be used to take out colossi/broodlords/infestors, or for Tanks to be more viable against Protoss. This can only happen if you make Tanks and Seeker Missile require more tech, only then can you increase the damage back to an acceptable level.
Edit: I'm not complaining about Terran, I just used them as an example. Same can be said about other races, people wouldn't complain about Infestor if it was hive-tech, or Void Rays if it required a fleet beacon. Hell you could pretty much make Void Rays back to Beta stats if Blizzard did that.
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Just because you don't use a unit a lot doesn't mean it doesn't get used or doesn't have a use. Infestors weren't used for a long time even after their most recent buff. They are still underused and most p/t players think they're quite powerful.
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I think they should buff the graviton catapult's icon color like they did with blue flame.
It would make people use more carriers.
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To be honest, if you're not at the highest level of play you shouldn't really be suggesting changes.
This is turning into a "buff my race cause we are weak and nerf X race because they OP!"
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just delete the carrier its useless and noone uses it
and add a unit that has some kind of thing we can play around and to break the metagame.
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On August 14 2011 04:32 Crying wrote:
just delete the carrier its useless and noone uses it
and add a unit that has some kind of thing we can play around and to break the metagame.
Honestly I would rather they removed Void Rays, its better than a Carrier and doesn't need a Fleet Beacon. Its also no where near as cool as Carriers.
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I cant really comment on balance but i do find uses for ultras with infestors personally.
Broods are probably better more often but in some situations they are bad.
Units get netter and worse though depending on current trends i think - a lot more than their crapness.
I do think that every unit should be viable, redundant units just spoil the game for noobs and create more work for balancing as they must always be considered.
I am glad that protoss is evolving to coep with new HT for example. I was fairly sure that unit had just been killed - and its role as i understood it had - but its coming back with the archon buff.
I think the balance needs to be allowing time for evolution of style vs making small changes to encourage new ideas without upsetting other areas too much.
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On August 13 2011 23:07 unit wrote:
the game is fine, honestly the main reason a lot of units arent used is because they are situational, the carrier requires you to be on 5-6 base to tech to safely and be able to get them out in high number in a reasonable amount of time, but it is possible and with this scenario it would do quite well in a few battles assuming the opponent doesnt have a critical mass of vikings/corruptors
the raven is being used just fine, its a support unit not a main army unit and is seeing use at the pro level (mainly TvT it seems)
the problem with the ultralisk is that it dies too easily to enemy compositions, to buff this however would make it an imba unit, there are still situations where the ultra can be used and there are other situations where the BL can be used better, currently BL infestor is the go to composition for zerg against terran and protoss but its not the only one, ultralisk/queen (preferably with some hydra/ling support) does rather well due to transfuse micro and ultras never dying its quite fine
Hmm, I think the raven is far from fine. Considering that terran dont even get them in TvZ (burrow banelings) and TvP (late game DT). Iono about you but burrow baneling can be game changer and yet no terran get raven anyways.
Same goes with late game DT. Do you know how hard it is when you have like 5 bases and they are all being swiped by DTs? Yet no terran get raven. I think Select had a game vs whitera and select had the same situation and he just burn scan. He probably burned about 6 scan to cleared it all and then head to whitera base.
You can argue that PDD timing is strong but it would seem to me that terran need better mobile detection.
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i dont want this to end with complaining over generell balance or ahything in that sort so please stop that ...like sluggaslamoo
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terran has mobile detection that does stuff ... protoss would complain.
overseers are probably underused in their spells imo.
I think ravens as a general unit do seem lacking ... it the homing missile that i think sucks, takes so much energy and does tn really do that much on its own. PDD is kinda sick when you combine it with marines/marauder and stim vs protoss - but then i really cant compare army sizes as im not good enough. Its like meeting mass carrier or void ray ... maybe you shouldn't let it get to that situation.
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They should really consider improving the bunker upgrade, at the moment it only gives it 2 more slots it should give it at least 50 hp extra, making bunkers a little more better as the game goes on.
There is no reason to get the Neo-Steel Frames upgrade at the moment, 2 more slots in bunkers, non upgraded command centers and planetary fortresses.
The armor upgrade for buildings is also a very strong upgrade, yet few use it, it's extremely strong specially vs fast hitters like lings/marines.
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Ravens are used a ton, look at high level TvT
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On August 14 2011 04:48 CubY wrote:
i dont want this to end with complaining over generell balance or ahything in that sort so please stop that ...like sluggaslamoo
What I'm trying to say is its not about buffs and nerfs. Its much more complicated than that, which Blizzard doesn't seem to understand, which is why even though they have such a balanced game in terms of statistics, the gameplay has suffered and races are extremely un-even at different stages of the game.
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Scouts in SC:BW were unused. Now they are just used to bm.
WE NEED MORE BM UNITS :D
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The armor upgrade for buildings is also a very strong upgrade, that few use it, specially vs fast hitters like lings/marines.
Yes, building armor upgrade makes PFs even harder to kill and considering the amount of resources we float in the late game, more people should get this.
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I still think that Mothership and Mass Recall got an use , like mana uses it in pvz to mass recall into enemys base and then keep forcefielding the ramp.
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Blizzard should slow down and let us players fix our game instead of making blizzard do it for us.
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wish they would revert back the BC ground damage nerf :'(
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On August 14 2011 00:06 petered wrote:
"They should buff the hellion, no one ever uses that useless unit"
That was the general thinking not long ago. Then SlayerS has a little marine/zergling/zealot barbeque and now everyone uses hellions.
The moral of the story is, some units may be in a great spot, but no one uses them correctly.
This is not always true though. David Kim said he was not OK with the Archon being underused for so long and gave it 3 range + the "massive" property. 2 range was way too short considering they are so fat they end up tripping over each other trying to get into range.
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I think buffing units because they are underused is wrong. Underused is very subjective, even more than 'balance', also some unit only have uses in very specific situations.
@ sluggaslamoo , good post but its not on topic.
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EPT
