|
These are the type of reasons you see koreans on foreign teams, they have the players, we have the money.
|
If I'm not wrong, weren't Koreans disappointing at how their travel and hotel and practice setup was last NASL? Isn't it indicative that it's NASL's fault when Koreans have relatively few problems with the MLG-GSL exchange?
|
On August 12 2011 14:10 Devolved wrote:
It sucks that an organization can make this decision for all the players and all the teams. Shouldn't it be up to each team whether or not they can afford to send their players?
That strikes me odd as well. Why can't teams just decide this on their own? Why does this have to be a committee decision? Not every team is in the same financial situation and some have deals with foreign teams to have their players travel around.
|
On August 12 2011 14:09 JSy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 13:59 DyEnasTy wrote:On August 12 2011 13:47 JSy wrote:
So to summarize. (and to make it clearer I'll just focus on the numbers, i.e. MONEY, here)
Assume a Korean player that gets through the 2 months of league (plenty of people have already discussed what this entails for players and why some have said they probably won't play in NASL anytime soon) and made it to Ro16.
Let's see what they were guaranteed for NASL 1 and what was offered was NASL 2:
NASL 1
Ro16 prize: $500
Travel and accommodations provided by NASL (previously stated to have cost ~$1700)
Total value of making it to NASL Ro16: ~$2200
NASL 2
Ro16 prize: $1000 (raised by NASL to help cover costs for players having to travel to the finals event)
Travel stipend for Korean players: $1000
Total value of making it to NASL Ro16: $2000
NASL1 vs NASL2
~$2200 vs $2000 (PER PLAYER)
Not a big difference, but one maybe SC2Con coaches were not expecting to have to cover PER PLAYER.
So, despite all of the changes and concessions NASL made to try and help Korean players compete in NASL, the guaranteed earnings are lower.
And of course there are plenty of other factors: conflicts with other competitions/GSL this time around, changes in travel/accommodations cost for the players managing that on their own.
Not to mention, with the way the prize pool was restructured not only is the guaranteed Ro16 prize smaller (for the Koreans), but the potential prize from advancing in the finals bracket is also smaller.
For those that seem to want to hash out the soundness of the decision making on the part of the Koreans. That's my take. But honestly, it's up to the teams and players which tournaments they choose to participate in and we haven't heard a statement on why they chose to withdraw from NASL 2 so why the churn!?
What I am really interested in is why it happened so late and note beforehand, as SlayerS did? NASL in the OP clearly is painting SC2Con in a bad light, but what's the full story?
Maybe they were expecting the same accommodations by NASL that they received for NASL 1? Which, if I did it right above, were better in NASL 1 than is offered in NASL 2 (despite NASL trying to word it as if they are making even more concessions).
Is it really just childish revenge for how the signing of Puma went down? I.e., well you say you were fine in talking to Puma and you took him from us (TSL/Korea) because we didn't have a contract with him so now we're gonna screw you by pretending to participate right up until we actually sign a contract neener neener neeener. (I REALLY hope this isn't it... *facepalm*)
Anyway, I now go back to eyeing PlayXP for any news/response. Did I miss the part where they said they paid for travel besides the $500 in season 1? Nope you didn't, I missed the part where they gave $500 and just helped with travel by paying for plane tickets up front and later deducting those from winnings. Edited to hide the misinformation. Show nested quote +And then you turn around and throw shit saying that all koreans are shoving a giant middle finger in the air to NASL due to the PuMa incident? And no, I specifically say I hope that isn't what they are doing. lol (In seriousness, I doubt that would be the case. It'd just be too ridiculous and reek of bad drama if it were the reason behind the decision.)
Ok, and I didnt mean to come off like such a dick.
|
On August 12 2011 14:10 Devolved wrote:
It sucks that an organization can make this decision for all the players and all the teams. Shouldn't it be up to each team whether or not they can afford to send their players?
The organization is made up of coaches, managers and even players of each team (except slayers). Evidently they felt the playing condition wasn't satisfactory.
|
On August 12 2011 14:10 Devolved wrote:
It sucks that an organization can make this decision for all the players and all the teams. Shouldn't it be up to each team whether or not they can afford to send their players?
Its like if Major League Baseball decided to have a tournament and invited teams from say Japan and the Japanese league said 'They arent coming unless you pay for all their travel expenses' and MLB says no. The Japanese then say 'Our players aren't coming' The teams/players have to listen to the league, they don't have a choice regardless of whether they want to actually go.
|
Personally I'm okay with this, and even a little happy that the NASL will be a more foreigner friendly event.
There's still some Koreans, but I'll be more emotionally invested in the season and finals seeing less Koreans.
|
On August 12 2011 14:07 tripper688 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 13:43 whateverpeeps wrote:
Overall this topic is just beginning to state the same thing again and again.
I'm under the opinion that NASL is obligated to cover their costs (staff, studio, prize pool), and teams are obligated to cover THEIR costs (players, travel, etc).
The sole reason why teams exist is because it allows players to focus on gaming while team management focuses on getting sponsors to pay for the players' expenses, such as food and travel.
Because the responsibility of food and travel does not fall into the NASL's hands, any stipend is more than generous. They are preoccupied with covering their own expenses to be worried about the expenses of others. I never heard oGs/TSL/etc offering to pay NASL for hosting a tournament, and likewise NASL doesn't owe anything to the teams. Both are in the business of getting sponsors, and both have the responsibility to make sure they have enough of it.
If the players felt that it was not worth it, they have a right to that decision. What they do not need is a fake organization making the decision for them and prohibiting them from making the decision for themselves under the threat of ostracism. Shouldn't fair playing conditions be part of what NASL has to cover as well? And right now because they don't have the sponsorship or funding...the teams are doing the only thing they can do by asking NASL. If negotiations fall apart, they fall apart. Things like that happen. Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 13:48 Xavv wrote:
Kind of disappointing that they couldn't work something out.
It doesn't look good for the Korean scene to be so demanding with wanting 100% of travel + other expenses. I can't imagine how the Korean scene would respond if it was expected that Koreans pay for Foreigners travel to play in the GSL and other leagues.
Good luck to the NASL in continuing, I'm sure everything will be fine either way It's not like GSL has an exchange program with MLG and does tournaments where foreigners can basically win an all expenses paid trip into Code A...oh wait. GSL has bent backwards far more to accommodate foreigners in the current GSL than NASL has right now. Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 13:55 SuitGuy wrote:On August 12 2011 13:52 Jehct wrote:
This could actually be a really big blunder on NASL's part. If you compare NASL and IPL, NASL was getting ~9k viewers and IPL is getting ~6-7k on average. The biggest difference between the two was the player pool - in every other way NASL is pretty much inferior (even the finals were plagued with technical problems). NASL's viewers were also rising - IPL's have been falling as people lose interest in the lower caliber of play.
As arguable 'unfair' as the Koreans requests were, this lack of Korean presence could really hurt the viewer numbers for NASL. People are seriously losing interest in any foreigner that isn't 100% top-tier (Idra, Naniwa, Thorzain, Huk) or a fan favourite (TLO, Destiny). I can't imagine even the NASL finals being good now: chances are whatever Korean-trained player turns up will roflstomp the competition (Puma). Doesn't it seem more likely that teams will see the $100,000 prize pool won by "inferior players" and cave? NASL basically offered a $100,000 free roll here and all the Koreans have to do is wake up early? THIS IS WHAT THEY DO FOR A LIVING. Sometimes your job requires you to work weird hours, man the fuck up and do your job. You're right, who cares about an even playing field where no single group of players have to bend backwards to play odd hours in poor conditions.
Again, this is a FREEROLL. All of the players in the event pay $0 to potentially win a large share of $100,000.
This isn't a poker tournament where everyone pays an entry that goes to the prize pool. This is free. When stuff is free, you don't have a say in "fairness". It is FREE.
NASL is putting up a lot of money to run this already. If that requires Koreans (who are on the other side of the planet relative to where the production takes place) to wake up early then so be it. It is a FREEROLL. As in FREE. Did I get across the free part yet?
|
On August 12 2011 14:05 StUfF wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 13:59 DyEnasTy wrote:On August 12 2011 13:47 JSy wrote:
So to summarize. (and to make it clearer I'll just focus on the numbers, i.e. MONEY, here)
Assume a Korean player that gets through the 2 months of league (plenty of people have already discussed what this entails for players and why some have said they probably won't play in NASL anytime soon) and made it to Ro16.
Let's see what they were guaranteed for NASL 1 and what was offered was NASL 2:
NASL 1
Ro16 prize: $500
Travel and accommodations provided by NASL (previously stated to have cost ~$1700)
Total value of making it to NASL Ro16: ~$2200
NASL 2
Ro16 prize: $1000 (raised by NASL to help cover costs for players having to travel to the finals event)
Travel stipend for Korean players: $1000
Total value of making it to NASL Ro16: $2000
NASL1 vs NASL2
~$2200 vs $2000 (PER PLAYER)
Not a big difference, but one maybe SC2Con coaches were not expecting to have to cover PER PLAYER.
So, despite all of the changes and concessions NASL made to try and help Korean players compete in NASL, the guaranteed earnings are lower.
And of course there are plenty of other factors: conflicts with other competitions/GSL this time around, changes in travel/accommodations cost for the players managing that on their own.
Not to mention, with the way the prize pool was restructured not only is the guaranteed Ro16 prize smaller (for the Koreans), but the potential prize from advancing in the finals bracket is also smaller.
For those that seem to want to hash out the soundness of the decision making on the part of the Koreans. That's my take. But honestly, it's up to the teams and players which tournaments they choose to participate in and we haven't heard a statement on why they chose to withdraw from NASL 2 so why the churn!?
What I am really interested in is why it happened so late and note beforehand, as SlayerS did? NASL in the OP clearly is painting SC2Con in a bad light, but what's the full story?
Maybe they were expecting the same accommodations by NASL that they received for NASL 1? Which, if I did it right above, were better in NASL 1 than is offered in NASL 2 (despite NASL trying to word it as if they are making even more concessions).
Is it really just childish revenge for how the signing of Puma went down? I.e., well you say you were fine in talking to Puma and you took him from us (TSL/Korea) because we didn't have a contract with him so now we're gonna screw you by pretending to participate right up until we actually sign a contract neener neener neeener. (I REALLY hope this isn't it... *facepalm*)
Anyway, I now go back to eyeing PlayXP for any news/response. Did I miss the part where they said they paid for travel besides the $500 in season 1? And then you turn around and throw shit saying that all koreans are shoving a giant middle finger in the air to NASL due to the PuMa incident? NASL provided accomodation and air fares but all costs were deducted from prize money.
thats in addition to the $500 travel stipend.
|
On August 12 2011 13:44 To3-Knee wrote:
I couldn't go through the whole thread to find out if this has been discussed yet, but how are they going to replace the Korean players?
With mediocre european/american players who couldn't qualify previously due to lack of skill.
|
On August 12 2011 14:18 jyLee wrote:
It would be a HUGE mistake to not get the koreans to come no matter the cost. Get the fucking best players out there to play in your tournament or its a complete joke. I dont want to see minor league players and I sure as hell wouldnt pay to see terrible players who think its ok to practice <4 hours and still compete at the pro level.
You realize at some point it becomes pointless to spend the amount of money that they want NASL to right?
|
It's been a century since I last traveled to the US, but I have to say even back then $2000 was a laughable compensation for a round trip with a week of stay. A fixed sum would work for kids, but Koreans are shrewd businessmen and wouldn't accept risks on themselves. Why not just use a standard scheme: refund all travel expenses upon arrival and provide hotel or housing free of charge?
|
Hero, Puma and Rain will do just fine for me, gonna be just as interesting as ever !
|
Thing is, it's almost 'free money' if they chose to compete in the open tournament and win that.
And the playing times for the season is really bad. For a long period of time.
So if I was Korean, and thought I could win it, I would just skip the season, and enter the open tournament. If I didn't win that, no big loss, if I did, a good chance for a good reward.
|
On August 12 2011 14:17 DueSs wrote:The North American Star League is North American at last. 
Posts like these just make me wonder. You have no issues with Europeans but do with Koreans?
|
On August 12 2011 14:21 Reasonable wrote:
It's been a century since I last traveled to the US, but I have to say even back then $2000 was a laughable compensation for a round trip with a week of stay. A fixed sum would work for kids, but Koreans are shrewd businessmen and wouldn't accept risks on themselves. Why not just use a standard scheme: refund all travel expenses upon arrival and provide hotel or housing free of charge?
You're over 100 years old? My god!
Jokes aside as mentioned previously in the thread, costs for the flight, hotel, and food came to ~1650 for this season. $2000 would cover it.
|
oh well.. this sucks. i was excited to see Korean domination
|
ignorant punks.. more money to foreign players, i like it.
|
On August 12 2011 14:17 DueSs wrote:The North American Star League is North American at last.
Filled with Europeans and Taiwanese. Go USA!
|
while i guess i can understand the korean side of things, but some issues i have with this are the huge amount of disrespect and lack of professionalism in deciding to only pull out at the last moment, but also the reasoning that they don't have the sponsors. there are foreign sponsors that froth at the idea of having a korean wear their logo, and there are co-sponsored players within the teams making refusals that are ready and willing to pay.
i don't see the point in this union, i haven't heard anything positive come out of it, but already multiple negative things. are they that dumb that they don't think to use foreign contacts to acquire foreign sponsors that know how many people love watching koreans? just seems like the union is little more than a tool you (as a korean team) use to leverage your personal opinions for better or worse against the rest of the teams in your community. it doesn't look like it actually improves the stability of the scene from the outside, though i'm sure they've worked on a lot of things that aren't dramatic enough to make it to TL.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
