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On August 12 2011 14:27 Slider954 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 14:18 jyLee wrote:
It would be a HUGE mistake to not get the koreans to come no matter the cost. Get the fucking best players out there to play in your tournament or its a complete joke. I dont want to see minor league players and I sure as hell wouldnt pay to see terrible players who think its ok to practice <4 hours and still compete at the pro level. Really?? So NASL should just bend over and let them have whatever they want just cause of who they are? Think about how that would look to the other players. Plus if you give in once, it makes it progressively easier and easier to give in later down the line. Its a very slippery slope and not a smart way to run a fledgling business.
Slippery slope arguments are logical fallacies. Do not use them.
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i have to say i not even that sad ...
we can see them every day in GSL often in MLG etc so its nice to see some new faces perhaps now (i REALLY hope there will be replacements!!!)
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Looks like history does repeat itself....
kespa2 has emerged!
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On August 12 2011 14:32 DueSs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 14:23 babo213 wrote:On August 12 2011 14:17 DueSs wrote:The North American Star League is North American at last.  Posts like these just make me wonder. You have no issues with Europeans but do with Koreans? I'll rephrase: North American Star League is more North American at last.
Which is a bad thing considering the general skill level of the players are accepted to be considerably inferior to the EU and Korean Scenes. Also who gives a shit about the name, it's held in North America, thats all it means.
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Well it's a shame that the Korean Association had to decline. Is it unfair from them to make such huge demands? Maybe. The format / the costs etc are too huge in their eyes.
Is it NASL's fault? Not at all. They tried to meet their demands as far as they could go in their eyes.
Will the quality of the games decline? Probably.
But atleast 1 thing is for sure :D NASL will continue regardless if the Koreans are coming or not.
Atleast we're going to get Hero/PuMa/Rain which are quite good as well imo and could provide more entertaining games as the foreigners probably have more chance vs them as they are training with them 
I hope DRG/Genius could participate as well as MC/NaDa due to that merge with col/mvp and sk/ogs. Gonna be an interesting league nonetheless :D
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On August 12 2011 14:35 Jinivus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 14:32 DueSs wrote:On August 12 2011 14:23 babo213 wrote:On August 12 2011 14:17 DueSs wrote:The North American Star League is North American at last. Posts like these just make me wonder. You have no issues with Europeans but do with Koreans? I'll rephrase: North American Star League is more North American at last. Which is a bad thing considering the general skill level of the players are accepted to be considerably inferior to the EU and Korean Scenes. Also who gives a shit about the name, it's held in North America, thats all it means.
USA, USA, USA.
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On August 12 2011 14:32 CoR wrote:
whjats with Nada and MC since they are in SK doesnt SK pay their trip ?
It seems like since the 'SC2CON' organization made the ruling, all the korean-based teams that are affiliated with them cannot participate, at least from what's been said.
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On August 12 2011 14:35 DueSs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 14:35 Jinivus wrote:On August 12 2011 14:32 DueSs wrote:On August 12 2011 14:23 babo213 wrote:On August 12 2011 14:17 DueSs wrote:The North American Star League is North American at last. Posts like these just make me wonder. You have no issues with Europeans but do with Koreans? I'll rephrase: North American Star League is more North American at last. Which is a bad thing considering the general skill level of the players are accepted to be considerably inferior to the EU and Korean Scenes. Also who gives a shit about the name, it's held in North America, thats all it means. USA, USA, USA.
T T Troll, T T Troll, T T Troll.
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On August 12 2011 14:34 getty wrote:
Looks like history does repeat itself....
kespa2 has emerged!
I doubt it, the West won't allow it. They can do their own thing in Korea but tournament organizers outside of Korea won't likely lie down for them.
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That's too bad. Still get to see Hero and PuMa, though. This is still going to be an awesome season, but it would have been really cool to see all the Koreans.
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On August 12 2011 14:32 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 14:29 tripper688 wrote:
...This isn't a poker tournament where you go pay and play. They basically play for nothing in unfair conditions for 3 months in order for a chance to win some or basically none of the prize pool. Most events are run basically like a poker tournament, you pay the entree fee (travel) and you compete for the prize. This isn't the case here. If you want to draw poker analogies, it would be if the WSOP had a 3 month online qualifier for players around the world that players had to play through before going to WSOP for the money event. Now imagine if all the players from Europe had to play at 4am in the morning (with an added latency penalty however you want to add that in) while everyone else played at normal times. Given the fact that there is other stuff around, would it be surprising to see Europeans pulling out of this hypothetical event? You really don't want to bring Poker into this in general. WSOP has millions of dollars in prize money. NASL's prize pool is scant in comparison. They wouldn't pull out because millions of dollars were on the line.
Ok, replace WSOP with random poker tournament that has a total $100,000 prize pool. That would only make it more likely for players to pull out.
On August 12 2011 14:33 SuitGuy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 14:29 tripper688 wrote:
...This isn't a poker tournament where you go pay and play. They basically play for nothing in unfair conditions for 3 months in order for a chance to win some or basically none of the prize pool. Most events are run basically like a poker tournament, you pay the entree fee (travel) and you compete for the prize. This isn't the case here. If you want to draw poker analogies, it would be if the WSOP had a 3 month online qualifier for players around the world that players had to play through before going to WSOP for the money event. Now imagine if all the players from Europe had to play at 4am in the morning (with an added latency penalty however you want to add that in) while everyone else played at normal times. Given the fact that there is other stuff around, would it be surprising to see Europeans pulling out of this hypothetical event? It would very much surprise me. I played poker for a long time and woke up at odd hours all the time to play in huge free rolls. Poker players would man the fuck up and play a free roll because it is free money. Europeans wouldn't pull out of this event. And I already said as much that it wasn't a poker tournament. Look at my post, I said the players have $0 invested in the tournament. When you have nothing invested in the tournament you have little ground to stand on in my book when it comes to negotiating conditions.
Apparently time isn't an investment? They're in this for 3 months before they even get to the point where travel becomes an issue. That's 3 months of potential conflict with training and scheduling for other events that DON'T have issues concerning playing conditions. I agree with you 100% if it was just the issue with travel but the problem is, it's a time commitment that they could do other things with.
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That's too bad. I'm convinced NASL S2 will still be great though! =)
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On August 12 2011 14:35 DueSs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 14:35 Jinivus wrote:On August 12 2011 14:32 DueSs wrote:On August 12 2011 14:23 babo213 wrote:On August 12 2011 14:17 DueSs wrote:The North American Star League is North American at last. Posts like these just make me wonder. You have no issues with Europeans but do with Koreans? I'll rephrase: North American Star League is more North American at last. Which is a bad thing considering the general skill level of the players are accepted to be considerably inferior to the EU and Korean Scenes. Also who gives a shit about the name, it's held in North America, thats all it means. USA, USA, USA.
If you're going to just post like an idiot and not contribute, why bother.
All the speculation and bashing in this thread is really unnecessary, probably best to wait for a statement from sc2con
Edit: you're*
stupid phone
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On August 12 2011 14:33 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 14:32 CoR wrote:
whjats with Nada and MC since they are in SK doesnt SK pay their trip ? They're in OGS, which are part of SC2con, so it's my understanding that they'd be barred from going by SC2con.
Where does it say they are barred?
Stop making assumptions.
SC2CON used their collective power to try to bargain for better conditions.
Negotiations fell through and as a result several teams have withdrawn their players from NASL.
No where does it say that SC2CON has forbidden players or banned teams from sending players.
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Even though I understand many users on the forum are probably students or in the early stage or their careers, it's still amazing to me how many of you don't understand the business aspect of the issue: the importance of having a fixed cost structure for NASL, and the fact that Koreans are doing this because they believe they have more leverage AFTER they have qualified. Koreans KNEW about the travel expenses when they signed up for season 2, so let's not act like they just discovered it costs money to fly across pacific.
I do not know what the contract stipulates. If the contract parameters allow Koreans to bargain for more travel stipends, then it's their right to do that. Personally I consider it unethical (albiet probably legal) business practice to pull a power play like this in the last second.
I applaud NASL to stand the ground.
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NASL will be better in the sense that there should be less schedule conflicts now and there won't be as much of a taint on some outcomes because of things like latency and play times. It will be worse in the sense that the best players will no longer be represented and with that, a decrease in the level of play.
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On August 12 2011 14:41 StUfF wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 14:33 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 14:32 CoR wrote:
whjats with Nada and MC since they are in SK doesnt SK pay their trip ? They're in OGS, which are part of SC2con, so it's my understanding that they'd be barred from going by SC2con. Where does it say they are barred? Stop making assumptions. SC2CON used their collective power to try to bargain for better conditions. Negotiations fell through and as a result several teams have withdrawn their players from NASL. No where does it say that SC2CON has forbidden players or banned teams from sending players.
did you even read the OP?
After many hours spent working with our sponsors and writing proposals, it is with our great displeasure to announce that Koreans from oGs, Startale, WeMadeFox, TSL, and Prime will not participate in the NASL.
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On August 12 2011 14:34 Cathasaigh wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 12 2011 14:30 TooN wrote:
They dont wanna play. Get over it and stop criticizing the teams and the decisions they are making.
No one here knows the exact reasons why this is happening. So stop making up reasons and bashing people. They can be criticized very strongly for the way they did this. They waited till the last second and made demands when they knew full well what the conditions were when they first signed up. This is completely on them, completely unprofessional, and very much something for which they can be criticized.
Nowhere in the OP does it say that the koreans waited til the last second to bring this up, where is this information coming from?
Koreans agreed to the season 1 conditions, and abided fully by them. Second season comes round and they want to negotiate some of the conditions. The two parties can't come to a 'reasonable' solution, so the Koreans say its a no-go.
I don't understand where the unprofessional nature of what they did comes into this? Re-negotiating the contract at the end of the season seems like a pretty reasonable expectation to me, or were the Koreans hooked into that same contract indefinitely, until NASL folds?
I am sure most people would prefer it that a more amicable solution was found that kept the Koreans in the NASL, but sometimes thats the way the cookie crumbles.
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On August 12 2011 14:41 StUfF wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 14:33 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 14:32 CoR wrote:
whjats with Nada and MC since they are in SK doesnt SK pay their trip ? They're in OGS, which are part of SC2con, so it's my understanding that they'd be barred from going by SC2con. Where does it say they are barred? Stop making assumptions. SC2CON used their collective power to try to bargain for better conditions. Negotiations fell through and as a result several teams have withdrawn their players from NASL. No where does it say that SC2CON has forbidden players or banned teams from sending players.
Maybe not is so many words, but how do you think SC2CON would react if a team or players did particpate.....
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Isn't it way, way harder for foreigners to make it to GSL? They pay their own flights, are guaranteed no money, no spots, only housing?
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EPT
