On August 12 2011 14:51 lim1017 wrote: Does anyone remember when one of the GSL guys (mr.chae?). Said if the scenes were reversed and the big scene was over here (which it is in this case) top players would come LIVE in america for the chance to compete.
Now they won't even pay the costs over 2000?
The NASL does not qualify as "the big scene." It's one tournament. It's not the global center of the SC2 scene. What he said doesn't apply here.
Really sad day... And amazing amount of ridiculous comments, as always^^
God damnit, why are the Korean teams not able to get some more sponsors... (yes, thats what i "blame" them for, not that they dont take a financial gamble and basically play for free for several months)
I wonder how many of the people that are saying what the Koreans did was unethical, underhanded etc were quick to defend EG's signing of Puma as just business and there's no room for being nice or ethical in business, its a cutthroat world etc.
On August 12 2011 14:44 Shamrock_ wrote: Isn't it way, way harder for foreigners to make it to GSL? They pay their own flights, are guaranteed no money, no spots, only housing?
Depends, if they get in through GOM sponsored events like Sase or MLG like Nani, then no. If otherwise, then yes. The difference is all of GSL is (I guess you can consider it) LAN so they have to be there in Korea. NASL is online so there isn't as big of a deal concerning long term travel. And there is no guarantee on NASL money either. If you place high enough, you get paid...same as GSL.
...This isn't a poker tournament where you go pay and play. They basically play for nothing in unfair conditions for 3 months in order for a chance to win some or basically none of the prize pool. Most events are run basically like a poker tournament, you pay the entree fee (travel) and you compete for the prize. This isn't the case here. If you want to draw poker analogies, it would be if the WSOP had a 3 month online qualifier for players around the world that players had to play through before going to WSOP for the money event. Now imagine if all the players from Europe had to play at 4am in the morning (with an added latency penalty however you want to add that in) while everyone else played at normal times. Given the fact that there is other stuff around, would it be surprising to see Europeans pulling out of this hypothetical event?
You really don't want to bring Poker into this in general. WSOP has millions of dollars in prize money. NASL's prize pool is scant in comparison. They wouldn't pull out because millions of dollars were on the line.
Ok, replace WSOP with random poker tournament that has a total $100,000 prize pool. That would only make it more likely for players to pull out.
On August 12 2011 14:33 SuitGuy wrote:
On August 12 2011 14:29 tripper688 wrote:
...This isn't a poker tournament where you go pay and play. They basically play for nothing in unfair conditions for 3 months in order for a chance to win some or basically none of the prize pool. Most events are run basically like a poker tournament, you pay the entree fee (travel) and you compete for the prize. This isn't the case here. If you want to draw poker analogies, it would be if the WSOP had a 3 month online qualifier for players around the world that players had to play through before going to WSOP for the money event. Now imagine if all the players from Europe had to play at 4am in the morning (with an added latency penalty however you want to add that in) while everyone else played at normal times. Given the fact that there is other stuff around, would it be surprising to see Europeans pulling out of this hypothetical event?
It would very much surprise me. I played poker for a long time and woke up at odd hours all the time to play in huge free rolls.
Poker players would man the fuck up and play a free roll because it is free money. Europeans wouldn't pull out of this event. And I already said as much that it wasn't a poker tournament. Look at my post, I said the players have $0 invested in the tournament. When you have nothing invested in the tournament you have little ground to stand on in my book when it comes to negotiating conditions.
Apparently time isn't an investment? They're in this for 3 months before they even get to the point where travel becomes an issue. That's 3 months of potential conflict with training and scheduling for other events that DON'T have issues concerning playing conditions. I agree with you 100% if it was just the issue with travel but the problem is, it's a time commitment that they could do other things with.
Time is an investment but the investment is tiny. You say 3 months but you only play 1 match per week. Really you should call it 1.5 hours/week for 9 weeks. That is a 13.5 hour investment to free roll for $100,000. Conditions for working aren't always ideal, but sometimes you just have to deal with it. This is a sweet deal for anyone who participates in the NASL. The committee is way out of line to take that away from the players considering the deal NASL put on the table.
That's 3 months where you can't do other LANs for fear of NASL conflicts. 3 months where your 10 hour a day training is thrown off on a weekly basis. We saw last NASL what happened when players tried to do multiple tournaments. It goes far beyond the 14 hour investment that you spend only playing the game. I'm not saying I wouldn't jump at the deal. I'm saying that for a pro team/gamer with commitments and who want the best chance to succeed, it might not be as appealing and I can understand that.
I don't think people know realize how expensive round trip tickets are between Korea and the US, especially during busy travel times/on shorter notice. Also, there's the opportunity cost involved. I think most of the top teams/players would rather spend time preparing for the GSL unless there's a good incentive (most likely financial) to do otherwise. Kind of a crappy how it played out, but foreign players should be happy they might make some money.
I still think a 2,000 is still a ridiculously low price for 16th place after 10 weeks of competition when first place win 40,000. This is a league, not a tournament, so adjust your prize pool to reflect that.
On August 12 2011 14:57 theBizness wrote: I don't think people know realize how expensive round trip tickets are between Korea and the US, especially during busy travel times/on shorter notice. Also, there's the opportunity cost involved. I think most of the top teams/players would rather spend time preparing for the GSL unless there's a good incentive (most likely financial) to do otherwise. Kind of a crappy how it played out, but foreign players should be happy they might make some money.
Its already been stated both by NASL and TL that a cost of a round trip ticket from Korea would be around 1200, really not that bad, all things considered.
I can't believe how judgamental and rash TL posters are. Always trying to point one side as the villain and another as the hero.
Both organizations tried the best to protect their interests, a compromise could not be reached and thats it. Do you have to like the decisions made? No, but I can't believe how some people suddenly seem to come off as hateful.
Good luck for NASL I am sure it will still be a good season and gl to the Korean teams, hope you guys can secure more sponsors so that travelling costs are not an issue in the future
Well, very sad news. I bought the pass the last season,and the final phases made it for all the problem we had to endure as a "beta customer". I don't like to say that in a bold way, but without any Korean the competition will be even more skewed, I won't be watching it since I am only interested to watch the highest level of Starcraft 2.
On August 12 2011 14:57 theBizness wrote: I don't think people know realize how expensive round trip tickets are between Korea and the US, especially during busy travel times/on shorter notice. Also, there's the opportunity cost involved. I think most of the top teams/players would rather spend time preparing for the GSL unless there's a good incentive (most likely financial) to do otherwise. Kind of a crappy how it played out, but foreign players should be happy they might make some money.
Its already been stated both by NASL and TL that a cost of a round trip ticket from Korea would be around 1200, really not that bad, all things considered.
You're still losing money if you compare that to the $1000 travel stipend. Like I said though, I think the bigger issue is the opportunity cost regarding time commitment etc.
On August 12 2011 14:57 theBizness wrote: I don't think people know realize how expensive round trip tickets are between Korea and the US, especially during busy travel times/on shorter notice. Also, there's the opportunity cost involved. I think most of the top teams/players would rather spend time preparing for the GSL unless there's a good incentive (most likely financial) to do otherwise. Kind of a crappy how it played out, but foreign players should be happy they might make some money.
Its already been stated both by NASL and TL that a cost of a round trip ticket from Korea would be around 1200, really not that bad, all things considered.
You're still losing money if you compare that to the $1000 travel stipend. Like I said though, I think the bigger issue is the opportunity cost regarding time commitment etc.
There's a minimum extra you will earn for 16th place. But yeah, then you have to factor in the 9 weeks of waking up at the crack of dawn.
On August 12 2011 14:17 DueSs wrote: The North American Star League is North American at last.
Posts like these just make me wonder. You have no issues with Europeans but do with Koreans?
I'll rephrase: North American Star League is more North American at last.
Which is a bad thing considering the general skill level of the players are accepted to be considerably inferior to the EU and Korean Scenes. Also who gives a shit about the name, it's held in North America, thats all it means.
I guess Minor League Baseball is a bad thing too.
Wait no it isn't.
Instead of having the Koreans come over and crush everyone and give no one a chance to show their skills and possibly get on teams, players can make names for themselves and further develop the foreign scene. If anything this is great for us.
If you want Koreans, there's GSL and MLG for a reason. Not like you're gonna suddenly not see Koreans at all.
On August 12 2011 14:59 windsupernova wrote: I can't believe how judgamental and rash TL posters are. Always trying to point one side as the villain and another as the hero.
Both organizations tried the best to protect their interests, a compromise could not be reached and thats it. Do you have to like the decisions made? No, but I can't believe how some people suddenly seem to come off as hateful.
Good luck for NASL I am sure it will still be a good season and gl to the Korean teams, hope you guys can secure more sponsors so that travelling costs are not an issue in the future
On August 12 2011 14:58 Rokk wrote: This is a league, not a tournament, so adjust your prize pool to reflect that.
I think Puma has something to say about that.
Oh and for anyone who's wants to see underdogs/hidden talents rather than the big names: NASL's invitation only format in season 1 prevented exactly that anyway. There's many more Koreans who fit the criteria to be the next Puma, having skills but lack of stage experience keeping them from GSL spotlights and whatnot.
EPT
pretty boring without koreans. (and tl don't warn me for this, its just a personal opinion that i should be able to express freely)
