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On August 12 2011 13:10 PHC wrote:Anyone else think this is revenge for the whole EG/Puma incident? Hear me out, and discuss. Think about it chronologically: 1.) Coach Lee speaks out on Puma situation2.) Majority of Korean community showed disappointment and shock over the way Puma was recruited, which was triggered during NASL Grand Finals. 3.) Writer on SC2Con is publicly outraged, saying an emergency meeting to protect the players needs to take place so another incident like this is prevented. 4.) Said emergency meeting takes place. It seems the Koreans blame NASL for letting the EG/Puma happen under their watch and this is their message for the Puma incident. Koreans are some of the most mannered people on the planet, but the moment they feel disrespected, they will generally unite as a community and send a message. Sucks for NASL though, because they lost out huge on this one.
so EG is killing esports?
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On August 12 2011 13:11 Redlol wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 13:01 Blasphemi wrote:On August 12 2011 12:57 Redlol wrote:
Nazgul said earlier that he thinks it's reasonable for the Koreans to try to preserve their scene, and I think that's a good point. It's likely a defensive measure by the Koreans to prolong the true explosion of ESPORTS outside their country. People still consider Korea the place to be, and if the NASL is truly competitive that might not be the case anymore, especially with the recent exodus of Koreans to pro-teams.
Give it another year and Koreans will be begging to play in American and European tournaments, they can't preserve their scene forever. Never read something so ridiculous. Koreans have preserved their starcraft scene for ten years with zero foreign help. You literally didn't think about anything when you replied to this did you? "Koreans have preserved their starcraft scene for ten years with zero foreign help." That doesn't even remotely apply here, this statement doesn't make any sense. I'll clarify what I said based on what I think you meant though, BW in Korea is still bigger than SC2, of course the Koreans preserved the BW scene just fine. They will NOT preserve their SC2 scene, at least not in comparison to the foreign scene. The foreign scene WILL blow the Korean scene out of the water within one year. It's in the interests of the Koreans to prevent that from happening for as long as they can.
But you got to see that the Korean players are a tier higher.
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On August 12 2011 13:01 bovi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:54 dabom88 wrote:
HERE'S A QUESTION TO NASL:
If you say that 2000 dollars should "more than cover" the expenses... then why not just agree to cover all the expenses? It would cost you less than 2000 dollars shouldn't it?
Really, if you claim that the offer is reasonable and that it should cover the player's expenses, why NOT just cover the player's expenses? great point. personally i think those particular korean teams were not happy with NASL 1st revised offer and then suddenly their 2nd revised offer got to $2000. The koreans might feel the NASL were just trying to squeeze them as much as possible. If the 1st revised offer was $2000 straight, things might be different. counting in prize money as reimbursement of travel & lodging is not classy. who knows, maybe the other korean teams might send players. would FXO send any of theirs there?
no kidding i was thinking somebody must be bullshitting here... plus all those inconvenient times to play, this isnt very profitable for many korean players to bother dealing with
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I have a question.. Will MC's SK foreign tourney thing allow him to go to the nasl?
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On August 12 2011 13:11 Kavas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:55 goswser wrote:
Wow why would they not come with an offer of a 2000 dollar stipend....thats just stupid, their winnings would more than cover their expenses..... That's because it's not a 2000 dollar stipend. It's 1000 stipend and 1000 from the player's own prize money.
Where'd you get that from? From what I understood, that was the offer for Season 1, but for Season 2, they are giving all Koreans 1000, and then an additional 1000 for traveling. Which I guess means that if they qualify for finals, they get 2000 (which makes sense, because they wouldnt need to travel if they dont make finals).
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I 100% believe that this was purposely done by the nasl. Don't be mad and suspend / ban me for my opinion but nasl bureaucracy has already made it clear they want north American big bucks staying in north American hands. This press release was an absolute sham and a cop out to appeal to the masses that might pay for the tickets still. It's pretty disgusting that they still went through with this. Cats and incontrol won, apparently, yet lost in the long run as sales will absolutely plummet for season 2, includIng my and friends business.
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On August 12 2011 13:11 Kavas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:55 goswser wrote:
Wow why would they not come with an offer of a 2000 dollar stipend....thats just stupid, their winnings would more than cover their expenses..... That's because it's not a 2000 dollar stipend. It's 1000 stipend and 1000 from the player's own prize money. NASL has cleverly worded it so it seems what they're offering is generous but it's really not. So as a Korean pro I would have to endure 9 (days in 9) weeks of hiccups in my sleeping schedule to just compete. Assuming I get to Finals, I would have endure travel and jet lag, bad playing conditions (from what I gather from threads), and then more competition. Not only that but I would have provide for my own accommodations from my own prize money with absolutely no guarantee on the rest of the prize pool. So all in all, I'm only guaranteed an earning of ~400 U.S dollars for 9 weeks of work.No wonder the Koreans declined. I can earn more than that amount in that time period working part-time for McDonalds. Idra earns more than that for the amount he charges for his coaching for a single session. There conditions are completely unacceptable for a professional league, especially one claiming to be a future top league.
I would understand this, if they had taken this stance from the beginning. If they had backed out before the qualifiers, I would understand. But backing out now, AFTER the NASL has decided the player pool, schedule (and has begun playing matches), and signed contracts agreeing too those things, leaves NASL with a giant mess. THAT is the unprofessional part. No SlayerS players either. Because they backed out earlier, and I can respect that. But not at this time and place.
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UOTE]On August 12 2011 13:07 magnaflow wrote:
On August 12 2011 13:05 tripper688 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 13:03 nanaoei wrote:On August 12 2011 12:55 Disquiet wrote:On August 12 2011 12:48 tripper688 wrote:On August 12 2011 12:44 Disquiet wrote:On August 12 2011 12:36 ke_ivan wrote:
Yeah Korea is far away from pretty much everywhere and the cost to fly is expensive. So I'm not surprised they pulled out - they probably don't have the upfront cash. They did do this late though, so bad planning there. Even if they went on a young person's ticket, that would cost US$1250. A weak US Dollar obviously helps, but imagine if you were MC and your team wanted to fly you once a month out the NASL. Even 2k per player wouldn't be enough, and that doesn't even include expenses like lodging and food. The only reasonable thing to do would be to pull out. I'm not saying that they should've, but NASL and the teams should've considered this already. Aren't the managers supposed to the number crunching first? That's why FXO has a wonderful model - think of it as a business subsidiary: FXOKorea and FXO. Look all the financial excuses are BS. Plane tickets are 1500 return at the most. With this prizing they will be making a profit even if they lose in the first round. The concern might be upfront cash. Well I think Koreans need to learn what a loan is, when you have guaranteed income to repay the loan in the future theres no risk of excessive ongoing interest payments from a loan. Its collective bargaining from sc2con to try and get more than they deserve. You see this kind of thing all the time with unions and in the end everyone loses. How is it getting more than they deserve when their biggest league is shipping foreigners to play in their tournaments for free, as well as housing them, giving them equal opportunity in the tournaments, and rescheduling their groups just so the foreigners can participate in an extra couple of tournies? As for money being BS...$1500 for plane ticket alone, not counting room, board, further traveling costs once on the ground, that adds up for poorer teams. I think you need to read the thread, it has been stated multiple times that 1650 is realistically how much the trip costs. They are making the a guaranteed profit of 350 just for attending. Asking for more is more than they deserve, and NASL rightfully refused them. I don't think this is the players decision, it is sc2cons decision. I'm sure the players would love to be paid 350 to go on a trip to america to play starcraft. And your comparison with the GSL is foolish. 1.) the GSL is month long, a much bigger investment than the 3day NASL. 2.) The koreans have a far greater chance of earning a significant amount of prizemoney than foreigners in the GSL. if you want to really compare gsl to nasl, you're going to have to be a player who has attended both, or someone with good knowledge of all the costs involved. on top of nasl being around 2-3months of games if i recall correctly? preceding the finals held in america At least at GSL, everyone is on equal footing? You don't have specific groups of players having to get up at 4am for matches with twice the latency...That in and of itself is a bit problematic no?
No, just a majority of their viewers[/QUOTE]
Don't get what you're implying.
On August 12 2011 13:12 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 13:09 tripper688 wrote:On August 12 2011 13:05 reptile wrote:On August 12 2011 10:39 Goibon wrote:
If everything in the post is truthful and not deceptive, then i'm not impressed with the Korean teams on this one.
Of course i don't think many of them really cared about NASL anyway, given the lag and time of day. It sounded from the few comments i've heard from coaches and players that participating was a pain in the arse. So my assumption is that they've all got together and tried to throw their weight around to get more out of the deal.
I'm kinda disappointed in NASL for bending over, but at the same time respect their eagerness. I'm actually glad they didn't accept the revised offers in the end, because i'd hate to see such unprofessional, whiny dealings to have actually had an effect.
As for hurting quality of NASL, In the end i never took the Korean matches seriously because of the lag factor, so for me this wont actually end up hurting the weekly league one bit. Finals, sure but I pray NASL aren't doing a finals qualifier thing again like last time. I hated that so fucking much. If you don't participate in the season you shouldn't be able to get into the finals.
If this is going to be the 'foreigner only' tournament, then i'm kinda glad there's one. The Koreans themselves might have given Catz his wish.
All in all i'm fine this, and disappointed in the Koreans attitude.
GL HF NASL Season 2! I think everything you said was spot on. Couldn't be more accurate. The whole open bracket final qualifier seemed to totally eliminate all of the hard work the other players put in throughout the season. I would like to see Korean competition in the NASL, but I too, am glad that the NASL didn't continue to try and pamper the Koreans with a more generous offer. Their attitudes and actions thus far have been disrespectful and hurtful to esports overall. I really hope all foreigners take this as a slap in the face and practice with a vengeance to destroy Korean players at the upcoming MLG event. Please don't take any of this as a matter of race. I'm simply hoping that foreigners are able to defeat the Koreans do to the general standard that the Koreans are held as higher skilled players. Now that there is one less tournament with Korean competition, I want foreign competitors to win more than ever. Did you see how far the Koreans bent back to accommodate the MLG foreigners? Did you see what the foreigners did with their code A spots? Yea there might be a better chance for foreigners to win NASL this season but it's gonna be tainted with the knowledge that most of the best players were not able to participate. They played ONE DAY AFTER THEIR ARRIVAL IN KOREAN WHILE THEY WERE STILL JET LAGGED. DON'T YOU DARE try to marginalize the efforts of Nani, Thorzain, Jinro, and Sase.
I'm not marginalizing anything. They played a day after their arrival because instead of going to Korea early, they decided to partake in other tournaments. GOM has no say in that. They even went out of their way to push their group 1 day back so they would make it on time rather than make them forfeit which would have been within their rights to do. Stop getting all defensive and actually read what people write.
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On August 12 2011 13:07 magnaflow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 13:05 tripper688 wrote:On August 12 2011 13:03 nanaoei wrote:On August 12 2011 12:55 Disquiet wrote:On August 12 2011 12:48 tripper688 wrote:On August 12 2011 12:44 Disquiet wrote:On August 12 2011 12:36 ke_ivan wrote:
Yeah Korea is far away from pretty much everywhere and the cost to fly is expensive. So I'm not surprised they pulled out - they probably don't have the upfront cash. They did do this late though, so bad planning there. Even if they went on a young person's ticket, that would cost US$1250. A weak US Dollar obviously helps, but imagine if you were MC and your team wanted to fly you once a month out the NASL. Even 2k per player wouldn't be enough, and that doesn't even include expenses like lodging and food. The only reasonable thing to do would be to pull out. I'm not saying that they should've, but NASL and the teams should've considered this already. Aren't the managers supposed to the number crunching first? That's why FXO has a wonderful model - think of it as a business subsidiary: FXOKorea and FXO. Look all the financial excuses are BS. Plane tickets are 1500 return at the most. With this prizing they will be making a profit even if they lose in the first round. The concern might be upfront cash. Well I think Koreans need to learn what a loan is, when you have guaranteed income to repay the loan in the future theres no risk of excessive ongoing interest payments from a loan. Its collective bargaining from sc2con to try and get more than they deserve. You see this kind of thing all the time with unions and in the end everyone loses. How is it getting more than they deserve when their biggest league is shipping foreigners to play in their tournaments for free, as well as housing them, giving them equal opportunity in the tournaments, and rescheduling their groups just so the foreigners can participate in an extra couple of tournies? As for money being BS...$1500 for plane ticket alone, not counting room, board, further traveling costs once on the ground, that adds up for poorer teams. I think you need to read the thread, it has been stated multiple times that 1650 is realistically how much the trip costs. They are making the a guaranteed profit of 350 just for attending. Asking for more is more than they deserve, and NASL rightfully refused them. I don't think this is the players decision, it is sc2cons decision. I'm sure the players would love to be paid 350 to go on a trip to america to play starcraft. And your comparison with the GSL is foolish. 1.) the GSL is month long, a much bigger investment than the 3day NASL. 2.) The koreans have a far greater chance of earning a significant amount of prizemoney than foreigners in the GSL. if you want to really compare gsl to nasl, you're going to have to be a player who has attended both, or someone with good knowledge of all the costs involved. on top of nasl being around 2-3months of games if i recall correctly? preceding the finals held in america At least at GSL, everyone is on equal footing? You don't have specific groups of players having to get up at 4am for matches with twice the latency...That in and of itself is a bit problematic no? No, just a majority of their viewers
i don't get it,,, you're kind of suggesting that the players at GSL should be accommodating of the overseas viewer's timezone? it's obviously your choice to take time off to watch live and for free, when there's equally a choice available for buying a pass for VODs
they're already playing starting at 9pm during groupstages, is this not prime-time for watching starcraft? lol....
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On August 12 2011 13:12 EchoZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 13:11 Redlol wrote:On August 12 2011 13:01 Blasphemi wrote:On August 12 2011 12:57 Redlol wrote:
Nazgul said earlier that he thinks it's reasonable for the Koreans to try to preserve their scene, and I think that's a good point. It's likely a defensive measure by the Koreans to prolong the true explosion of ESPORTS outside their country. People still consider Korea the place to be, and if the NASL is truly competitive that might not be the case anymore, especially with the recent exodus of Koreans to pro-teams.
Give it another year and Koreans will be begging to play in American and European tournaments, they can't preserve their scene forever. Never read something so ridiculous. Koreans have preserved their starcraft scene for ten years with zero foreign help. You literally didn't think about anything when you replied to this did you? "Koreans have preserved their starcraft scene for ten years with zero foreign help." That doesn't even remotely apply here, this statement doesn't make any sense. I'll clarify what I said based on what I think you meant though, BW in Korea is still bigger than SC2, of course the Koreans preserved the BW scene just fine. They will NOT preserve their SC2 scene, at least not in comparison to the foreign scene. The foreign scene WILL blow the Korean scene out of the water within one year. It's in the interests of the Koreans to prevent that from happening for as long as they can. But you got to see that the Korean players are a tier higher.
Absolutely, but fact is the scene outside of Korea is growing so fast that soon there won't be any reason for foreigners to go to Korea, that means soon the Koreans will have to begin attending foreign tournaments even over attending the GSL.
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On August 12 2011 08:10 nkwd wrote:
Sad news...is Sen still playing?
He's not on a Korean team, hes on fnatic. He should still play.
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On August 12 2011 12:02 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 11:40 mcc wrote:On August 12 2011 11:26 Talin wrote:On August 12 2011 11:17 mcc wrote:On August 12 2011 11:05 Talin wrote:On August 12 2011 10:50 esotericc wrote:On August 12 2011 10:47 Talin wrote:On August 12 2011 10:39 esotericc wrote:
As more time goes on I am getting more and more sick of the korean scenes overall attitude. Could just be a vocal minority but they sure do believe their proverbial crap don't stink.
Considering the foreign scene is much larger than korea in regards to SC2 I feel we owe them nothing at all and they should jump at a chance to give themselves a stronger foot hold in the foreign scene. Foreign scene isn't larger than Korean scene. Strength of a scene is measured by quality and skill of players because that is the only real long-term value. Everything else (tournaments, prize money etc) is just temporary, it's basically an inflated bubble. This very thread proves that best. Korean scene in SC2 did a LOT for the foreign scene. They're basically offering free entry in the highest level professional competition in the world, something that western Brood War progamers (who couldn't even manage to earn a progaming LICENCE, let alone qualify for anything significant) would have killed for back in the day. We owe them quite a bit actually. I understand your point of view and appreciate where you are coming from but in my opinion strength of scene comes with the money being invested into the players and events. You can have as many amazing players in korea that you want but if they only have 1 big competition, no upcoming events other than that one and they refuse to be part of the rest of the worlds events then their scene won't grow. Just because we enjoy watching them doesn't mean they are going to be picking up sponsors outside of korea if they refuse to leave. Then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.  From everything I've seen by following Korean BW and keeping an eye on some e-sport attempts in the west, I have to say that right now I'm nearly convinced that you can't build e-sports with money. Money, show and sponsorships can come into it when you already have an intense level of competition, passion and following and when you have players demonstrating skill that the audience can really appreciate. Speaking of sponsors, while I can agree with your statement, have you also considered that without interest and without a sufficiently high level of competition, western sponsors may soon no longer be interested in western tournaments either? Foreign scene does not justify $20k+ prize pool tournaments in the long run. On the other hand, whether SC2 grows in Korea is mostly up to Korea. They're pretty much an e-sport country (as much as a country can be), so if the game is pushed through the right channels there's plenty of sponsorship money to go around within Korea. It's not the lack of western sponsors that slowed down the growth of SC2 in Korea, it was mostly the internal factors (and Blizzard). Nope. Prize pools are determined by viewership or rather specifically by sponsors calculating if sponsorship will pay itself. So it is purely determined by size and demographics of viewership. The "Foreign scene does not justify $20k+ prize pool tournaments in the long run." is therefore quite strange statement. In what way does it not justify the prize pool ? That's one part of it - it won't attract the viewers. Take a look at IPL stream to the right, it's 12k viewers for probably the most exciting set of matches so far this season (featuring Ret, Thorzain, Idra and WhiteRa) Second and bigger part of the point is that you can organize a $15k tournament and a $100k tournament, and both tournaments will attract the same quality of players (basically most top foreign players out of Korea) and the same number of viewers. So why would you waste $85k that you don't need to? Sure you could argue that it's about sustaining the e-sport in the long run, but western sponsors aren't here for the long run. They don't actually own Starcraft teams, TV stations and the whole infrastructure like in Korea, they don't care if 5 years from now it dies out (they'll just find something else that's popular to sponsor). Yes, you can organize two tournaments one with 15k and one with 100k, but there are other competing tournaments and as it already happens in foreign scene better players already have to choose between them, do you think they will choose your 15k tournament if competition offers 50k one ? No , you will get lesser players. As for if it sustainable, who knows. As long as the tournaments do not overlap (and the schedule will never be that tight), players will just go to both. In which case the ones who offer $50k will feel silly. Even now, MLG events seem to be most popular for both the players and viewers even though they have the smallest prize pool of all western live events.
But the tournaments overlap and travelling is not without impact on the players ability to play.
MLG has rather big prize for national championships and to have better chance to take it you need attend other MLGs. Anyway how are we going to measure popularity for players ?
On August 12 2011 12:02 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 11:40 mcc wrote:
Now I would love to see the evidence for the fact that skill is the main factor in long term, sizeable, sustainable scene. My guess would be the other way around as only long term scene can produce higher skill levels due to fierce competition over long period of time. The actual reason for sustainability probably would be popularity and I highly doubt fangirls of BW players in Korea actually care about absolute value of skill. Relative skill compared to direct competition is what matters. Brood War teams were still scraping for money before the big corporations really took over, while at the same time they had fully running team houses and put in the insane amount of time into the game. As an example of skill at the time, 4U with Boxer in his prime was struggling financially (and had players paying for expenses out of their own pockets) before SK Telecom moved in in 2004. The scene was very much thriving with talent and following before it became a real corporate sport it is today. There's absolutely a notion of absolute skill, and most fans of BW in Korea can recognize feats that are incredibly difficult for a "normal" person to do, and thus give it the appreciation it deserves (Boxer's early drop micro, the famous Jangbi's storms, Bisu's multitasking etc). Why would you admire people playing video games otherwise? There has to be a stunning display of skill to actually gain the initial mass following and start things off. Boxer didn't become what he is just because he was winning a lot and beat his competition, but because he was showing something that would literally blow your mind even if you only knew the most basic things about rts genre.
I wrote a long reply, but lost it so short version.
What you wrote does not address really my argument, there is nothing that shows there is causal relationship between skill and sustainable scene, just that there were skilled players in Korea after fierce competition over longer period of time. You also point out that you can have scene without money, which is not contrary to anything I said.
I also did not claim that there is no absolute measure of skill, just that relative skill is what matters. And difference in skill between amateur and pro is what matters. I can be in awe if the player does things I cannot do and later if the player does things that few people do, no absolute skill level necessary for that.
As for fans, there are different ones. Some just appreciate popularity/looks/likability, and then there is continuous scale of fans with appreciation of the game on different levels. Just to point out people admire singers that cannot actually sing, ....
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On August 12 2011 13:13 whateverpeeps wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 13:11 Kavas wrote:On August 12 2011 12:55 goswser wrote:
Wow why would they not come with an offer of a 2000 dollar stipend....thats just stupid, their winnings would more than cover their expenses..... That's because it's not a 2000 dollar stipend. It's 1000 stipend and 1000 from the player's own prize money. Where'd you get that from? From what I understood, that was the offer for Season 1, but for Season 2, they are giving all Koreans 1000, and then an additional 1000 for traveling. Which I guess means that if they qualify for finals, they get 2000 (which makes sense, because they wouldnt need to travel if they dont make finals).
Read the OP again. If they make it to the Grand Finals, NASL wanted to only give them $1000 as a traveling stipend, and then offered to rearrange their prize winnings for the Top 16 so that all the Top 16 players got at least $1000, and was asking the Koreans to pay the rest of their travel expenses from that Guaranteed $1000 that the Stipend doesn't cover.
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On August 12 2011 12:46 Slider954 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:38 Brian333 wrote:On August 12 2011 12:13 Saraf wrote:On August 12 2011 12:10 Brian333 wrote:
I don't know how there are people that still don't get it.
NASL offers $1000 travel stipend and a $1000 minimum prize for top 16. The plane ticket and hotel costs alone are $2000+ meaning that they have to pay for some travel expenses themselves.
Koreans don't see it as a viable deal because they don't view months of pool play consisting of awkwardly scheduled games as a worthy investment of their time when you can actually lose your own money after fighting to a top 16 out of a sizable player pool and using another week of your time to travel abroad.
NASL refuses to / can't offer a larger travel stipend.
Compromise is not reached and Koreans withdraw. That is factually inaccurate. Plane ticket and hotel+local transportation for S1 were $1650 per player (posted by the NASL.tv account), and I feel like the OP ought to be edited to note that $2000 in guaranteed money covers all costs associated with going. Apparently, you missed my earlier post. You know why the OP should not do that? Because it's deceptively disingenuous and biased to try and tack that price onto the trip. The cost of plane tickets swings wildly depending on when you book it and how long in advance you book it. If I were to try and jump on a plane on Monday from Incheon International Airport to LAX, it would cost me nearly $3500 before taxes for a non-refundable multiple stop round-trip economy class ticket. Go check for yourself on the United Airlines website. Realistically speaking, booking about a month in advance during off-season will drop that price to $1200 before taxes. Still more than their travel stipend. And, that's assuming that the player can even book his flight a month in advance as if there is some guarantee that he will still be going a month later (there is none). Refundable tickets are significantly more expensive and I do not know the policies on canceling reservations beyond the 24-hour cut off but I have a suspicion it's not cheap. Booking a week in advance brings it up to $1600 before taxes. Brian, don't know if you saw this post earlier from the NASL poster , going to assume you missed it: I can answer this question. We paid for Korean players to come to NASL Season 1. We bought tickets for MC, PuMa, Zenio, and Squirtle. We paid $1,192 for each ticket. The hotel cost was $353 for the entire event. Travel cost was about $80 per person (shuttle service to and from). This averages out about $1650, factoring in meals ($50 per day even) ... giving each player $2,000 should cover that.The 2k they offered was more than enough then and I don't see why it would be any different for season 2.
I don´t get it then, if the whole paying for travelling expenses and hotel and food was less money than the 2k offered then why didn´t the NASL offered to pay their travel? Did I understand this post wrong?
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On August 12 2011 12:48 tripper688 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:44 Disquiet wrote:On August 12 2011 12:36 ke_ivan wrote:
Yeah Korea is far away from pretty much everywhere and the cost to fly is expensive. So I'm not surprised they pulled out - they probably don't have the upfront cash. They did do this late though, so bad planning there. Even if they went on a young person's ticket, that would cost US$1250. A weak US Dollar obviously helps, but imagine if you were MC and your team wanted to fly you once a month out the NASL. Even 2k per player wouldn't be enough, and that doesn't even include expenses like lodging and food. The only reasonable thing to do would be to pull out. I'm not saying that they should've, but NASL and the teams should've considered this already. Aren't the managers supposed to the number crunching first? That's why FXO has a wonderful model - think of it as a business subsidiary: FXOKorea and FXO. Look all the financial excuses are BS. Plane tickets are 1500 return at the most. With this prizing they will be making a profit even if they lose in the first round. The concern might be upfront cash. Well I think Koreans need to learn what a loan is, when you have guaranteed income to repay the loan in the future theres no risk of excessive ongoing interest payments from a loan. Its collective bargaining from sc2con to try and get more than they deserve. You see this kind of thing all the time with unions and in the end everyone loses. How is it getting more than they deserve when their biggest league is shipping foreigners to play in their tournaments for free, as well as housing them, giving them equal opportunity in the tournaments, and rescheduling their groups just so the foreigners can participate in an extra couple of tournies? As for money being BS...$1500 for plane ticket alone, not counting room, board, further traveling costs once on the ground, that adds up for poorer teams.
GOM is doing that as part of a mutually beneficial partnership with MLG. It's not like they're just paying all this out because they're feeling generous. It has nothing to do with NASL.
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While this is an unfortunate event I hope that this does not kill the NASL. I mean after all, this is the NASL ( NORTH AMERICAN Star League ) Why should it be required that koreans participate in a north american event. NASL will still be great.
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On August 12 2011 13:10 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 13:08 Brian333 wrote:On August 12 2011 13:00 Redlol wrote:On August 12 2011 12:58 Brian333 wrote:
Jesus, how many people can't read? In the opening post, it is NOT a $2000 travel stipend. It is a COMBINED $2000 from $1000 top 16 guaranteed winnings and $1000 travel stipend. So? What do you want to bed that the players would fucking love to come to Korea to play for a probable 300$ guaranteed payout. The teams are just trying to protect StarCraft in Korea. In time they will beg to play in our tournaments as they realize they can't hide forever. I think it's pretty obvious that any top players won't want to be paid only $300 guaranteed cash for months of pool play at awkward times and a trip overseas. Slayers is not bound by any obligations to the SC2 committee and they deemed it an unworthy investment of their time. Just look at BoxeR. Months of poorly organized pool play where there were times he would be up until the early morning waiting for his competition to show up due to time zone differences. Plays one set of games as is eliminated after traveling to the US. Just made $300 in 2+ months of dedicated, high level play. Conclusion? withdraw from NASL s2. This is probably the most accurate portrayal of how the Koreans feel. It's not unreasonable to think that $300 for months of pool play at awkward times and a trip overseas is not worth your time.
And yet they knew all this before they had their players qualify. If they felt it was unreasonable, they should have said, 'wait a sec, before we have our guys qualify there's some things we want to discuss money wise and until they are settled we really shouldn't have our players qualify in case we ultimately can't come to a agreement.'
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wow so sad
guess i won't be buying a pass for season 2
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On August 12 2011 13:12 epidGoaty wrote:so EG is killing esports?
No. It's the repercussions of a single incident.
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EPT
