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Given the unfortunate circumstances, I can respect the NASL for sticking to their guns. I hope you guys have great games to make up for it!
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On August 12 2011 13:12 EchoZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 13:11 Redlol wrote:On August 12 2011 13:01 Blasphemi wrote:On August 12 2011 12:57 Redlol wrote:
Nazgul said earlier that he thinks it's reasonable for the Koreans to try to preserve their scene, and I think that's a good point. It's likely a defensive measure by the Koreans to prolong the true explosion of ESPORTS outside their country. People still consider Korea the place to be, and if the NASL is truly competitive that might not be the case anymore, especially with the recent exodus of Koreans to pro-teams.
Give it another year and Koreans will be begging to play in American and European tournaments, they can't preserve their scene forever. Never read something so ridiculous. Koreans have preserved their starcraft scene for ten years with zero foreign help. You literally didn't think about anything when you replied to this did you? "Koreans have preserved their starcraft scene for ten years with zero foreign help." That doesn't even remotely apply here, this statement doesn't make any sense. I'll clarify what I said based on what I think you meant though, BW in Korea is still bigger than SC2, of course the Koreans preserved the BW scene just fine. They will NOT preserve their SC2 scene, at least not in comparison to the foreign scene. The foreign scene WILL blow the Korean scene out of the water within one year. It's in the interests of the Koreans to prevent that from happening for as long as they can. But you got to see that the Korean players are a tier higher.
This. You'll simply see more repeats of MLG and DreamHack if the foreign scene blows the Korean one out of the water. Unless they completely ban Korean players which would make it look rather silly.
On August 12 2011 13:13 whateverpeeps wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 13:11 Kavas wrote:On August 12 2011 12:55 goswser wrote:
Wow why would they not come with an offer of a 2000 dollar stipend....thats just stupid, their winnings would more than cover their expenses..... That's because it's not a 2000 dollar stipend. It's 1000 stipend and 1000 from the player's own prize money. Where'd you get that from? From what I understood, that was the offer for Season 1, but for Season 2, they are giving all Koreans 1000, and then an additional 1000 for traveling. Which I guess means that if they qualify for finals, they get 2000 (which makes sense, because they wouldnt need to travel if they dont make finals).
The $1000 is the minimum prize for making it to that stage in play. So yes, it is part of their "winnings."
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On August 12 2011 13:15 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 13:13 whateverpeeps wrote:On August 12 2011 13:11 Kavas wrote:On August 12 2011 12:55 goswser wrote:
Wow why would they not come with an offer of a 2000 dollar stipend....thats just stupid, their winnings would more than cover their expenses..... That's because it's not a 2000 dollar stipend. It's 1000 stipend and 1000 from the player's own prize money. Where'd you get that from? From what I understood, that was the offer for Season 1, but for Season 2, they are giving all Koreans 1000, and then an additional 1000 for traveling. Which I guess means that if they qualify for finals, they get 2000 (which makes sense, because they wouldnt need to travel if they dont make finals). Read the OP again. If they make it to the Grand Finals, NASL wanted to only give them $1000 as a traveling stipend, and then offered to rearrange their prize winnings for the Top 16 so that all the Top 16 players got at least $1000, and was asking the Koreans to pay the rest of their travel expenses from that Guaranteed $1000 that the Stipend doesn't cover.
I read it again and I still think you're confused about their Season 1 offer vs their final offer for Season 2.
"In an effort to try to ease the difficulty of travel, we managed to double our travel budget to $1,000...We presented a final offer, one which redistributed our prize pool to guarantee each player $2,000 (a $1,000 minimum prize in addition to the $1,000 travel stipend). "
It's pretty clear to me that they are giving 1000 to each player who makes the finals, and on top of that, 1000 for traveling, a doubling of the original proposal of 500.
It also explicitally states that the players are GUARANTEED 2000, which confirms my interpretation.
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On August 12 2011 13:11 Redlol wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 13:01 Blasphemi wrote:On August 12 2011 12:57 Redlol wrote:
Nazgul said earlier that he thinks it's reasonable for the Koreans to try to preserve their scene, and I think that's a good point. It's likely a defensive measure by the Koreans to prolong the true explosion of ESPORTS outside their country. People still consider Korea the place to be, and if the NASL is truly competitive that might not be the case anymore, especially with the recent exodus of Koreans to pro-teams.
Give it another year and Koreans will be begging to play in American and European tournaments, they can't preserve their scene forever. Never read something so ridiculous. Koreans have preserved their starcraft scene for ten years with zero foreign help. You literally didn't think about anything when you replied to this did you? "Koreans have preserved their starcraft scene for ten years with zero foreign help." That doesn't even remotely apply here, this statement doesn't make any sense. I'll clarify what I said based on what I think you meant though, BW in Korea is still bigger than SC2, of course the Koreans preserved the BW scene just fine. They will NOT preserve their SC2 scene, at least not in comparison to the foreign scene. The foreign scene WILL blow the Korean scene out of the water within one year. It's in the interests of the Koreans to prevent that from happening for as long as they can.
What foreign scene is there? Where is the sustainable infrastructure that mirror the Korean BW scene? Where is the major TV deals?
You can look at MLG, but I can point many CS: Source events bigger than MLG in years past but CSS still failed after a few years in the spotlight. Every game in the U.S. has gone through a boom and bust with none having the staying power that BW has had in Korea. Please be less ignorant.
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At the end of the day, I really think this is another example of Westerners misunderstanding Asian culture.
Increasing the prize pool to cover part of travel expenses of a player is acceptable among Westerners and their do-things-on-our-own mentaility, but less accepted among Asians.
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On August 12 2011 13:16 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:46 Slider954 wrote:On August 12 2011 12:38 Brian333 wrote:On August 12 2011 12:13 Saraf wrote:On August 12 2011 12:10 Brian333 wrote:
I don't know how there are people that still don't get it.
NASL offers $1000 travel stipend and a $1000 minimum prize for top 16. The plane ticket and hotel costs alone are $2000+ meaning that they have to pay for some travel expenses themselves.
Koreans don't see it as a viable deal because they don't view months of pool play consisting of awkwardly scheduled games as a worthy investment of their time when you can actually lose your own money after fighting to a top 16 out of a sizable player pool and using another week of your time to travel abroad.
NASL refuses to / can't offer a larger travel stipend.
Compromise is not reached and Koreans withdraw. That is factually inaccurate. Plane ticket and hotel+local transportation for S1 were $1650 per player (posted by the NASL.tv account), and I feel like the OP ought to be edited to note that $2000 in guaranteed money covers all costs associated with going. Apparently, you missed my earlier post. You know why the OP should not do that? Because it's deceptively disingenuous and biased to try and tack that price onto the trip. The cost of plane tickets swings wildly depending on when you book it and how long in advance you book it. If I were to try and jump on a plane on Monday from Incheon International Airport to LAX, it would cost me nearly $3500 before taxes for a non-refundable multiple stop round-trip economy class ticket. Go check for yourself on the United Airlines website. Realistically speaking, booking about a month in advance during off-season will drop that price to $1200 before taxes. Still more than their travel stipend. And, that's assuming that the player can even book his flight a month in advance as if there is some guarantee that he will still be going a month later (there is none). Refundable tickets are significantly more expensive and I do not know the policies on canceling reservations beyond the 24-hour cut off but I have a suspicion it's not cheap. Booking a week in advance brings it up to $1600 before taxes. Brian, don't know if you saw this post earlier from the NASL poster , going to assume you missed it: I can answer this question. We paid for Korean players to come to NASL Season 1. We bought tickets for MC, PuMa, Zenio, and Squirtle. We paid $1,192 for each ticket. The hotel cost was $353 for the entire event. Travel cost was about $80 per person (shuttle service to and from). This averages out about $1650, factoring in meals ($50 per day even) ... giving each player $2,000 should cover that.The 2k they offered was more than enough then and I don't see why it would be any different for season 2. I don´t get it then, if the whole paying for travelling expenses and hotel and food was less money than the 2k offered then why didn´t the NASL offered to pay their travel? Did I understand this post wrong?
It's not $2000, it's $1000. It's $1000 travel stipend. NASL is offering to them that they'll change their prize structure around so that $1000 prize is guaranteed for making it into the top 16 and asking the Koreans to pay out the rest of their expenses out of that guaranteed $1000. It's definitely NASL that's trying to pay less than they did last time.
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On August 12 2011 13:20 dookudooku wrote:
At the end of the day, I really think this is another example of Westerners misunderstanding Asian culture.
Increasing the prize pool to cover part of travel expenses of a player is acceptable among Westerners and their do-things-on-our-own mentaility, but less accepted among Asians.
Elaboration required.
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Waiting for this to unravel a bit but what a disappointment from the Korean teams at first glance.
Acting as though playing one series a week for a two months is a HUGE commitment by the Koreans is a bit of an exaggeration. Sure it can come at weird hours (~13-15 hour difference to NA and ~7 to EU -> most matches should be worked out with good communication; I really doubt any Koreans would be waking up at 4AM their time to accomodate for NA players primetime) but at least it's conveniently online. I still think the $2,000 guaranteed is pretty decent. It's not like too many of those players are hitting the Top 8 of Code A/S anyways so they should have some time to prepare for that one series and ultimately the finals. In all honesty, it really just comes down to a 3/4 day commitment if they make the LAN.
The worst part is the situation that NASL is left in now. They got totally boned so I really don't see myself siding with the Koreans at this point even if they are in the right about travel costs.
Also, if they're really hurting for sponsorships so much, missing a big event like this and acting the way they have will definitely not help their cause.
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NASL,
You have just been PwnT by the MLG+GSL alliance!
Mr.Chae and Sundance is larfing atm...
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On August 12 2011 13:19 denzelz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 13:11 Redlol wrote:On August 12 2011 13:01 Blasphemi wrote:On August 12 2011 12:57 Redlol wrote:
Nazgul said earlier that he thinks it's reasonable for the Koreans to try to preserve their scene, and I think that's a good point. It's likely a defensive measure by the Koreans to prolong the true explosion of ESPORTS outside their country. People still consider Korea the place to be, and if the NASL is truly competitive that might not be the case anymore, especially with the recent exodus of Koreans to pro-teams.
Give it another year and Koreans will be begging to play in American and European tournaments, they can't preserve their scene forever. Never read something so ridiculous. Koreans have preserved their starcraft scene for ten years with zero foreign help. You literally didn't think about anything when you replied to this did you? "Koreans have preserved their starcraft scene for ten years with zero foreign help." That doesn't even remotely apply here, this statement doesn't make any sense. I'll clarify what I said based on what I think you meant though, BW in Korea is still bigger than SC2, of course the Koreans preserved the BW scene just fine. They will NOT preserve their SC2 scene, at least not in comparison to the foreign scene. The foreign scene WILL blow the Korean scene out of the water within one year. It's in the interests of the Koreans to prevent that from happening for as long as they can. You can look at MLG, but I can point many CS: Source events bigger than MLG in years past but CSS still failed after a few years in the spotlight. Every game in the U.S. has gone through a boom and bust with none having the staying power that BW has had in Korea. Please be less ignorant.
What about Halo? MLG founded itself on Halo:CE(I played and placed top 8 4v4 at a few of the earliest MLG's and AGP's), and MLG has done nothing but grow for years as a result. They provided a lot of the infrastructure for the boom of SC2 in the US as well, and they aren't going anywhere either.
Edit: Further, it's ignorant to think that the entirety of the BW infrastructure will make the switch to SC2 and that's what your entire argument is based on.
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On August 12 2011 13:16 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:46 Slider954 wrote:On August 12 2011 12:38 Brian333 wrote:On August 12 2011 12:13 Saraf wrote:On August 12 2011 12:10 Brian333 wrote:
I don't know how there are people that still don't get it.
NASL offers $1000 travel stipend and a $1000 minimum prize for top 16. The plane ticket and hotel costs alone are $2000+ meaning that they have to pay for some travel expenses themselves.
Koreans don't see it as a viable deal because they don't view months of pool play consisting of awkwardly scheduled games as a worthy investment of their time when you can actually lose your own money after fighting to a top 16 out of a sizable player pool and using another week of your time to travel abroad.
NASL refuses to / can't offer a larger travel stipend.
Compromise is not reached and Koreans withdraw. That is factually inaccurate. Plane ticket and hotel+local transportation for S1 were $1650 per player (posted by the NASL.tv account), and I feel like the OP ought to be edited to note that $2000 in guaranteed money covers all costs associated with going. Apparently, you missed my earlier post. You know why the OP should not do that? Because it's deceptively disingenuous and biased to try and tack that price onto the trip. The cost of plane tickets swings wildly depending on when you book it and how long in advance you book it. If I were to try and jump on a plane on Monday from Incheon International Airport to LAX, it would cost me nearly $3500 before taxes for a non-refundable multiple stop round-trip economy class ticket. Go check for yourself on the United Airlines website. Realistically speaking, booking about a month in advance during off-season will drop that price to $1200 before taxes. Still more than their travel stipend. And, that's assuming that the player can even book his flight a month in advance as if there is some guarantee that he will still be going a month later (there is none). Refundable tickets are significantly more expensive and I do not know the policies on canceling reservations beyond the 24-hour cut off but I have a suspicion it's not cheap. Booking a week in advance brings it up to $1600 before taxes. Brian, don't know if you saw this post earlier from the NASL poster , going to assume you missed it: I can answer this question. We paid for Korean players to come to NASL Season 1. We bought tickets for MC, PuMa, Zenio, and Squirtle. We paid $1,192 for each ticket. The hotel cost was $353 for the entire event. Travel cost was about $80 per person (shuttle service to and from). This averages out about $1650, factoring in meals ($50 per day even) ... giving each player $2,000 should cover that.The 2k they offered was more than enough then and I don't see why it would be any different for season 2. I don´t get it then, if the whole paying for travelling expenses and hotel and food was less money than the 2k offered then why didn´t the NASL offered to pay their travel? Did I understand this post wrong?
Because then they would also have to pay them prize money on top of that.
I think NASL was being more than generous increasing their traveling stipend specifically for the Koreans. It's a shame but the games should be interesting still.
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On August 12 2011 13:16 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:46 Slider954 wrote:On August 12 2011 12:38 Brian333 wrote:On August 12 2011 12:13 Saraf wrote:On August 12 2011 12:10 Brian333 wrote:
I don't know how there are people that still don't get it.
NASL offers $1000 travel stipend and a $1000 minimum prize for top 16. The plane ticket and hotel costs alone are $2000+ meaning that they have to pay for some travel expenses themselves.
Koreans don't see it as a viable deal because they don't view months of pool play consisting of awkwardly scheduled games as a worthy investment of their time when you can actually lose your own money after fighting to a top 16 out of a sizable player pool and using another week of your time to travel abroad.
NASL refuses to / can't offer a larger travel stipend.
Compromise is not reached and Koreans withdraw. That is factually inaccurate. Plane ticket and hotel+local transportation for S1 were $1650 per player (posted by the NASL.tv account), and I feel like the OP ought to be edited to note that $2000 in guaranteed money covers all costs associated with going. Apparently, you missed my earlier post. You know why the OP should not do that? Because it's deceptively disingenuous and biased to try and tack that price onto the trip. The cost of plane tickets swings wildly depending on when you book it and how long in advance you book it. If I were to try and jump on a plane on Monday from Incheon International Airport to LAX, it would cost me nearly $3500 before taxes for a non-refundable multiple stop round-trip economy class ticket. Go check for yourself on the United Airlines website. Realistically speaking, booking about a month in advance during off-season will drop that price to $1200 before taxes. Still more than their travel stipend. And, that's assuming that the player can even book his flight a month in advance as if there is some guarantee that he will still be going a month later (there is none). Refundable tickets are significantly more expensive and I do not know the policies on canceling reservations beyond the 24-hour cut off but I have a suspicion it's not cheap. Booking a week in advance brings it up to $1600 before taxes. Brian, don't know if you saw this post earlier from the NASL poster , going to assume you missed it: I can answer this question. We paid for Korean players to come to NASL Season 1. We bought tickets for MC, PuMa, Zenio, and Squirtle. We paid $1,192 for each ticket. The hotel cost was $353 for the entire event. Travel cost was about $80 per person (shuttle service to and from). This averages out about $1650, factoring in meals ($50 per day even) ... giving each player $2,000 should cover that.The 2k they offered was more than enough then and I don't see why it would be any different for season 2. I don´t get it then, if the whole paying for travelling expenses and hotel and food was less money than the 2k offered then why didn´t the NASL offered to pay their travel? Did I understand this post wrong?
My guess would be that NASL wants to accommodate the Koreans as best they can without reducing the prize pool; so, what they effectively did is use some magic hand-waving to "increase" the travel expense from $1000 to $1500 while leaving the prize pool "untouched"; they likely thought it would be okay because the Koreans agreed to it last season. I feel it's unreasonable to expect the Korean teams to just get a free pass to come overseas and win money we all know they're going to the moment they sign up.
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On August 12 2011 13:20 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 13:16 windsupernova wrote:On August 12 2011 12:46 Slider954 wrote:On August 12 2011 12:38 Brian333 wrote:On August 12 2011 12:13 Saraf wrote:On August 12 2011 12:10 Brian333 wrote:
I don't know how there are people that still don't get it.
NASL offers $1000 travel stipend and a $1000 minimum prize for top 16. The plane ticket and hotel costs alone are $2000+ meaning that they have to pay for some travel expenses themselves.
Koreans don't see it as a viable deal because they don't view months of pool play consisting of awkwardly scheduled games as a worthy investment of their time when you can actually lose your own money after fighting to a top 16 out of a sizable player pool and using another week of your time to travel abroad.
NASL refuses to / can't offer a larger travel stipend.
Compromise is not reached and Koreans withdraw. That is factually inaccurate. Plane ticket and hotel+local transportation for S1 were $1650 per player (posted by the NASL.tv account), and I feel like the OP ought to be edited to note that $2000 in guaranteed money covers all costs associated with going. Apparently, you missed my earlier post. You know why the OP should not do that? Because it's deceptively disingenuous and biased to try and tack that price onto the trip. The cost of plane tickets swings wildly depending on when you book it and how long in advance you book it. If I were to try and jump on a plane on Monday from Incheon International Airport to LAX, it would cost me nearly $3500 before taxes for a non-refundable multiple stop round-trip economy class ticket. Go check for yourself on the United Airlines website. Realistically speaking, booking about a month in advance during off-season will drop that price to $1200 before taxes. Still more than their travel stipend. And, that's assuming that the player can even book his flight a month in advance as if there is some guarantee that he will still be going a month later (there is none). Refundable tickets are significantly more expensive and I do not know the policies on canceling reservations beyond the 24-hour cut off but I have a suspicion it's not cheap. Booking a week in advance brings it up to $1600 before taxes. Brian, don't know if you saw this post earlier from the NASL poster , going to assume you missed it: I can answer this question. We paid for Korean players to come to NASL Season 1. We bought tickets for MC, PuMa, Zenio, and Squirtle. We paid $1,192 for each ticket. The hotel cost was $353 for the entire event. Travel cost was about $80 per person (shuttle service to and from). This averages out about $1650, factoring in meals ($50 per day even) ... giving each player $2,000 should cover that.The 2k they offered was more than enough then and I don't see why it would be any different for season 2. I don´t get it then, if the whole paying for travelling expenses and hotel and food was less money than the 2k offered then why didn´t the NASL offered to pay their travel? Did I understand this post wrong? It's not $2000, it's $1000. It's $1000 travel stipend. NASL is offering to them that they'll change their prize structure around so that $1000 prize is guaranteed for making it into the top 16 and asking the Koreans to pay out the rest of their expenses out of that guaranteed $1000. It's definitely NASL that's trying to pay less than they did last time.
Honestly, I don't think you understood. They made an offer of a thousand, which was rejected, so they made an offer of 2000.
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Wow they are greedy. I sort of see where they are coming from but in the end, greed trumps all
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On August 12 2011 13:11 Jisunsu wrote:
Wait... I'm a little confused (and a lot sleepy) to comprehend.
So the offer from NASL is $1K guaranteed money for the Top 16 players (which is basically everyone qualified for the live event) and $1K travel stipend. Thus, the least amount a live-event qualifying Korean player will get is a total of $2K... which is essentially break-even with the travel cost and accommodations.
Am I missing something? The way I see it is that a live-event qualifying Korean will have an opportunity to win the prize pool while not losing any money during the process.
Some people are taking the view that you net gain ~$300, since you pay any travel expenses over $1,000, which are in turn paid back by your automatic $1,000 winnings for ro16, where you keep the change. Between early morning games and KR<->NA lag, and a single elimination bo3, I guess some Koreans didn't find it an attractive enough offer.
You're still getting paid to travel abroad, with the possibility to win more, but there's also the fact that if you don't qualify for finals at all, you're net monetary gain is $0, after you get your deposit back. I realize NASL doesn't have infinite resources to spend. I think their best bet would be to make scheduling the regular season games more flexible, but not at the expense of their own employees. They shouldn't have to work 24/7 to accommodate everyone.
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On August 12 2011 13:21 Mazer wrote:
Waiting for this to unravel a bit but what a disappointment from the Korean teams at first glance.
Acting as though playing one series a week for a two months is a HUGE commitment by the Koreans is a bit of an exaggeration. Sure it can come at weird hours (~13-15 hour difference to NA and ~7 to EU -> most matches should be worked out with good communication; I really doubt any Koreans would be waking up at 4AM their time to accomodate for NA players primetime) but at least it's conveniently online. I still think the $2,000 guaranteed is pretty decent. It's not like too many of those players are hitting the Top 8 of Code A/S anyways so they should have some time to prepare for that one series and ultimately the finals. In all honesty, it really just comes down to a 3/4 day commitment if they make the LAN.
The worst part is the situation that NASL is left in now. They got totally boned so I really don't see myself siding with the Koreans at this point even if they are in the right about travel costs.
Also, if they're really hurting for sponsorships so much, missing a big event like this and acting the way they have will definitely not help their cause.
July woke up at 5am for a match that never happened. Artosis had to get up at 4am. Just saying, that's what was happening.
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Well, this sucks. But all bickering aside, this just shows the lack of money to go around on both NASLs side and the teams wanting to participate. Simply put, everyone needs more sponsors.
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On August 12 2011 13:19 whateverpeeps wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 13:15 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 13:13 whateverpeeps wrote:On August 12 2011 13:11 Kavas wrote:On August 12 2011 12:55 goswser wrote:
Wow why would they not come with an offer of a 2000 dollar stipend....thats just stupid, their winnings would more than cover their expenses..... That's because it's not a 2000 dollar stipend. It's 1000 stipend and 1000 from the player's own prize money. Where'd you get that from? From what I understood, that was the offer for Season 1, but for Season 2, they are giving all Koreans 1000, and then an additional 1000 for traveling. Which I guess means that if they qualify for finals, they get 2000 (which makes sense, because they wouldnt need to travel if they dont make finals). Read the OP again. If they make it to the Grand Finals, NASL wanted to only give them $1000 as a traveling stipend, and then offered to rearrange their prize winnings for the Top 16 so that all the Top 16 players got at least $1000, and was asking the Koreans to pay the rest of their travel expenses from that Guaranteed $1000 that the Stipend doesn't cover. I read it again and I still think you're confused about their Season 1 offer vs their final offer for Season 2. "In an effort to try to ease the difficulty of travel, we managed to double our travel budget to $1,000...We presented a final offer, one which redistributed our prize pool to guarantee each player $2,000 (a $1,000 minimum prize in addition to the $1,000 travel stipend). " It's pretty clear to me that they are giving 1000 to each player who makes the finals, and on top of that, 1000 for traveling, a doubling of the original proposal of 500. It also explicitally states that the players are GUARANTEED 2000, which confirms my interpretation.
You're pretty much saying the exact same thing as me. The only thing that NASL is paying upfront is the $1000 stipend. The other "1000" they claim is part of that 2000 is changing their prize structure around so that making it into the top 16 guarantees you win at least 1000, and they're asking the Koreans to pay the rest of that money out of that guaranteed 1000. So if the traveling expenses were 1650, then the only thing the Koreans would get for making it into the top 16 would be a $350 profit. Not enough in many player's minds for 3 months of playing at odd hours and traveling overseas.
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I haven't heard that Slayers will not participate yet. Are they bound through their local ties to not play too?
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On August 12 2011 13:22 motiust wrote:
NASL,
You have just been PwnT by the MLG+GSL alliance!
Mr.Chae and Sundance is larfing atm...
Stop with conspiracy theories for petes sake. People need to take off the tin foil hats. The NASL poster has already said a few times that Mr. Chae had NOTHING to do with the decision, he was just the go to guy between NASL and SC2co. He was actively trying to convince the Koreans to change their mind. And I'm pretty sure Sundance doesn't need to sabotage NASL.
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EPT
