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Korean teams withdraw from NASL - Page 20

Forum Index > SC2 General
3573 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 18 19 20 21 22 179 Next
TemplarCo.
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Mexico2870 Posts
August 11 2011 23:51 GMT
#381
Seriously... NASL gives them $ 2,000 for expense and still no?!, mmm... I'm guessing many season 2 HQ pass holders are mad.
With an average game length of 7m36s over his 6 games in GSL3, this is a no-brainer. BitByBit pulls more SCVs than yo momma at a club on Mar Sara. ♞
b0lt
Profile Joined March 2009
United States790 Posts
August 11 2011 23:51 GMT
#382
On August 12 2011 08:06 NASL.tv wrote:
In preparation for Season 2, it was made known to us by Mr.Chae of the GSL that the Korean teams threatened to withdraw from the NASL unless several demands were made: 1) pay for 100% of travel and accommodation cost for the Grand Finals and 2) remove the security deposit. The concerns of the Korean teams, as expressed to us by Mr.Chae were that it is difficult for Koreans to travel to the USA given their generally lower level of sponsorship, and secondly that they don’t think Koreans should have to pay to enter the event [despite the fact that we refund all security deposits, making the league free to play barring any penalties].

In an effort to try to ease the difficulty of travel, we managed to double our travel budget to $1,000 per player in addition to the minimum prize of $500. Unfortunately, we were notified August 9th (our 2nd day of filming) that this offer was unacceptable, and that Koreans were withdrawing from the league.

We presented a final offer, one which redistributed our prize pool to guarantee each player $2,000 (a $1,000 minimum prize in addition to the $1,000 travel stipend). We feel that, for a 1/16 chance at winning up to $40,000, $2,000 is more than fair accommodation expense to get players to come. Despite our best efforts, the Korean teams still have declined participation.

We are disappointed that the Korean Committee waited until the final hour, not only to make these demands but also to notify us of their withdrawal. We would like to apologize to our fans who wanted to see these players participate in the NASL and to the Korean players who hoped to participate. While we do respect the Committee’s decision, we wish it had been made in a more timely manner that did not interrupt the start of our season.


?
The Korean teams made demands and threatened to withdraw some time before season 2 and NASL did not satisfy the demands. How is that them waiting until the last hour to make demands and withdraw?
GetToDaChopa
Profile Joined September 2010
United States206 Posts
August 11 2011 23:51 GMT
#383
On August 12 2011 08:26 Waxangel wrote:
Why is Mr.Chae the SC2Con's mouthpiece here o_O?

I think GomTV has a seat there as an advisory role, but I thought sc2con would take care of something this big by themselves =o

I find it unsettling too that he's speaking for all of these teams. Can't they speak for themselves individually?
Saechiis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands4989 Posts
August 11 2011 23:52 GMT
#384
Shouldn't have used it as a recruitment camp for "free agents", ofcourse Korean teams are going to be uncomfortable sending their players.
I think esports is pretty nice.
Antyok
Profile Joined June 2011
Chile3 Posts
August 11 2011 23:52 GMT
#385
Who's gonna take the spots the Koreans left???
I hope they don't just coun't them as a non-show.
Kraznaya
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3711 Posts
August 11 2011 23:52 GMT
#386
On August 12 2011 08:50 NASL.tv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2011 08:47 masterbreti wrote:
On August 12 2011 08:43 NASL.tv wrote:
On August 12 2011 08:41 masterbreti wrote:
On August 12 2011 08:34 NASL.tv wrote:
On August 12 2011 08:31 masterbreti wrote:
tbh good for the Koreans for sticking to their guns.

Has anyone here auctally tried to caculate the cost of a 1 week trip to cali from seoul and back. its damn expensive. Being almost 3k with hotel and airfare and such. For the chance at $500, which would still lose them $500 if NASL paid 2k.

I can understand why the teams would do this tbh. They are not in a healthy state in Korea and of course they would want people to pay, since they can't temselves.


I can answer this question. We paid for Korean players to come to NASL Season 1. We bought tickets for MC, PuMa, Zenio, and Squirtle. We paid $1,192 for each ticket. The hotel cost was $353 for the entire event. Travel cost was about $80 per person (shuttle service to and from). This averages out about $1650, factoring in meals ($50 per day even) ... giving each player $2,000 should cover that.



Then why not just say to them "we're covering your entire costs," instead of putting a limit on it. Thats rather dumb.

you tell the Koreans that you'll cover 2k. they say to you they want you to cover it all. Well if 2k will cover it then tell them that you'll cover it all.

seems like really poor thinking on NASL's part.


What if they request business class, or first class? There has to be a limit, otherwise the demands will go unchecked.




So your saying the Koreans wanted champagne and caviar on the plane?

Why not just arrage it yourself. Tell the teams you will have everything ready and will book the flight etc for them.

I highly doubt they will demans business class or first class on the plane. Nor run up the hotel bill on kimchi.


We already set the precedent for this in Season 1. We bought tickets for MC, Zenio, PuMa, Squirtle with the deal that we'd subtract it from their prize money. We actually lost money on Zenio because he lost in the first round. We have already proven our determination in making sure Koreans make it to the event.


So what's the real issue then? Is it the security deposit? It doesn't seem like Sc2CON wants too much more than what you're offering with regard to travel costs.
do you have enough resolve, hero of justice?
Heraklitus
Profile Joined September 2010
United States553 Posts
August 11 2011 23:52 GMT
#387
On August 12 2011 08:50 fellcrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2011 08:48 OldManZerg wrote:
I think a lot of people are missing that they agreed to NASL's terms up front, and then asked for changes to them at the last minute.

Any discussion about how good those initial terms were seems beside the point to me. If they had signed a normal business contract, NASL would be well within their rights to sue the pants off these guys.

Could you imagine what would happen if the NFL players union got together and suddenly said "we're not playing unless you do X. We don't care what we already agreed to."

Can someone from NASL answer this? The contract part is what I wanna know. Enforce the damn contract. From a business perspective, I would try to make them hold their end of the bargain. It is only fair... and the law?


I doubt it was anything enforceable like this, it being across two countries makes it even more complicated, but I was just trying to illustrate the spirit of what they did.

Still. . . I would also be curious as to the nature of these contracts / agreements.
FliedLice
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany7494 Posts
August 11 2011 23:53 GMT
#388
On August 12 2011 08:51 b0lt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2011 08:06 NASL.tv wrote:
In preparation for Season 2, it was made known to us by Mr.Chae of the GSL that the Korean teams threatened to withdraw from the NASL unless several demands were made: 1) pay for 100% of travel and accommodation cost for the Grand Finals and 2) remove the security deposit. The concerns of the Korean teams, as expressed to us by Mr.Chae were that it is difficult for Koreans to travel to the USA given their generally lower level of sponsorship, and secondly that they don’t think Koreans should have to pay to enter the event [despite the fact that we refund all security deposits, making the league free to play barring any penalties].

In an effort to try to ease the difficulty of travel, we managed to double our travel budget to $1,000 per player in addition to the minimum prize of $500. Unfortunately, we were notified August 9th (our 2nd day of filming) that this offer was unacceptable, and that Koreans were withdrawing from the league.

We presented a final offer, one which redistributed our prize pool to guarantee each player $2,000 (a $1,000 minimum prize in addition to the $1,000 travel stipend). We feel that, for a 1/16 chance at winning up to $40,000, $2,000 is more than fair accommodation expense to get players to come. Despite our best efforts, the Korean teams still have declined participation.

We are disappointed that the Korean Committee waited until the final hour, not only to make these demands but also to notify us of their withdrawal. We would like to apologize to our fans who wanted to see these players participate in the NASL and to the Korean players who hoped to participate. While we do respect the Committee’s decision, we wish it had been made in a more timely manner that did not interrupt the start of our season.


?
The Korean teams made demands and threatened to withdraw some time before season 2 and NASL did not satisfy the demands. How is that them waiting until the last hour to make demands and withdraw?


I bolded another part for you.
Kevmeister @ Dota2
Galleon.frigate
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada721 Posts
August 11 2011 23:53 GMT
#389
On August 12 2011 08:34 NASL.tv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2011 08:31 masterbreti wrote:
tbh good for the Koreans for sticking to their guns.

Has anyone here auctally tried to caculate the cost of a 1 week trip to cali from seoul and back. its damn expensive. Being almost 3k with hotel and airfare and such. For the chance at $500, which would still lose them $500 if NASL paid 2k.

I can understand why the teams would do this tbh. They are not in a healthy state in Korea and of course they would want people to pay, since they can't temselves.


I can answer this question. We paid for Korean players to come to NASL Season 1. We bought tickets for MC, PuMa, Zenio, and Squirtle. We paid $1,192 for each ticket. The hotel cost was $353 for the entire event. Travel cost was about $80 per person (shuttle service to and from). This averages out about $1650, factoring in meals ($50 per day even) ... giving each player $2,000 should cover that.


Hold, if I read correctly...

the major points of contention were travel costs and deposit

NASL offered enough to reasonably cover travel

soo..... the SC2CON dropped out because of the deposit? or they just didn't agree this was enough for travel?
StUfF
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia1437 Posts
August 11 2011 23:53 GMT
#390
The $2000 isn't a full stipend.

It's $1000 dollar minimum prize money and a $1000 dollar stipend.

Assuming you bomb out in a single elimination bracket in the first round, they just put in 9+ worth of Bo3s at uncomfortable times and a trip to US pretty much nothing. Also player prizemoney does not go towards teams, so teams will still be paying out of pocket for travel/accomodation still.

I don't think it's unreasonable to increase to supply travel/accomodation for all players when they've provided games for NASL for the whole league portion of the system.
OnFiRe888
Profile Joined October 2010
United States629 Posts
August 11 2011 23:53 GMT
#391
wait a minute boxer is part of slayers and not apart of sc2con, what's gonna happen with him?
"Life isn't measured by the breaths you take, but by skill in Starcraft"
Ouga
Profile Joined March 2008
Finland645 Posts
August 11 2011 23:53 GMT
#392
Well, looking at NASL' side, it does seem koreans weren't reasonable. But I suppose they don't make decisions just to fck up with fans, but their expenses would actually be too high for their sponsors to tolerate.

I don't mind though, would be cool to see some foreigners have a chance in an foreign event for once
Alexl
Profile Joined January 2011
288 Posts
August 11 2011 23:54 GMT
#393
Am I the only one thinking the "reove the security deposit" part was because koreans decided they would screw teh viewers and pretty much stop playing their matchs when they wanted to? (when they were sure to qualify for example)
sertman
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States540 Posts
August 11 2011 23:54 GMT
#394
On August 12 2011 08:50 NASL.tv wrote:

We already set the precedent for this in Season 1. We bought tickets for MC, Zenio, PuMa, Squirtle with the deal that we'd subtract it from their prize money. We actually lost money on Zenio because he lost in the first round. We have already proven our determination in making sure Koreans make it to the event.


Just a thought here, but perhaps they felt that the quality of your event wasn't high enough to justify flying their players over. Which explains why they partner with MLG, because they actually give a shit about something other than stroking their own egos.
Soft`Soap
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada865 Posts
August 11 2011 23:54 GMT
#395
NASL please answer this
You said that it would cost players under 2000 dollars to fly there
why not book the flight and accommodations yourselves?
and then remove the deposit
i really don't know your numbers
but wouldn't that be a better decision as i'm sure you guys will lose a lot of viewers?
MiXyass DjLadyDana SoftSoap RightClick DigicidaL l)H[Zodiak] 58^^
Kraznaya
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3711 Posts
August 11 2011 23:54 GMT
#396
On August 12 2011 08:53 OnFiRe888 wrote:
wait a minute boxer is part of slayers and not apart of sc2con, what's gonna happen with him?


He already dropped out for his own personal reasons.

For people asking about Nada and SK gaming, he already dropped out prior to this so there's no chance he'll be competing either.
do you have enough resolve, hero of justice?
fellcrow
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States288 Posts
August 11 2011 23:54 GMT
#397
On August 12 2011 08:52 OldManZerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2011 08:50 fellcrow wrote:
On August 12 2011 08:48 OldManZerg wrote:
I think a lot of people are missing that they agreed to NASL's terms up front, and then asked for changes to them at the last minute.

Any discussion about how good those initial terms were seems beside the point to me. If they had signed a normal business contract, NASL would be well within their rights to sue the pants off these guys.

Could you imagine what would happen if the NFL players union got together and suddenly said "we're not playing unless you do X. We don't care what we already agreed to."

Can someone from NASL answer this? The contract part is what I wanna know. Enforce the damn contract. From a business perspective, I would try to make them hold their end of the bargain. It is only fair... and the law?


I doubt it was anything enforceable like this, it being across two countries makes it even more complicated, but I was just trying to illustrate the spirit of what they did.

Still. . . I would also be curious as to the nature of these contracts / agreements.

Why in the FUCK are you signing a contract in the first place if it isn't enforceable. That negates the entire point of a contract... If it is actually a contract, SUE THEM!
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
baoluvboa
Profile Joined December 2010
743 Posts
August 11 2011 23:54 GMT
#398
On August 12 2011 08:54 Alexl wrote:
Am I the only one thinking the "reove the security deposit" part was because koreans decided they would screw teh viewers and pretty much stop playing their matchs when they wanted to? (when they were sure to qualify for example)


Like many of the non korean players did?
FliedLice
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany7494 Posts
August 11 2011 23:54 GMT
#399
On August 12 2011 08:53 OnFiRe888 wrote:
wait a minute boxer is part of slayers and not apart of sc2con, what's gonna happen with him?


he's out too, was confirmed somewhere in this thread
Kevmeister @ Dota2
Kraznaya
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3711 Posts
August 11 2011 23:54 GMT
#400
On August 12 2011 08:54 Alexl wrote:
Am I the only one thinking the "reove the security deposit" part was because koreans decided they would screw teh viewers and pretty much stop playing their matchs when they wanted to? (when they were sure to qualify for example)


The Koreans played every single match in Season 1, something that foreigner can't even come close to saying.
do you have enough resolve, hero of justice?
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