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On August 13 2011 01:21 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 01:19 Namu wrote:On August 13 2011 01:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:15 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:14 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:12 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:07 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:05 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:03 busbarn wrote:
Is the avarage korean/average sponsor economy so bad that they can't send people to events? I mean, they are no superstars, they should expect to pay it all by themselves. SC2 teams are definitely not very strong when it comes to finance atm. However that is not why they pulled out. They pulled out because they felt the tourney isn't profitable for them or for their players. Ok one US dollar is approx: 1,200 won (or near it) How could winning the grand prize or even a lower prize and then having it transferred to won NOT be profitable? Things just aren't adding up here. Maybe there is more to the story. Just because exchanging US currency to Korean currency ends up in bigger numeric number, doesn't necessarily mean taking US currency to Korea is more profitable than winning the same amount in Korean won. Actually it does. Show me facts proving that it won't. You are making it sound like Korea is a third world country where u can take one month's paycheck and live like an emperor. You are horribly mistaken. That's your opinion. Have you lived in Korea? Do you know the difference in the currency? I am just asking for evidence since you are talking like you know it all. Are you saying because 1200 is a larger number than 1, 1200 won > 1 dollar? I'm so confused right now.. If your confused, why engage in the debate? lol
i'm confused because that is too stupid for a non troll to honestly believe in
so stop trolling
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a shame, but i think i might enjoy this more.i generally like foreigner games more. For one thing its a lot more interesting to watch with fun cool strategies as well as the Korean Scene is so juvenile and bad mannered. i think i will enjoy NASL more now
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On August 13 2011 01:20 Abrafred wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 01:14 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:12 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:07 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:05 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:03 busbarn wrote:
Is the avarage korean/average sponsor economy so bad that they can't send people to events? I mean, they are no superstars, they should expect to pay it all by themselves. SC2 teams are definitely not very strong when it comes to finance atm. However that is not why they pulled out. They pulled out because they felt the tourney isn't profitable for them or for their players. Ok one US dollar is approx: 1,200 won (or near it) How could winning the grand prize or even a lower prize and then having it transferred to won NOT be profitable? Things just aren't adding up here. Maybe there is more to the story. Just because exchanging US currency to Korean currency ends up in bigger numeric number, doesn't necessarily mean taking US currency to Korea is more profitable than winning the same amount in Korean won. Actually it does. Show me facts proving that it won't. This must be a professional troll or the saddest commenter i've ever encountered in any online blog. Honestly, i feel too sad to try and explain how wrong this man is.
Please take time and explain how wrong I am.
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On August 13 2011 01:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 01:15 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:14 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:12 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:07 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:05 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:03 busbarn wrote:
Is the avarage korean/average sponsor economy so bad that they can't send people to events? I mean, they are no superstars, they should expect to pay it all by themselves. SC2 teams are definitely not very strong when it comes to finance atm. However that is not why they pulled out. They pulled out because they felt the tourney isn't profitable for them or for their players. Ok one US dollar is approx: 1,200 won (or near it) How could winning the grand prize or even a lower prize and then having it transferred to won NOT be profitable? Things just aren't adding up here. Maybe there is more to the story. Just because exchanging US currency to Korean currency ends up in bigger numeric number, doesn't necessarily mean taking US currency to Korea is more profitable than winning the same amount in Korean won. Actually it does. Show me facts proving that it won't. You are making it sound like Korea is a third world country where u can take one month's paycheck and live like an emperor. You are horribly mistaken. That's your opinion. Have you lived in Korea? Do you know the difference in the currency? I am just asking for evidence since you are talking like you know it all.
Actually I have.
I immigrated to Canada from Korea when I was 12 years old, and I have gone back there several times in the mean time.
Living expense in Korea is not cheap, nor is their economy in shambles.
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On August 13 2011 01:21 Benga wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 01:14 Misery[BH] wrote:On August 13 2011 01:13 Abrafred wrote:
Now Catz can be happy without even having to participate!! success hooray nerf the competition so we have a chance at winning money without dedication and passion Good news is those NA players wont win this tournament either. A few koreans and europeans migrating,they dont have a chance
All I'm asking for is the best player to win, North Americans to show improvement, and exciting games. It might take foreigners 100 ass beatings to realize they need to take things more seriously, but it'll happen some day.
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On August 13 2011 01:20 Abrafred wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 01:14 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:12 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:07 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:05 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:03 busbarn wrote:
Is the avarage korean/average sponsor economy so bad that they can't send people to events? I mean, they are no superstars, they should expect to pay it all by themselves. SC2 teams are definitely not very strong when it comes to finance atm. However that is not why they pulled out. They pulled out because they felt the tourney isn't profitable for them or for their players. Ok one US dollar is approx: 1,200 won (or near it) How could winning the grand prize or even a lower prize and then having it transferred to won NOT be profitable? Things just aren't adding up here. Maybe there is more to the story. Just because exchanging US currency to Korean currency ends up in bigger numeric number, doesn't necessarily mean taking US currency to Korea is more profitable than winning the same amount in Korean won. Actually it does. Show me facts proving that it won't. This must be a professional troll or the saddest commenter i've ever encountered in any online blog. Honestly, i feel too sad to try and explain how wrong this man is.
Winning $X and then converting $X to $Y means you have more money. Seems pretty simple to me. =) Now if you have to spend money to win money then you could possibly lose money. But that doesn't appear to be the case here.
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On August 13 2011 01:22 LuciferSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 01:19 PHILtheTANK wrote:On August 13 2011 01:10 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:06 PHILtheTANK wrote:On August 13 2011 00:34 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 00:22 whateverpeeps wrote:On August 12 2011 23:55 tripper688 wrote:On August 12 2011 23:34 chatuka wrote:
I disagree, I think qualifiers carry a very severe degree of commitment, especially considering the fact that when you qualify, you take a spot in the season that many others would have wanted.
I would say boycotting after season 2 started was purely unacceptable. There is no reason why the boycott could not have been issued a month before, week before, etc. which would have given more time for NASL to find replacements.
The reason why they didn't is that they didn't want their negotiator (NASL) to have very much power in their decision, and make them more willing to yield as it puts them against the wall.
If the boycott was issued a month ago, I don't' think NASL would have tried as hard to get Koreans in the league. They made some pretty big concessions...I guess it was just not enough for the Koreans. You can disagree but it doesn't make you correct. Unless you have a contract from the qualifiers explicitly obligating participation in the upcoming league, they aren't bound to do anything. Invites are turned down all the time. Even Code A and Code S spots are played for and then discarded. I fail to see how it's any different for NASL. You say it's unacceptable for Koreans to boycott after Season 2 starts. How is that relevant when the announced start date was 8/30/11? Unless you count qualifiers as when the events start in which case, that's still the fault of NASL for not scheduling ANY down time between 2 seasons to work out the kinks in their event. They notified NASL of their grievances and their threat to withdraw in preparation for season 2. Doesn't sound to me like they got together a day before the tournament starts (at the end of this month...) to say pay us more or we leave and you're screwed. The fact that NASL decided to go ahead with a tournament and start filming and preparations without finishing contracts for a quarter of their players and having no contingency has nothing to do with Koreans. That's just sloppy organization and management. I'm not sure how your arguments have any legs to stand on. And why do you think you are in a position of correctness? I read the OP. It states that Koreans expressed issues prior to season 2 starting, but were still in negotiation with NASL. They made their FINAL decision to boycott AFTER NASL started filming season 2. Could this decision not be made any sooner? I believe it could have, and I believe it was intentionally not done so because it is a very common business practice to put your negotiator in a tight position and more yielding to demands. I've also assumed there was some agreement, whether contracted or verbal, that made NASL continue filming season 2 despite the negotiations being ongoing. It seems to me that the boycott caught NASL off guard, which implies that this was not an expected outcome. And I think NASL would have expected it had the SC2Con been more explicit and outspoken about not willing to participate.. The truth is I don't think they were because I really don't think they DON'T want to participate in the NASL. I think they do, but are playing hard-ball. Perhaps NASL should have been more cautious about what's going to happen with the situation, but, it's a two way street. You cannot blame this entirely on NASL and say it's sloppy organization - organization is not the question here at all. There is no connection between what is happening and NASL's organization, and to make a connection is to reach for straws. After all, NASL seems to have already taken up to finding replacements and has not issued a delay of season 2, which implies their organization did account for bad luck. It's just crappy that they were put in this situation in the first place, when it could have been avoided. If SC2Con had no intention about playing in Season 2, it is a point that should have been made well aware to the NASL. The boycott should have been decided much earlier on, not after filming. There is no good excuse for that. It seems to me that negotiations and issues were presented early on, but the SC2Con lead NASL to believe it would be resolved in time for season 2. Both are to blame then....NASL for not being cautious and SC2Con for not being more expedient and transparent. The whole deal is called negotiation. Have to tell u the same thing that u said: U can't put the blame on one party for having the negotiation not work. (ie. SC2Con in your case) Not on ethical level, and certainly not on 'legal' level. For ur last paragraph, NASL could've just as easily mislead SC2Con into thinking the same. You're wrong, you CAN put all the blame on one side in a negotiation. SC2Con said "We want you to pay all costs".... NASL increased their offer, SC2Con said "We want you to pay all costs".... NASL increased their offer again, to the highest limit they could go within their budget, and SC2Con said "No, we want you to pay all costs." NASL tried to negotiate, they tried to make concessions so the koreans could come, but its clear that either SC2Con had no plan to let their players play from the beginning, or they are just fond of making completely unreasonable demands. That comes from the difference in their views. SC2Con made such demand because they felt that their players participating in the tournament had significant monetary and other benefit for NASL. Not to mention the fact that their profitability in NASL may not have seemed as appealing for SC2Con. Now if you feel that view isn't deserved - that's your personal call. I don't think anyone can simply state that SC2Con is wrong to think in such way. Maybe foreigners in the MLG-GSL program should not only receive their code A spot, adn their free housing, but they should demand that the prizepool for round of 32 be increased to 1000 dollars to make it extremely profitable for them with 0 risk... that would clearly make sense too right? Besides this has absolutely nothing to do with whether they find it profitable or not to send their players, its just SC2Con sending a message. If it was about profitabilty they would let their players and teams make their own individual choices. Do you think that a player like MC wouldn't come to a tournament that was guaranteed 350 dollars, with a very good chance that he would leave with a 40,000 dollar check? Of course he, and other players his caliber, would come. But it should be his choice, not some stupid fucking committee that is putting a blanket ban on it to send a message. Foreigners aren't in the same spotlight to be making such claim - their presence does have benefit for GSL in sense they may broaden their audience population, but no one can argue that they raise the level of the tournament. The argument you are making is very subjective. Others, especially the Korean pros may feel differently.
Ironically
Code A
Ro32(16 players) : 200,000won each
Ro16(8 players) : 400,000won each
Ro8(4 players) : 600,000won each
Semifinals(2 players) : 800,000won each
Runner-up : 1,000,000won
Champion : 1,500,000won
They do receive a stipend.
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There is season 2??after such a failed season one?
User was banned for this post.
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On August 13 2011 01:22 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 01:21 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:19 Namu wrote:On August 13 2011 01:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:15 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:14 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:12 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:07 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:05 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:03 busbarn wrote:
Is the avarage korean/average sponsor economy so bad that they can't send people to events? I mean, they are no superstars, they should expect to pay it all by themselves. SC2 teams are definitely not very strong when it comes to finance atm. However that is not why they pulled out. They pulled out because they felt the tourney isn't profitable for them or for their players. Ok one US dollar is approx: 1,200 won (or near it) How could winning the grand prize or even a lower prize and then having it transferred to won NOT be profitable? Things just aren't adding up here. Maybe there is more to the story. Just because exchanging US currency to Korean currency ends up in bigger numeric number, doesn't necessarily mean taking US currency to Korea is more profitable than winning the same amount in Korean won. Actually it does. Show me facts proving that it won't. You are making it sound like Korea is a third world country where u can take one month's paycheck and live like an emperor. You are horribly mistaken. That's your opinion. Have you lived in Korea? Do you know the difference in the currency? I am just asking for evidence since you are talking like you know it all. Are you saying because 1200 is a larger number than 1, 1200 won > 1 dollar? I'm so confused right now.. If your confused, why engage in the debate? lol i'm confused because that is too stupid for a non troll to honestly believe in so stop trolling
Ok explain. You keep talking but aren't backing up your reasons. And calling me a troll for figuring out possible solutions to fix the NASLs problem doesn't really help much either.
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On August 13 2011 01:21 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 01:19 Namu wrote:On August 13 2011 01:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:15 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:14 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:12 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:07 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:05 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:03 busbarn wrote:
Is the avarage korean/average sponsor economy so bad that they can't send people to events? I mean, they are no superstars, they should expect to pay it all by themselves. SC2 teams are definitely not very strong when it comes to finance atm. However that is not why they pulled out. They pulled out because they felt the tourney isn't profitable for them or for their players. Ok one US dollar is approx: 1,200 won (or near it) How could winning the grand prize or even a lower prize and then having it transferred to won NOT be profitable? Things just aren't adding up here. Maybe there is more to the story. Just because exchanging US currency to Korean currency ends up in bigger numeric number, doesn't necessarily mean taking US currency to Korea is more profitable than winning the same amount in Korean won. Actually it does. Show me facts proving that it won't. You are making it sound like Korea is a third world country where u can take one month's paycheck and live like an emperor. You are horribly mistaken. That's your opinion. Have you lived in Korea? Do you know the difference in the currency? I am just asking for evidence since you are talking like you know it all. Are you saying because 1200 is a larger number than 1, 1200 won > 1 dollar? I'm so confused right now.. If your confused, why engage in the debate? lol
this is getting annoying. he is purposefully pissing everyone off. someone temp ban him
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On August 13 2011 01:22 LuciferSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 01:19 PHILtheTANK wrote:On August 13 2011 01:10 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:06 PHILtheTANK wrote:On August 13 2011 00:34 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 00:22 whateverpeeps wrote:On August 12 2011 23:55 tripper688 wrote:On August 12 2011 23:34 chatuka wrote:
I disagree, I think qualifiers carry a very severe degree of commitment, especially considering the fact that when you qualify, you take a spot in the season that many others would have wanted.
I would say boycotting after season 2 started was purely unacceptable. There is no reason why the boycott could not have been issued a month before, week before, etc. which would have given more time for NASL to find replacements.
The reason why they didn't is that they didn't want their negotiator (NASL) to have very much power in their decision, and make them more willing to yield as it puts them against the wall.
If the boycott was issued a month ago, I don't' think NASL would have tried as hard to get Koreans in the league. They made some pretty big concessions...I guess it was just not enough for the Koreans. You can disagree but it doesn't make you correct. Unless you have a contract from the qualifiers explicitly obligating participation in the upcoming league, they aren't bound to do anything. Invites are turned down all the time. Even Code A and Code S spots are played for and then discarded. I fail to see how it's any different for NASL. You say it's unacceptable for Koreans to boycott after Season 2 starts. How is that relevant when the announced start date was 8/30/11? Unless you count qualifiers as when the events start in which case, that's still the fault of NASL for not scheduling ANY down time between 2 seasons to work out the kinks in their event. They notified NASL of their grievances and their threat to withdraw in preparation for season 2. Doesn't sound to me like they got together a day before the tournament starts (at the end of this month...) to say pay us more or we leave and you're screwed. The fact that NASL decided to go ahead with a tournament and start filming and preparations without finishing contracts for a quarter of their players and having no contingency has nothing to do with Koreans. That's just sloppy organization and management. I'm not sure how your arguments have any legs to stand on. And why do you think you are in a position of correctness? I read the OP. It states that Koreans expressed issues prior to season 2 starting, but were still in negotiation with NASL. They made their FINAL decision to boycott AFTER NASL started filming season 2. Could this decision not be made any sooner? I believe it could have, and I believe it was intentionally not done so because it is a very common business practice to put your negotiator in a tight position and more yielding to demands. I've also assumed there was some agreement, whether contracted or verbal, that made NASL continue filming season 2 despite the negotiations being ongoing. It seems to me that the boycott caught NASL off guard, which implies that this was not an expected outcome. And I think NASL would have expected it had the SC2Con been more explicit and outspoken about not willing to participate.. The truth is I don't think they were because I really don't think they DON'T want to participate in the NASL. I think they do, but are playing hard-ball. Perhaps NASL should have been more cautious about what's going to happen with the situation, but, it's a two way street. You cannot blame this entirely on NASL and say it's sloppy organization - organization is not the question here at all. There is no connection between what is happening and NASL's organization, and to make a connection is to reach for straws. After all, NASL seems to have already taken up to finding replacements and has not issued a delay of season 2, which implies their organization did account for bad luck. It's just crappy that they were put in this situation in the first place, when it could have been avoided. If SC2Con had no intention about playing in Season 2, it is a point that should have been made well aware to the NASL. The boycott should have been decided much earlier on, not after filming. There is no good excuse for that. It seems to me that negotiations and issues were presented early on, but the SC2Con lead NASL to believe it would be resolved in time for season 2. Both are to blame then....NASL for not being cautious and SC2Con for not being more expedient and transparent. The whole deal is called negotiation. Have to tell u the same thing that u said: U can't put the blame on one party for having the negotiation not work. (ie. SC2Con in your case) Not on ethical level, and certainly not on 'legal' level. For ur last paragraph, NASL could've just as easily mislead SC2Con into thinking the same. You're wrong, you CAN put all the blame on one side in a negotiation. SC2Con said "We want you to pay all costs".... NASL increased their offer, SC2Con said "We want you to pay all costs".... NASL increased their offer again, to the highest limit they could go within their budget, and SC2Con said "No, we want you to pay all costs." NASL tried to negotiate, they tried to make concessions so the koreans could come, but its clear that either SC2Con had no plan to let their players play from the beginning, or they are just fond of making completely unreasonable demands. That comes from the difference in their views. SC2Con made such demand because they felt that their players participating in the tournament had significant monetary and other benefit for NASL. Not to mention the fact that their profitability in NASL may not have seemed as appealing for SC2Con. Now if you feel that view isn't deserved - that's your personal call. I don't think anyone can simply state that SC2Con is wrong to think in such way. Maybe foreigners in the MLG-GSL program should not only receive their code A spot, adn their free housing, but they should demand that the prizepool for round of 32 be increased to 1000 dollars to make it extremely profitable for them with 0 risk... that would clearly make sense too right? Besides this has absolutely nothing to do with whether they find it profitable or not to send their players, its just SC2Con sending a message. If it was about profitabilty they would let their players and teams make their own individual choices. Do you think that a player like MC wouldn't come to a tournament that was guaranteed 350 dollars, with a very good chance that he would leave with a 40,000 dollar check? Of course he, and other players his caliber, would come. But it should be his choice, not some stupid fucking committee that is putting a blanket ban on it to send a message. Foreigners aren't in the same spotlight to be making such claim - their presence does have benefit for GSL in sense they may broaden their audience population, but no one can argue that they raise the level of the tournament. The argument you are making is very subjective. Others, especially the Korean pros may feel differently.
You do understand that in Korea Starcraft: Brood War is a very niche "sport", it has the same level of popularity as like the WWE does in America. Starcraft 2's scene is miniscule there compared to brood war. There is a reason why Mr. Chae and GOM want foreigners to come to GSL so badly, and that is that it DOES broaden their audience participation. Just because they might not be on the same level of play as Koreans doesn't mean they don't command a huge foreigner following.
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GreedisGood
Let's see if the SC2Conf will revise their decison again.
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On August 13 2011 01:24 Abrafred wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 01:21 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:19 Namu wrote:On August 13 2011 01:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:15 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:14 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:12 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:07 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:05 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:03 busbarn wrote:
Is the avarage korean/average sponsor economy so bad that they can't send people to events? I mean, they are no superstars, they should expect to pay it all by themselves. SC2 teams are definitely not very strong when it comes to finance atm. However that is not why they pulled out. They pulled out because they felt the tourney isn't profitable for them or for their players. Ok one US dollar is approx: 1,200 won (or near it) How could winning the grand prize or even a lower prize and then having it transferred to won NOT be profitable? Things just aren't adding up here. Maybe there is more to the story. Just because exchanging US currency to Korean currency ends up in bigger numeric number, doesn't necessarily mean taking US currency to Korea is more profitable than winning the same amount in Korean won. Actually it does. Show me facts proving that it won't. You are making it sound like Korea is a third world country where u can take one month's paycheck and live like an emperor. You are horribly mistaken. That's your opinion. Have you lived in Korea? Do you know the difference in the currency? I am just asking for evidence since you are talking like you know it all. Are you saying because 1200 is a larger number than 1, 1200 won > 1 dollar? I'm so confused right now.. If your confused, why engage in the debate? lol this is getting annoying. he is purposefully pissing everyone off. someone temp ban him
lol. See dude, you can't even back up your statements and now you have no defense so you resort to the whole "temp ban", get real man. Please, quote my statements that involve pissing people off because there aren't any. I pointed out a solution NASL could do to save their tournament and tried to figure out how Koreans couldn't make a profit of foreign currency. Now I am a troll because of this? lol
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On August 13 2011 01:20 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 01:15 NEOtheONE wrote:
So let me get this straight, in order to participate in the GSL, you are basically expected to move to Korea, and I am under the impression that they do not pay for a single penny of foreigner expenses to get there. Please correct me if I am wrong.
THANK YOU! More people need to see the selfishness of Koreas decision. Foreigners have to make sacrafices and Koreans should as well.
Your're wrong. Stop talking. Non-Koreans don't practice enough. Korean practice, sacrificing their social and professional lives. End of discussion. There are no foreigner progamers, only celebrities who happen to play starcraft.
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On August 13 2011 01:26 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 01:24 Abrafred wrote:On August 13 2011 01:21 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:19 Namu wrote:On August 13 2011 01:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:15 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:14 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:12 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:07 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:05 LuciferSC wrote:
[quote]
SC2 teams are definitely not very strong when it comes to finance atm.
However that is not why they pulled out.
They pulled out because they felt the tourney isn't profitable for them or for their players. Ok one US dollar is approx: 1,200 won (or near it) How could winning the grand prize or even a lower prize and then having it transferred to won NOT be profitable? Things just aren't adding up here. Maybe there is more to the story. Just because exchanging US currency to Korean currency ends up in bigger numeric number, doesn't necessarily mean taking US currency to Korea is more profitable than winning the same amount in Korean won. Actually it does. Show me facts proving that it won't. You are making it sound like Korea is a third world country where u can take one month's paycheck and live like an emperor. You are horribly mistaken. That's your opinion. Have you lived in Korea? Do you know the difference in the currency? I am just asking for evidence since you are talking like you know it all. Are you saying because 1200 is a larger number than 1, 1200 won > 1 dollar? I'm so confused right now.. If your confused, why engage in the debate? lol this is getting annoying. he is purposefully pissing everyone off. someone temp ban him lol. See dude, you can't even back up your statements and now you have no defense so you resort to the whole "temp ban", get real man. Please, quote my statements that involve pissing people off because there aren't any.
i think you're either really ignorant or a huge troll and stopped taking you seriously a long time ago
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So the entire thread comes down to the following.
1. I want to win all the money
2. I don't want to pay the deposit
3. I don't want to pay to come to your tournament
4. Pay me immediately please.
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I think the timing is bad on Sc2Con's part, but if the two sides couldn't come to an agreement, they couldn't come to an agreement. That happens sometimes.
For me, the biggest issue here is that it underlines how terrible the financial situation is for the Korean teams. We knew some of this already (via fOu's purchase by FXO), but learning that this really insignificant amount of money (in the big picture) is a make-or-break non-conditional demand by Sc2Con must mean that they are really, really hurting.
We have NASL offering $1000 travel allowance and a $1000 minimum prize to the top 16, and travel expenses of approximately $1700-$1800 or so. Even if the contract between the team and the player says that the player keeps the prize money, we're talking about a $700-$800 expense on the part of the team, in exchange for a guaranteed $1000 for the player. The player is going to know this, and appreciate the opportunity and the expense incurred by the team, and so to them, it really looks like a bonus from the team to the player. Which is huge for morale and loyalty. (This is completely setting aside any other advantages to the team with regards to increased visibility for sponsors, etc.)
If I'm running a team, this is definitely worth the money, unless I'm literally broke and can't afford to pay one of my best players $700. That the Korean SC2 teams are in this dire of a financial position is very worrisome for the whole scene.
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On August 13 2011 01:28 purecarnagge wrote:
So the entire thread comes down to the following.
1. I want to win all the money
2. I don't want to pay the deposit
3. I don't want to pay to come to your tournament
4. Pay me immediately please.
yeah, i guess if you look at it from a biased, introverted point of view, that surmise is pretty accurate
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On August 13 2011 01:02 Lobo2me wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 00:13 tripper688 wrote:On August 12 2011 23:49 Lobo2me wrote:
While his post might not have meant it, the way I read it it's partly correct.
It's a NA based league, of course people in NA will get more comfort in it. It's better for their time zone and smaller traveling expenses, and it fits well with the production they chose. While it's unfortunate for koreans that they're in a bad time zone, it's up to them to choose if they want to play in that league or not.
Let's say that a player complained that Dreamhack was in Sweden, or that it was a LAN. Should Dreamhack start having their tournament in other countries or have online players as well? Or what about requiring people to be in Korea or even play at bad NA time zones for GSL? Should GOM change their league to an online league with random times to accommodate every single player in the world?
No, that would be silly. The tournament organizers aren't catering to a specific server, they're making stuff better for themselves. Just like if there was an online international KRSL, it would most likely follow normal Korean time zones, and it would be up to international players to decide if they wanted to play or not. ...This entire argument is silly. GSL is a LAN. Dreamhack is a LAN. People prefer LANs for the very reason that you get to avoid the time zone and latency BS. You show up a day or two early and you're completely fine for your matches. The NASL was not formed to create a league that would handicap foreigners. It was formed to be the American answer to GSL, where we could have the best players playing in an NA tournament for the best prize. And in any case, your argument further makes no sense because NASL accommodates EU players and even the casters more than the KR players. Does the Tour de France require foreigners to arrive the day of the race or use heavier bikes? The tournament is supposed to have a level playing field. I honestly can't believe I'm reading comments suggesting otherwise. As for GSL, the foreigners are given a play to stay, organized meets with other teams for practice and acclimation, and that's done for the duration of their stay. Sounds like they sure are going out of their way to ignore the foreigners right? NASL Finals is a LAN. Yet that was one of the things at the center why they wouldn't/couldn't come. I have no doubt that if it was a fully online league with that price pool, there would be no problems with playing at 4 AM for 3 months. The NASL accomodates EU players better because they happen to live in a time zone where it isn't uncomfortable. That's all there is to that. The structure NASL chose for their production will make it happen (games cast live, having a normal work schedule for their casters). Why is it up to the producers of the league to mess up the sleeping schedule of themselves and many players to have a tournament at a time where it won't mess up the sleeping schedule of some other players? Which korean online tournaments change their schedule so that international players can play at a better time (and at the same time making it worse for the producers of the tournament and the korean players)? It's not up to the organizers to change their production to accommodate everyone that plays in the league when time zones make it impossible. And people that don't like it, aren't forced to play in it either. Your main point is "3 months of playing under horrible conditions", but I see the biggest reason to don't go to NASL is that the teams can't afford sending every player qualifying for the finals. And the finals is just a LAN with online qualifiers. No one cares about there not being koreans at every single european LAN with 3-5k dollars first price, just like they don't care about every NA/EU pro going there, but because it's NASL some people blame the organizers for not accommodating players with demands (some reasonable, some unreasonable) they have no obligation to accommodate. You can't ride a bike at Tour the France while being at the other side of the world, that's a silly argument. And it's not punishing foreigners (in France) with a heavier bike, it's just not giving them benefits to make up for it when they choose to (or have to) ride with a heavier bike. Yes, there are ways this could be done fair for every player(or at least equally unfair). Most of them are completely ridiculous for the people running this tournament. If they're getting these kind of problems of getting players to play within a set time frame on one server, imagine how it would be if games could be played at every single hour of the day across 3 servers.
Koreans don't host online tournies and if you look at a globe, you would see what that it's not impossible to make more reasonable scheduling times. 4am korean time translates to 4pm US Central which translates to about 10pm in western Europe (maybe 11pm). Are you saying it's too much of a hassle for Euros to play at 12pm and US players to play at 6pm (oh no I might miss dinner D so that Kr could play at a somewhat decent 6am? Or god forbid we rotated the time slots every few matches. That would surely be so unfair. Have you not read the thread? Teams are complaining that it's not financial sound for them to take 3 months out of their time to do this tournament when half the r/o16 will make nothing after expenses. It's not just about sending their players there, the tournament takes a toll on them during the year as well. July woke up at 4am for a match, got stood up for 4 hours, then went to GSL with no sleep for a tournament that has an equal prize pool and greater prestige. Are you telling me Euro's are giving up anything near as much and can't be bothered to switch times a bit for more parity? As for Koreans being accommodating, do you follow GSL? You realize GOM restructured their broadcasting for Code A in order for European foreigners to partake in foreign events? Has NASL every done ANYTHING as drastic for ANYONE? We're talking about actually pushing back an entire block of group play by a day. Live broadcast. When foreigners can't play in GSL, it's not because of scheduling or not being invited. It's because they just aren't good enough to qualify or stay in the league. What GOM did for Jinro, Nani, Sase, and Thorzain is just as, if not more impressive than what NASL was willing to do for their foreign invites. Let's end it at that.
On August 13 2011 01:06 PHILtheTANK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 00:34 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 00:22 whateverpeeps wrote:On August 12 2011 23:55 tripper688 wrote:On August 12 2011 23:34 chatuka wrote:
I disagree, I think qualifiers carry a very severe degree of commitment, especially considering the fact that when you qualify, you take a spot in the season that many others would have wanted.
I would say boycotting after season 2 started was purely unacceptable. There is no reason why the boycott could not have been issued a month before, week before, etc. which would have given more time for NASL to find replacements.
The reason why they didn't is that they didn't want their negotiator (NASL) to have very much power in their decision, and make them more willing to yield as it puts them against the wall.
If the boycott was issued a month ago, I don't' think NASL would have tried as hard to get Koreans in the league. They made some pretty big concessions...I guess it was just not enough for the Koreans. You can disagree but it doesn't make you correct. Unless you have a contract from the qualifiers explicitly obligating participation in the upcoming league, they aren't bound to do anything. Invites are turned down all the time. Even Code A and Code S spots are played for and then discarded. I fail to see how it's any different for NASL. You say it's unacceptable for Koreans to boycott after Season 2 starts. How is that relevant when the announced start date was 8/30/11? Unless you count qualifiers as when the events start in which case, that's still the fault of NASL for not scheduling ANY down time between 2 seasons to work out the kinks in their event. They notified NASL of their grievances and their threat to withdraw in preparation for season 2. Doesn't sound to me like they got together a day before the tournament starts (at the end of this month...) to say pay us more or we leave and you're screwed. The fact that NASL decided to go ahead with a tournament and start filming and preparations without finishing contracts for a quarter of their players and having no contingency has nothing to do with Koreans. That's just sloppy organization and management. I'm not sure how your arguments have any legs to stand on. And why do you think you are in a position of correctness? I read the OP. It states that Koreans expressed issues prior to season 2 starting, but were still in negotiation with NASL. They made their FINAL decision to boycott AFTER NASL started filming season 2. Could this decision not be made any sooner? I believe it could have, and I believe it was intentionally not done so because it is a very common business practice to put your negotiator in a tight position and more yielding to demands. I've also assumed there was some agreement, whether contracted or verbal, that made NASL continue filming season 2 despite the negotiations being ongoing. It seems to me that the boycott caught NASL off guard, which implies that this was not an expected outcome. And I think NASL would have expected it had the SC2Con been more explicit and outspoken about not willing to participate.. The truth is I don't think they were because I really don't think they DON'T want to participate in the NASL. I think they do, but are playing hard-ball. Perhaps NASL should have been more cautious about what's going to happen with the situation, but, it's a two way street. You cannot blame this entirely on NASL and say it's sloppy organization - organization is not the question here at all. There is no connection between what is happening and NASL's organization, and to make a connection is to reach for straws. After all, NASL seems to have already taken up to finding replacements and has not issued a delay of season 2, which implies their organization did account for bad luck. It's just crappy that they were put in this situation in the first place, when it could have been avoided. If SC2Con had no intention about playing in Season 2, it is a point that should have been made well aware to the NASL. The boycott should have been decided much earlier on, not after filming. There is no good excuse for that. It seems to me that negotiations and issues were presented early on, but the SC2Con lead NASL to believe it would be resolved in time for season 2. Both are to blame then....NASL for not being cautious and SC2Con for not being more expedient and transparent. The whole deal is called negotiation. Have to tell u the same thing that u said: U can't put the blame on one party for having the negotiation not work. (ie. SC2Con in your case) Not on ethical level, and certainly not on 'legal' level. For ur last paragraph, NASL could've just as easily mislead SC2Con into thinking the same. You're wrong, you CAN put all the blame on one side in a negotiation. SC2Con said "We want you to pay all costs".... NASL increased their offer, SC2Con said "We want you to pay all costs".... NASL increased their offer again, to the highest limit they could go within their budget, and SC2Con said "No, we want you to pay all costs." NASL tried to negotiate, they tried to make concessions so the koreans could come, but its clear that either SC2Con had no plan to let their players play from the beginning, or they are just fond of making completely unreasonable demands.
Hardball is perfectly valid. If you object to their demands, tell them to leave and find new players. They gave you weeks. They also would not drive as hard a bargain if the NASL wasn't so uncomfortable for their own players, something which the NASL could have done something about in season 1 but did not. You could say they played hard with the Koreans by giving them a shitty schedule and not attempting to equalize it last season. This season the Koreans are doing the same at the negotiating table.
On August 13 2011 01:07 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 01:05 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:03 busbarn wrote:
Is the avarage korean/average sponsor economy so bad that they can't send people to events? I mean, they are no superstars, they should expect to pay it all by themselves. SC2 teams are definitely not very strong when it comes to finance atm. However that is not why they pulled out. They pulled out because they felt the tourney isn't profitable for them or for their players. Ok one US dollar is approx: 1,200 won (or near it) How could winning the grand prize or even a lower prize and then having it transferred to won NOT be profitable? Things just aren't adding up here. Maybe there is more to the story.
Because when a meal of fried chicken costs 16,000 won, a couple hundred USD for R/O16 becomes not worthwhile for 3 months of headache. It's not like the Koreans are going to coast once they hit R/O16. They'll likely play almost nothing but KvK which they could do in Korea without the hassle.
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On August 13 2011 01:27 Misery[BH] wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2011 01:26 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:24 Abrafred wrote:On August 13 2011 01:21 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:19 Namu wrote:On August 13 2011 01:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:15 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:14 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 13 2011 01:12 LuciferSC wrote:On August 13 2011 01:07 BlazeFury01 wrote:
[quote]
Ok one US dollar is approx: 1,200 won (or near it)
How could winning the grand prize or even a lower prize and then having it transferred to won NOT be profitable?
Things just aren't adding up here. Maybe there is more to the story. Just because exchanging US currency to Korean currency ends up in bigger numeric number, doesn't necessarily mean taking US currency to Korea is more profitable than winning the same amount in Korean won. Actually it does. Show me facts proving that it won't. You are making it sound like Korea is a third world country where u can take one month's paycheck and live like an emperor. You are horribly mistaken. That's your opinion. Have you lived in Korea? Do you know the difference in the currency? I am just asking for evidence since you are talking like you know it all. Are you saying because 1200 is a larger number than 1, 1200 won > 1 dollar? I'm so confused right now.. If your confused, why engage in the debate? lol this is getting annoying. he is purposefully pissing everyone off. someone temp ban him lol. See dude, you can't even back up your statements and now you have no defense so you resort to the whole "temp ban", get real man. Please, quote my statements that involve pissing people off because there aren't any. i think you're either really ignorant or a huge troll and stopped taking you seriously a long time ago
Like I said with the other guy. You result to name calling when you do not have a defense to back up the statements you have been arguing with me about. I proved what I had to say, you on the other hand can not and have not. Please, quote something I said that makes me a troll or ignorant.
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