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On August 12 2011 23:19 Misery[BH] wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 23:11 Yuriegh wrote:On August 12 2011 22:58 Misery[BH] wrote:On August 12 2011 22:45 DyEnasTy wrote:
I look foward to not seeing all the koreans. Itll be nice to see a foreigner have a better shot. I do hope though that the koreans that signed with foreign teams play.
Will they? that's like getting high school football when you wanted to watch NFL if anything i'm more disappointed in the foreign players who just plain suck compared to the highest tier players. if you're getting paid to play this game professionally and consider yourself an e-athlete then at least try to practice hard and train enough to match the skill of korean players. theres no enjoyment in watching players such as cruncher, tt1, catz, incontrol, qxc, dde, slush, haypro, bratok, goody, machine, socke, tyler, drewbie, painuser getting stomped by people who actually take things seriously. to be fair, some of those people have been practicing and adjusting practice regiments to get better, but others are just a joke. you can tune into catz's stream to watch him play use map settings games then catch him a week later in some online tourny getting stomped. they don't take it seriously and they're privileged to be as known as they are and they take advantage of the fact that they can make money from their stream even though they're complete and utter shit compared to the real competition. i hope to see foreigners step up this time when i tune into nasl season 2 and provide some entertaining, high skilled games. TT1 who used to be #1 on ladder - InControL one of the great protoss's - QXC all killed team IM - DDE has seen much improvement - Bratok is Russian and one of the greatest terrans right now - Goody? really? he beat Nestea yeah he's bad - Socke is inconsistent yet one of the best out there when he's at his best - Painuser is much more of a caster than a player yet he is still a very good player. Please consider who you bash before you say something without facts. I don't care how good a player is on the ladder. TT1 actually did alright in NASL season 1 though. InControL is garbage and has been for the past year. He has the potential and maybe the practice house will help him out, but as of the last year he's been just awful. Even his ladder w/l ratio is terrible compared to professional standards. There are casual gamers far better than him. bratok is very, very questionable but is one of the better players in the few I mentioned. Goody - Terran mech runs over koreans, they don't see that much. I believe that guy has the potential to revolutionize every terran match up, but he needs a lot of work. Socke- inconsistency is a really bad trait. You can have some bad luck, not always pull amazing results, but inconsistent play isn't professional. I know Painuser is more of a caster and has other things to do, but he shouldn't of even played in season 1. I have considered who I've bashed, and I know the facts
You failed to point them out in your original post was more to my point not truly to discredit you.
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On August 12 2011 23:02 Radook wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 22:55 Kavas wrote:On August 12 2011 22:46 epij wrote:
That's not the reason why it's unfair. Please read the posts. The reason it was unfair was because of the scheduling and latency issues. That, in conjunction with the travel costs, and I can see how it's not worth it for many Koreans to participate. To use a real sports analogy, imagine if the Tour De France decided that all American riders had to endure x amount of extra sleep deprivation or use a 5 pound weight on their bikes. That wouldn't be very would it? And I'm 100% sure that people would complain.
My point was: NASL has its rules, every competitor knows that rules. If you are not able to attend a tournament because of that rules, you can not expect to have them changed just for you. So the whole "it's unfair debate" is stupid. Correct. So the Koreans decided to pull out of it. Who decided to make a thread and a big deal of the whole thing? And mind you it wasn't neutral message like "We regret to inform our viewers that....". Instead it started with, ".....it is with our great displeasure...." and tried to portray the Koreans in a bad light as if they owed NASL something. Where did the OP try to portray the Korean Teams in bad light?
Part of it is already in what you quoted. The language presentation is really aggressive and tries hard to portray NASL as the victim. But that's enough about that.
I wish NASL all the best and hope fans enjoy whatever it has in store.
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On August 12 2011 23:21 TaKemE wrote:
The security deposit is also very very stupid imo and shouldnt be there.
Its there to ensure people will play, didnt do that good for people like painuser though...
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I don't get it, people saying now that there's no koreans they won't watch. WTF guys? There were hardly any Koreans in Season 1 until the finals and it was still highly entertaining. Foreign players still provide highly entertaining games.
If you don't watch... YOUR HURTING ESPORTS 
But im serious about the first part.
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On August 12 2011 22:55 FLuE wrote:
Some of this post isn't accurate, in terms of league/events paying teams, just wanted to point that out, but anyway.
OK! Here an accurate example out of proffessional football. The UEFA championsleague pays every contender who qualifies 900k Euros (600k + 50k per group match (with 6 group matches it makes 300k)). Even if you lose every game you have these 900k. In terms of football you should als recommend that every game held in your own stadium generates additional large income (and every competing teams will have 3 those games) but that's not the point. The point is, that every club gets 900k Euros guaranteed. Which should be enough for high standard travelling (in european borders) on three matchdays. On top of that there are lots of prize money.... etc. Great thing for the club.
I fully understand that the runners of NASL want to make money. But if you are too greedy things like this happen. The participating teams want some pieces of the cake. You have to invest if you want a higher standard of quality which generates more income. And as a e-sports tournament you have also to invest in the players, because quality players mean quality tournament. And that's the point NASL got wrong, so the quality of the tournament will get worse.
I mean who is participating? Some of the Top Europeans like Naniwa, Thorzain, Jinro, Dimaga are out or never were in. I'm not so sure if some players will make the expensive trip to just lose a single bo3 and be out again. So in reality NASL may be becoming a nearly american only tournament. This will not raise the quality of the games.....
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On August 12 2011 23:21 Kavas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 23:02 Radook wrote:On August 12 2011 22:55 Kavas wrote:On August 12 2011 22:46 epij wrote:
That's not the reason why it's unfair. Please read the posts. The reason it was unfair was because of the scheduling and latency issues. That, in conjunction with the travel costs, and I can see how it's not worth it for many Koreans to participate. To use a real sports analogy, imagine if the Tour De France decided that all American riders had to endure x amount of extra sleep deprivation or use a 5 pound weight on their bikes. That wouldn't be very would it? And I'm 100% sure that people would complain.
My point was: NASL has its rules, every competitor knows that rules. If you are not able to attend a tournament because of that rules, you can not expect to have them changed just for you. So the whole "it's unfair debate" is stupid. Correct. So the Koreans decided to pull out of it. Who decided to make a thread and a big deal of the whole thing? And mind you it wasn't neutral message like "We regret to inform our viewers that....". Instead it started with, ".....it is with our great displeasure...." and tried to portray the Koreans in a bad light as if they owed NASL something. Where did the OP try to portray the Korean Teams in bad light? Part of it is already in what you quoted. The language presentation is really aggressive and tries hard to portray NASL as the victim. But that's enough about that. I wish NASL all the best and hope fans enjoy whatever it has in store.
i really disagree. they laid out the facts and just said the koreans found it unacceptable. for me atleast it doesnt put anyone in a bad light. the nasl did what they could to accomodate every player but the koreans, due to lack of funding, couldnt accept the terms.
it doesnt say the koreans cba or thought nasl were fags, it says the koreans just dont have the funding. thats no ones fault
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On August 12 2011 23:20 Papulatus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 22:59 ballasdontcry wrote:
And regarding the 4am thing, why are the Koreans the only ones that have to do it? For equality's sake, why aren't NA players being forced to play at 4am once in a while so Koreans can play at 5pm? Why do this especially when the qualifiers are casted from replays? Why not find a middle ground, say, 8pm NA server time/9am KR server time?
Both sides were looking out for their own good here, NASL isn't free to just point fingers and say the Koreans are unreasonable. Wait, how would you ever develop this opinion? This is called the NORTH AMERICAN Star League. ts only fair that NORTH AMERICANS get an advantage. All people who are not North American should calculate whether they are willing to put in the time to participate in this event. The way that the Koreans are acting is as if they are spoiled children who want something that they will never have. It baffles me that the Koreans would even participate in the qualifiers and fuck up the league if they knew from the beginning that their games would be at 4am and that they would have to pay partially for their trip the NA.
A....its only fair....that they get an advantage? that doesn't even...Think before posting plz How can anyone take the rest of ur post seriously after opening like that.
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On August 12 2011 23:20 Papulatus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 22:59 ballasdontcry wrote:
And regarding the 4am thing, why are the Koreans the only ones that have to do it? For equality's sake, why aren't NA players being forced to play at 4am once in a while so Koreans can play at 5pm? Why do this especially when the qualifiers are casted from replays? Why not find a middle ground, say, 8pm NA server time/9am KR server time?
Both sides were looking out for their own good here, NASL isn't free to just point fingers and say the Koreans are unreasonable. Wait, how would you ever develop this opinion? This is called the NORTH AMERICAN Star League. Its only fair that NORTH AMERICANS get an advantage. All people who are not North American should calculate whether they are willing to put in the time to participate in this event. The way that the Koreans are acting is as if they are spoiled children who want something that they will never have. It baffles me that the Koreans would even participate in the qualifiers and fuck up the league if they knew from the beginning that their games would be at 4am and that they would have to pay partially for their trip the NA.
Of course you are right. No one is putting a gun to the Player's head. IT's not a big deal guys. Let the Korean players decide if they want to participate or not. You are not their mommies. they are big boys now. This shouldn't even be an issue.
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On August 12 2011 23:20 Papulatus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 22:59 ballasdontcry wrote:
And regarding the 4am thing, why are the Koreans the only ones that have to do it? For equality's sake, why aren't NA players being forced to play at 4am once in a while so Koreans can play at 5pm? Why do this especially when the qualifiers are casted from replays? Why not find a middle ground, say, 8pm NA server time/9am KR server time?
Both sides were looking out for their own good here, NASL isn't free to just point fingers and say the Koreans are unreasonable. Wait, how would you ever develop this opinion? This is called the NORTH AMERICAN Star League. Its only fair that NORTH AMERICANS get an advantage. All people who are not North American should calculate whether they are willing to put in the time to participate in this event. The way that the Koreans are acting is as if they are spoiled children who want something that they will never have. It baffles me that the Koreans would even participate in the qualifiers and fuck up the league if they knew from the beginning that their games would be at 4am and that they would have to pay partially for their trip the NA.
Koreans fuck up the league? lol.
The MC-Puma finals were the only thing that saved the league from being a total meltdown last season. If it wasn't for that series stretching out to the last set, all people would remember was that they played the intro videos over and over again, the sound crew was incompetent, and the production value was mediocre. Of course, all of those things are still true, but are diminished by the fact that we got a great finals.
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On August 12 2011 23:23 Sandro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 23:21 TaKemE wrote:
The security deposit is also very very stupid imo and shouldnt be there. Its there to ensure people will play, didnt do that good for people like painuser though...
Yes and thats because the format is bad and it forces them to use the security deposit, instead they should have changed the format so there would not be any pointless game. Now Koreans or anyone els have to play there games even if they cant get anything out of them or they lose their own money and who wants that?
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On August 12 2011 23:04 chatuka wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 22:55 FLuE wrote:On August 12 2011 22:35 TeeTS wrote:On August 12 2011 22:11 epij wrote:
I heard you guys like comparisons to 'real' sport events; do you think the management of global sport events like Tour de France, Soccer World/Euro Cup, F1, ATP World Series, gives a crap about some competitors crying its unfair to pay for their own travel expenses - or worse to pay them travel expenses and yet they still cry they don't get enough assured price money, before they even attend or even if they don't win anything? They've got a shot at winning price money, that's how tournaments work. You are totally wrong! Every comercially run Sportsevent (especially big ones like UEFA Champions League, Football (Soccer for all americans ;D) Worldcup or Tour de France) pays Money to the competing Teams that easyly eats up every traveling costs. They are basically paid for competing and if they succeed they get additional prize money. That's how it works in professional sports and professional tournaments. So you could basically say, the SC2Con wants the NASL to be a professional tournament and the NASL said "No!". But the interesting question would be how profitable it is, to run a tournament like NASL. Can they effort paying the traveling costs or would paying them ruin the NASL? Have they actual finance issues? They got a lot of commercials at the NASL finals, so you could suppose they are making lots of money. If that's true, then they should concentrate on investing into the tournament, and that would be securing that they've got a strongest lineup, which would include those korean players. Some of this post isn't accurate, in terms of league/events paying teams, just wanted to point that out, but anyway. This thread was predictable that it would go this way. I think there has always been a very vocal faction that hasn't wanted NASL to succeed from the start. That faction will always be against it no matter what. I'm not 100% sure why that die hard faction has existed with this particular event, it is unlike any others that are out there. I have always found that strange, especially when other events have had similar, and worse issues which have quickly been forgotten and forgive yet it is impossible to think NASL can improve or are trying to. With that said, I don't understand some of the arguments. For one, it isn't a 3 month commitment where you are playing at 4AM everyday. You play once a week. If you told me, "hey you have to wake up at 4AM, play a video game, and after 3 months you might be able to travel to a cool foreign country and compete for 40k..." Um.. yeah I'm fine with that. This isn't some major sport. I find it hard to believe that these players, already fighting for limited prize money, would complain about some inconveniences. I can understand an NBA player saying, "No I'm not waking up at 4AM." But seems to be sacrifices are going to be part of being associated with an industry trying to grow with limited resources. It almost comes off sounding spoiled if that is the excuse... heck I wake up at 4AM just to watch games! I run my own business and I have to do work related things I don't want to do. We are a small growing business, hopefully one day we are big enough that I don't have to wake up at 5AM on a Sunday to take care of something. But for now, that is part of the gig. I just know if I'm an SC2 player I try to play in everything I possibly can right now, 2AM, 4AM, 6PM, there are to few opportunities out there to make money and you don't know when that money pool will dry up. If the Koreans choose to not participate, that is fine. Sometimes things just don't work out, but the NASL went above and beyond to provide more than any small tournament(in real world perspective all SC2 events are small) should have to. It almost sounds like the Koreans essentially want an appearance fee, pay us to show up. The stipends and accommodations provided balance off the chance of winning 40k for sure. Think of events like the World Series of Poker, something I think SC2 compares to more than other major sports, and people actually have to PAY to play in that. The last point I want to make is that I think these Korean teams, struggling for sponsors and money, are being VERY short sighted not doing all they can to grow their brand in America. It could open up opportunities for sponsorships, additional revenue streams, growing fan base. These things you can't put a price on, and everyone knows you want to get the American demographic on board ,struggling economy and all there is still tons of disposable income here and to not try to get a slice of that seems irresponsible from a business point of view. excellent post. I was saying the exact same point to tripper, just not as descripitive. NASL and SC2con can eaily mend fences on Season 2, if they work together. I already found a solution for their simple problem, and I am not even a lawyer. A tri-lateral agreement between NASL, SC2con, and Korean Players, will easily solve the problem between NASL and Sc2con. I do hope that NASL reads my thread and proposes this contract to the teams. I bet SC2con would agree to the new terms and conditions. All the new contract would require is the approval of the Korean Players. I am more than sure that they will agree.
And my reply to you would be my reply to him. I like your trilateral idea. I would like it even more if both of you understand how negatively the last season's schedules affected the Koreans. And I would absolutely love it if you guys can look at both sides of the story and not just say anything along the lines of "they should be glad to be able to play for a shot at 40k even at 4am in the morning regardless of when their opponents get to play." By taking that shot at 40k, they throw off their own schedules/regimens which negatively affects their performance at other tournaments. It all balances out and for some, that's just not worth it. Whether they are correct or not is up to debate but you can't say they are wrong for feeling slighted and pulling out when they have nothing keeping them there in the first place.
On August 12 2011 23:04 Cathasaigh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 22:55 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2011 22:46 epij wrote:
That's not the reason why it's unfair. Please read the posts. The reason it was unfair was because of the scheduling and latency issues. That, in conjunction with the travel costs, and I can see how it's not worth it for many Koreans to participate. To use a real sports analogy, imagine if the Tour De France decided that all American riders had to endure x amount of extra sleep deprivation or use a 5 pound weight on their bikes. That wouldn't be very would it? And I'm 100% sure that people would complain.
My point was: NASL has its rules, every competitor knows that rules. If you are not able to attend a tournament because of that rules, you can not expect to have them changed just for you. So the whole "it's unfair debate" is stupid. Alright, and because the Koreans thought the rules were unfair, they pulled out. Don't see what the problem is then. For starters they pulled out at the last second when they had already agreed to the rules.
1.) They pulled out before the season started. They made their complaints known during preparations for season 2. NASL should either have had an alternative/contingency ready or get it done. Neither happened. Both sides are to blame for not getting it done, only NASL is to blame for not having a backup plan.
2.) They never agreed to the rules. Playing for the qualifier only means you pay the entry fee and you don't cheat. That's it. Everything else comes with the contract.
3.) They can't help if NASL decides to go and start filming and doing the season without finishing negotiations. Nor are they wrong for pulling out because their demands weren't met.
Please get your facts straight and read the posts.
On August 12 2011 23:07 mav451 wrote:
The Koreans pulled out at the last-minute because their demands weren't met. Try to remember that NASL wasn't trying to portray anything. Last-minute is last-minute; and to me, it seems the Koreans felt like they could extract additional advantages from pulling these tactics. If anything, both sides lost, so I don't know why anyone is rooting one way or another.
The transparency about this was...refreshing to say the least.
Last minute is last minute? Did you not read the part where they were asking for changes to season 2 or they would pull out in preparation for season 2? Try to remember that they weren't bound to any contract nor did they not warn NASL. NASL took a gamble by hoping that things would work out and didn't bother with a contingency...obviously that wasn't the case. Now Koreans are being bashed for it? From NASL's point of view, the Koreans made no move to budge so they were at an impasse. 2 options. Tell them sorry, maybe next time, and arrange for replacements OR give in. NASL did neither and it bit them in the ass. From the Koreans point of view, we want more compensation for *insert laundry list of reasons* NASL is refusing to comply. We pick our ball and take it home. How anyone can like either of them after this is beyond me but in the end, the responsibility lies with NASL as event organizers. That's what it comes down to. Their event, they need to keep on top of the ball by making sure the players, the paperwork, the scheduling, the casters, etc everything is ready to go with a backup if something fails. If you're a wedding planner but your contract negotiations with your florist goes up in flames a week before the wedding, you're still on the hook for the wedding. Make it happen NASL.
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On August 12 2011 23:19 Perseverance wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 23:12 chatuka wrote:
It's simple math guys.
Teams have to pay 1700 to send their korean players to NASL
teams are given 1000 dollars by NASL. +
Players keep the 1000 dollars if after they reach the round of 16. =
teams can't afford to send their players to NASL
Team cost to go to America for each player=1700 dollars.
team compensation by NASL= 1000
Player compensation by NASL for rd 16=1000
NASl cost to the Korean teams and players at the rd 16=2000
It's simple math.
Just adjust the values and make a new agreement with SC2con, a tri-lateral contract.
Team cost to go to america=1700
Team compensation by NASL=1700
Player compensation by NASL for rd 16=300
NASL cost for Korean teams and Players to the RD of 16=2000
Likely hood that a Korean player gets past the round of 16= very high
what is not to like about this deal.
For something this simple, there must be something we don't know/are overlooking.
You're not factoring in the huge grind and time commitment involved. Not to mention pretty inflexible match scheduling. Also the deposit is a commitment, if for some reason you got off to a horrendous start and/or had personal issues arise you would have little to no motivation/reasoning to play but still somewhat feel forced to, which in turn just produces lackluster games if it does occur.
The koreans / demands wants were perfectly within reason, especially combined with more recent notions that koreans are continuing to elevate their game while foreigners are stagnating and plateauing somewhat.
Most likely the money that would have been gained via the stream/content for people wanting to see the Koreans play would have easily leveled out any travel compensation they requested. Kind of sad really.
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On August 12 2011 23:24 TeeTS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 22:55 FLuE wrote:
Some of this post isn't accurate, in terms of league/events paying teams, just wanted to point that out, but anyway.
OK! Here an accurate example out of proffessional football. The UEFA championsleague pays every contender who qualifies 900k Euros (600k + 50k per group match (with 6 group matches it makes 300k)). Even if you lose every game you have these 900k. In terms of football you should als recommend that every game held in your own stadium generates additional large income (and every competing teams will have 3 those games) but that's not the point. The point is, that every club gets 900k Euros guaranteed. Which should be enough for high standard travelling (in european borders) on three matchdays. On top of that there are lots of prize money.... etc. Great thing for the club. I fully understand that the runners of NASL want to make money. But if you are too greedy things like this happen. The participating teams want some pieces of the cake. You have to invest if you want a higher standard of quality which generates more income. And as a e-sports tournament you have also to invest in the players, because quality players mean quality tournament. And that's the point NASL got wrong, so the quality of the tournament will get worse. I mean who is participating? Some of the Top Europeans like Naniwa, Thorzain, Jinro, Dimaga are out or never were in. I'm not so sure if some players will make the expensive trip to just lose a single bo3 and be out again. So in reality NASL may be becoming a nearly american only tournament. This will not raise the quality of the games.....
I kind of get the comparison wit European football and starcraft, but your point regarding NASL is an incorrect evaluation.
I you don't think that 100K prize pool is enough to draw talent around the world, I think you are not
seeing the financial world clearly.
2000= 1700 to the team And 300 to the player for a 3 day NASL should be more than enough to satisfy NASL obligation to give 2000 at the rd 16. 1700 for teams needing to cover travel expense. And 300 dollars for a little compensation for Players needing to eat and buy gifts. whatever the player earns after the rd of 16 is ICING on the cake. And more exposure for the team, which equals sponsorship dollars.
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There is so much hatred and bias in this thread it makes me sick to my stomach. For a community that prides itself on its internationalism and equality...
you all are disgusting.
Re-read your posts, half of them are blatantly racist. Stop grouping things into "Koreans" vs "us". It's a small number of people who made the decisions on behalf of ALL the players in Korea. You think the Korean players didn't want to go? They're fuckin DYING to go. NASL is nothing but a great opportunity to most of them.
I'm waiting on the other side of the story before I make judgements. Unlike you idiots who throw out and slander just because NASL has strong TL affiliations.
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On August 12 2011 23:30 Agh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 23:19 Perseverance wrote:On August 12 2011 23:12 chatuka wrote:
It's simple math guys.
Teams have to pay 1700 to send their korean players to NASL
teams are given 1000 dollars by NASL. +
Players keep the 1000 dollars if after they reach the round of 16. =
teams can't afford to send their players to NASL
Team cost to go to America for each player=1700 dollars.
team compensation by NASL= 1000
Player compensation by NASL for rd 16=1000
NASl cost to the Korean teams and players at the rd 16=2000
It's simple math.
Just adjust the values and make a new agreement with SC2con, a tri-lateral contract.
Team cost to go to america=1700
Team compensation by NASL=1700
Player compensation by NASL for rd 16=300
NASL cost for Korean teams and Players to the RD of 16=2000
Likely hood that a Korean player gets past the round of 16= very high
what is not to like about this deal.
For something this simple, there must be something we don't know/are overlooking. You're not factoring in the huge grind and time commitment involved. Not to mention pretty inflexible match scheduling. Also the deposit is a commitment, if for some reason you got off to a horrendous start and/or had personal issues arise you would have little to no motivation/reasoning to play but still somewhat feel forced to, which in turn just produces lackluster games if it does occur. The koreans / demands wants were perfectly within reason, especially combined with more recent notions that koreans are continuing to elevate their game while foreigners are stagnating and plateauing somewhat. Most likely the money that would have been gained via the stream/content for people wanting to see the Koreans play would have easily leveled out any travel compensation they requested. Kind of sad really.
Dude, let the Korean player decide the risks and rewards, Not the team. The Team is there to make money off of the players, that really is the bottom line. And because of this bottom line NASl will only give the team 1000 dollars for travel expenses. Instead of the 1700 dollars that each Korean team needs to send their respective players.
What is up with you judging what is right and wrong for the KOrean player. If I was somebody like MVP, I would JUMP at the opportunity to win 40K dollars. 1700 to the team but 38300 to myself.
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I seriously don't understand what's the problem here - NASL decided not to pay for full travel expenses - the Korean teams decided it's not worth it. Do these teams usually get full funding for every MLG they attend?
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On August 12 2011 19:57 tripper688 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 19:52 jmbthirteen wrote:
If you don't want to commit or aren't sure about about committing to something you shouldn't do it. You don't fucking ask a girl to marry you and then break it off because you suddenly decide you don't want to commit. And if you do, its a dick move.
FXOBoss is saying there is more to this. I am eager to hear what it is. I think this is shitty for all sides, NASL, Korean teams, players and fans. This is more like, you start getting interested in a girl, girl asks you to marry, you're not ready so you don't go all in. Qualifiers carry next to no commitment.
I disagree, I think qualifiers carry a very severe degree of commitment, especially considering the fact that when you qualify, you take a spot in the season that many others would have wanted.
I would say boycotting after season 2 started was purely unacceptable. There is no reason why the boycott could not have been issued a month before, week before, etc. which would have given more time for NASL to find replacements.
The reason why they didn't is that they didn't want their negotiator (NASL) to have very much power in their decision, and make them more willing to yield as it puts them against the wall.
If the boycott was issued a month ago, I don't' think NASL would have tried as hard to get Koreans in the league. They made some pretty big concessions...I guess it was just not enough for the Koreans.
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On August 12 2011 23:34 chatuka wrote:
What is up with you judging what is right and wrong for the KOrean player. If I was somebody like MVP, I would JUMP at the opportunity to win 40K dollars. 1700 to the team but 38300 to myself.
funny you say that and then you follow it up with how the koreans are only motivated by money.
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i think i'd rather have this though, its called NASL north american star league, shouldnt it mostly be of north americans and not koreans?
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On August 12 2011 23:32 Keone wrote:
There is so much hatred and bias in this thread it makes me sick to my stomach. For a community that prides itself on its internationalism and equality...
you all are disgusting.
Re-read your posts, half of them are blatantly racist. Stop grouping things into "Koreans" vs "us". It's a small number of people who made the decisions on behalf of ALL the players in Korea. You think the Korean players didn't want to go? They're fuckin DYING to go. NASL is nothing but a great opportunity to most of them.
I'm waiting on the other side of the story before I make judgements. Unlike you idiots who throw out and slander just because NASL has strong TL affiliations.
How is it racist to mention that the other teams are Korean- that's a pretty obvious fact. Based on the information here, how can you possibly say the Korean teams made the right decision by not coming here, dominating NASL, taking the money, and going home? Sure, some other facts could possibly come out later, but here are the facts right now:
1. NASL made them a travel offer, which they accepted- $1K per person.
2. Near the deadline, they decided the offer was no longer enough and demanded more.
3. NASL doubled the original offer- something that they did for no NA or EU team, and
4. They were still rejected and because of the timing there is no way to try to work out any further deal.
Which of those facts are in dispute? The cost of a plane ticket is $1200, and the cost of lodging would also be covered, so it's not as though they would be losing money getting here. It's 100% profit after that, and it seems like this is some dodgy management issue more than it is and player's fault.
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EPT
