On July 29 2011 05:48 Moskau wrote: The sports analogy doesn't make any sense. Starcraft is a game that is not decided by one event at the end of a game. It's normally over minutes before a "GG" is called, obviously a last second buzzer beater warrants excitement because you don't know what is going to happen. This is normally not the case in Starcraft, it happens sometimes but is definitely not the norm.
Also mock enthusiasm is just about the worst thing I could hear in a cast, other than making obvious game knowledge mistakes.
the general view is that, they're both equally exciting but the key difference comes from professionalism. korean casters present the game to the viewers, while the foreign casters watch the game with the viewers.
Is that professionalism or is it just style? There are plenty of professional sports (baseball, tennis, golf) that don't rely as heavily on play by play, and instead provide analysis.
perhaps wrong choice of word, but i'm sure you see the difference yourself comparing professional sports and starcraft. what i mean is that, Jason Lee, i'd say is most "professional" when it comes to commentating compared to everyone else available in foreign scene. and if sc2 were to hit mainstream(likes of ESPN), Jason Lee would be preferred over, say Husky as an exaggeration. (i understand demography has a lot to do with it and i'd assume koreans have a lot more older viewers than westerners for obvious reasons)
Excitement is good, and I would love more than the usual "and there's the gg" that you usually see from English commentators, but you CANNOT force it. It will be awkward, it will be noticeable, it will suck.
I remember people ripping on gretorp for getting to excited at the gg's at the beginning of NASL because it seemed too forced. It is definitely a very delicate balance.
The it casters are doing an excellent job right now. It would detract from the overall experience if casters were to get disproportionally excited over games with foregone conclusions and the like. It's a false representation of what is going on onscreen and I think that it isn't beneficial to new viewers to be treated like idiots.
The last thing we need out there are more HD's and Huskies throwing out fake emotion. I dont care whether a caster has it or not, but I sure hate when they fake it. Let the Koreans be Korean, everyone is not the same and it sure would be boring if they were.
I do agree that english commentators need a bit more energy. Day9 and Husky are the two that probably use the most energy, and Day9 is very analytical as well. But a lot of games have a big engagement where there is a lot of energy, but then the loser of the battle frantically tries to rebuild, but gets crushed in the end. That is not as exciting as say the Nestea vs sC game, where the gg was right then and there. The loser of the big deciding battle may still have a small chance to comeback, but usually it is rare and ends in an anti-climatic "gg".
Sometimes, a manner mule, nuke, or dance is done and the commentators go crazy even though they know the game is already well over. It is slightly BM but it definitely provides a lot of funniness and excitement. Such as,Moletrap Screaming in GSL game But overall, english commentators do need some more energy.
Yea I dislike how a lot of commentators say "expect GG any moment now." Just make up stuff like this guy has to double expand and buy time etc. There are a couple of times when Tastosis have said "I don't think he can come back from this" and then the guy comes back.
Some of my friends have made the argument before that Korean casts are "more exciting" before and that they would prefer watching them over English casts. And I find it to be so irritating. If you don't understand Korean, what's the effing point. It's completely nonsensical. They could be talking about paint drying for all you know. Might as well pipe in sound from a cage full of agitated monkeys if you want "excitement".
In the same vein, saying that commentators calling gg early ruins the excitement is ridiculous. It's not like you're listening to it on the radio. You have eyes and brains (presumably), make your own mind up, don't let the commentators tell you when you can be excited.
Please god, no screaming. Artosis tries it sometimes, and it just irks me. Moletrap tries it, and it flat out scares me.
I want objective commentary. Screaming, obnoxious casters get muted quicker than hell, and I don't like watching a game with no sound.
And ALWAYS, the screaming, excited casters will stop actually commentating and will just be yelling the damn play by play at me that is clearly going on in front of my eyes. I want to hear about their chances of resupplying and their potential income to do so, while the big battle that might decide the game is going on.
And yes, day9 does "excitement" well, but like everyone else, it just get louder, and louder, and I can't stand it anymore and turn it off. Starcraft 2 games shouldn't wake up my freaking roommates.
On July 29 2011 03:48 TedJustice wrote: You can't force excitement.
If they're actually genuinely excited by the GG, that's great. If not, no big deal. I'd rather they not try to force it.
My thoughts exactly.
On July 29 2011 06:16 Honeybadger wrote: Please god, no screaming. Artosis tries it sometimes, and it just irks me. Moletrap tries it, and it flat out scares me.
Oh God, the Nuke-scream is the best thing I've ever heard.
On July 29 2011 06:15 thebigdonkey wrote: They could be talking about paint drying for all you know. Might as well pipe in sound from a cage full of agitated monkeys if you want "excitement".
This made my day. Well said.
The korean commentators are really forced, too. I've watched with my korean friend before, and he said something along the lines of "They're talking about using a supply drop. Why do they need to yell about it?"
Day Nine is the man for exciting casting. At least out of the English commentators. I'm sure he still has to fake the amount of excitement sometimes because he knows how games will play out better than the casual viewer. I think he's even admitted to faking it sometimes.
But still, the games that are actually exciting he is so good at casting. He speaks with a passion and enthusiasm like no other English commentator.
If you want to listen to overenthusiastic fake excitement at the GG, listen to gretorp's first few casts with NASL. it definitely does not add to the experience.
I think the excitement belongs at the exciting points of the game, and that is not always at the GG (the goals, not the buzzer).
On July 29 2011 06:15 thebigdonkey wrote: Some of my friends have made the argument before that Korean casts are "more exciting" before and that they would prefer watching them over English casts. And I find it to be so irritating. If you don't understand Korean, what's the effing point. It's completely nonsensical. They could be talking about paint drying for all you know. Might as well pipe in sound from a cage full of agitated monkeys if you want "excitement".
In the same vein, saying that commentators calling gg early ruins the excitement is ridiculous. It's not like you're listening to it on the radio. You have eyes and brains (presumably), make your own mind up, don't let the commentators tell you when you can be excited.
But it's annoying when you don't agree with the commentators, who are supposed to also be a source of reliable information and guidance.
Anyway, the other points of yours is just opinion so i'll leave it there.
I remember one game where I counted how many times Tasteless pre-GG'd, it was three times, over a duration of about 5 minutes. Instead of making those 5 minutes more exciting by talking about the chances each player had and may be hyping a possible comeback (which would therefore help keep viewers interested), they pre-GG'd more than once, and they were bad calls.
Edit:
Oh, and why are people saying that excitement is bad because it is usually forced? Sure it might be forced. But that doesn't mean it needs to be. It could be not forced, which would be ideal, which is what the OP is talking about.
On July 29 2011 06:18 Oboeman wrote: If you want to listen to overenthusiastic fake excitement at the GG, listen to gretorp's first few casts with NASL.
Listen to moletrap's first few days. That man shrieked out GG every time it happened, even in the most anticlimactic situations.
Thank god he calmed down eventually. Though him and doa was kind of painful. Very different types of people.
I respectfully disagree with the idea that the casters ought to try and make specifically the "gg" moment exciting. It undermines the genuinely exciting parts of a game if you introduce fake excitement. I swear to God atleast 80% of football commentary is the stuff like "Beckham passes to Giggs..to Neville, Neville to Beckham, back to Neville.. Now a long ball up field". No one gets up in football commentators buisness unless theyre being sexist about the female linesman so I dont see why it ought to be so important that you get 100mph enthusiasm every second of the game.
It seems some people think Tastosis is the prime example of calling games too early. Yes it has happened, but 99% of the time they're right. More importantly, when Artosis gets excited you can actually hear how genuine his passion is. Basically listen to any recent NesTea game, the first couple Bomber games in his series against Byun, the Sage games from the GSTL, etc. I think the genuine passion and excitement is better than a consistent, fake style.
I love Day[9] but I would say he is the opposite of Artosis in this sense. It was during MLG Columbus that his style became really grating to me. I don't know if it was just that tourny or what, since I've always loved Day[9]'s casting before that, but it seemed like he got way too over-excited and enthusiastic during incredibly mundane times. I know he finds brilliance in the simplest things and that's part of his charm, but he took it too far too often that tournament.
But it's annoying when you don't agree with the commentators, who are supposed to also be a source of reliable information and guidance.
Anyway, the other points of yours is just opinion so i'll leave it there.
I remember one game where I counted how many times Tasteless pre-GG'd, it was three times, over a duration of about 5 minutes. Instead of making those 5 minutes more exciting by talking about the chances each player had and may be hyping a possible comeback (which would therefore help keep viewers interested), they pre-GG'd more than once, and they were bad calls.
Edit:
Oh, and why are people saying that excitement is bad because it is usually forced? Sure it might be forced. But that doesn't mean it needs to be. It could be not forced, which would be ideal, which is what the OP is talking about.
Unless you're a pro gamer, you're not as in the know as tasteless is. A comeback in the situations when he calls a preemptive GG is exceedingly rare and hard to do.
Hyping possible comebacks is just goofy as hell. What you want is for commentators to force excitement, stream like a korean, and make up things that probably won't happen. That sounds like a recipe for the most annoying caster of all time.
On July 29 2011 06:15 thebigdonkey wrote: Some of my friends have made the argument before that Korean casts are "more exciting" before and that they would prefer watching them over English casts. And I find it to be so irritating. If you don't understand Korean, what's the effing point. It's completely nonsensical. They could be talking about paint drying for all you know. Might as well pipe in sound from a cage full of agitated monkeys if you want "excitement".
In the same vein, saying that commentators calling gg early ruins the excitement is ridiculous. It's not like you're listening to it on the radio. You have eyes and brains (presumably), make your own mind up, don't let the commentators tell you when you can be excited.
But it's annoying when you don't agree with the commentators, who are supposed to also be a source of reliable information and guidance.
Anyway, the other points of yours is just opinion so i'll leave it there.
I remember one game where I counted how many times Tasteless pre-GG'd, it was three times, over a duration of about 5 minutes. Instead of making those 5 minutes more exciting by talking about the chances each player had and may be hyping a possible comeback (which would therefore help keep viewers interested), they pre-GG'd more than once, and they were bad calls.
Edit:
Oh, and why are people saying that excitement is bad because it is usually forced? Sure it might be forced. But that doesn't mean it needs to be. It could be not forced, which would be ideal, which is what the OP is talking about.
I watch UFC pretty frequently and nothing annoys me more than Goldberg and Rogan trying to tell me I should be excited about a guy who is just going to lay on his opponent for 3 rounds to get a decision. It's insulting. That pretty much how I feel about this issue too.
EPT
