EG signs PuMa, responds to criticism - Page 44

On July 26 2011 16:53 Salacious wrote:
What a thread . . . the comments here have inspired me to post for the first time, as for once I seem to have an opposing view to a ton of people on Team Liquid!

Regarding the acquisition of Puma - I don't think EG needs to apologize to anyone for the way this was handled. In fact, being that the player had no financial or legal obligations to TSL whatsoever, what legitimate reason does anyone have (including Mr. Lee) for being upset about this?

If there is blame to go around here, it falls on the shoulders of TSL and the Korean Coach for not contracting or signing the player. And as for disrespecting the team . . . how is this relevant at all?
The last time I checked there is no such thing as being "rude" or "impolite" in the business world. The equation is "if 1+1 = benefit then what the hell are we waiting for?".

Folks right now we're seeing the emergence of a new industry here. And what this boils down to is that the world is not an angelic place where everything is flowers and butterflies. Especially the business world. Make no mistake, this was a business transaction and speaking from a free-market perspective, acquiring a prime asset for little or no cost is an absolute no-brainer. Especially when both the player and the team benefit.

To elaborate even further, look at it from a Starcraft perspective. If you're playing against an opponent and there is an expansion available on your opponents' side of the map, are you going to private message "hey, I noticed that you didn't expand to your third base. Mind if I move in? <Smiley face>". No, you're going to take that third base without saying anything and destroy your opponent as efficiently as possible. This is how business works.

And to top it all off - based on what I've read, EG did a reasonable job at catering to the egos related to this case, especially Mr. Lee. I guess I'm just not connecting to what many posters are upset about regarding this acquisition.

What if EG would have contacted TSL first and with that information coach Lee would have gone to Puma and said "I think we should get you on a contract" never telling him EG was interested in him making his chance go away?

I would be pissed too if a player I trained for months told me he's going to leave for another team.

've heard an awful lot about TSL's troubles and how much Mr. Lee cares for his players, and the soft and cuddly warm things that some TSL players have done... but you know what I haven't heard a lot of from Mr. Lee? Facts about the subject at hand.

On July 26 2011 17:18 hns wrote:
It's somewhat funny, but mostly a shame, how people talk about lacking professialism and being disrespectful on EG's side, but are completely disrespectful to the representative of EG, who even comes to these boards, themselves. You want professionalism and respect? Fucking start with yourself.

On July 26 2011 17:20 StyLeD wrote:


Professionalism starts with EG.

On July 26 2011 17:19 Sylvr wrote:


That's just it, people aren't responding to the actual circumstances of the situation. They're responding to the tone of the situation. Mr. Lee's initial statement read as though it were a given that "Something Bad" was happening. The closest analogy I can think of (I like Analogies) is a guy walks up and says Hi to some woman in a public place and she starts screaming and swinging at him. What conclusion do you think the public is going to jump to? In the end, the guy did nothing wrong, but that doesn't take back the beating that the surrounding crowd may have given him, and even when the actual facts come to light, some people are still going to believe that the guy did something wrong.

Furthermore, the things Mr. Lee decided to pad his statements with sure do seem the type that you might give to win sympathy from a group that you are trying to convince of something... I've heard an awful lot about TSL's troubles and how much Mr. Lee cares for his players, and the soft and cuddly warm things that some TSL players have done... but you know what I haven't heard a lot of from Mr. Lee? Facts about the subject at hand. He really has not said much actually regarding PuMa and EG- and some of the stuff he has said was downright misinformation. I say that Mr. Lee cares more for how hie story sounds than what it actually says.

On July 26 2011 09:04 EGalex wrote:
In the weeks following NASL, PuMa and EG continued our discussion. As of last Wednesday, there was very serious mutual interest in having PuMa on EG;serious enough that he brought the issue up to Mr. Lee, the coach of TSL, as EG and PuMa had agreed would happen.

On July 26 2011 09:04 EGalex wrote:
For EG, growing our Korean fan base and developing mutually respectful relationships with Korean teams are both very important long-term goals. We've put so much work and planning time into being able to recruit a top-tier Korean player. Why would we want to invite such controversy and sign our first Korean player under these kinds of public circumstances?

On July 26 2011 09:04 EGalex wrote:
In fact, over the past month alone, we have been in talks with several Korean teams (read: after speaking with management first, not players first) regarding potential recruitment and collaboration. These managers know who they are, and they know that we have approached their teams honorably and respectfully. Now, the obvious question you're all asking after reading this is, "Then, why didn't you do that with Mr. Lee?"

In the case of TSL, the only reason we did not speak with Mr. Lee first is that it was established between EG and PuMa, in our very first conversation, that - if he eventually decided he was interested in joining EG - he felt that the best first step (read: *first* step) to take would be for him to personally bring the issue to his coach.

On July 26 2011 12:21 Blueblox wrote:
I think EG's management handled the sittuation wrong and then when asked how they fucked up so badly EG responded "We didn't it wasn't our fault it was (insert scapegoat here) fault!"

On July 26 2011 09:04 EGalex wrote:
And overall, we think that it's a good thing that international teams like EG are increasing the overall amount of financial support available to Korean players. After all, as a result of this, PuMa will instantly become one of the highest paid SC2 players in Korea, and he will be able to travel to any foreign tournament he wants to. Many of you have criticized us for allegedly being the big, bad corporate machine. But one thing you can't argue with is that we support our players very, very well. And it's very easy, from the outside, to say something like, "Oh yeah, well, it's easy to support players well when you just throw money at them." But that kind of position is short-sighted.

On July 26 2011 09:04 EGalex wrote:
We're not just sitting on a pile of money - it didn't just appear out of nowhere. We had to work very, very hard to secure the sponsors that we have, and it's not fair to criticize us for being good at getting sponsors, especially when (unlike other teams) we pass most of our sponsorship money on to our players. For the record, I'd like all of you to know that we put a higher percentage of our gross revenue back into player support than almost any other team in the world. So, for those of you who think I'm typing this from my yacht - I'm not. I'm actually typing this from my one-bedroom apartment.

On July 26 2011 09:04 EGalex wrote:
Going back to the situation at hand, many of you have argued that our approach here was "aggressive" and "objectionable" because we did not consult TSL management first, but rather, went to the player first. But I would like to again point out that PuMa and EG's mutual decision to have PuMa speak with Mr. Lee first was not motivated by a desire to sneak around Mr. Lee, but rather, it was simply agreed to be the best first step (again, read: *first* step) communication-wise. Just because our management did not speak with TSL's as the very first step in this process, does not mean that we ignored, subverted or disregarded TSL.

On July 26 2011 09:04 EGalex wrote:
In EG's defense, I want to state that, given the facts shared above, I really don't think that EG is guilty of any massive transgression here. I think the situation has been blown out of proportion to a ridiculous extent. However, I absolutely acknowledge that this situation ultimately boils down to the issue of cross-cultural respect. I truly do believe that EG's approach in this situation was appropriate, but I'm not so stubborn and belligerent as to sit here and claim that EG is 0% at fault. At the same time, though, the community's majority reaction was to place TSL as being 0% at fault, and that's not fair or accurate either.

On July 26 2011 09:04 EGalex wrote:
Ultimately, I feel that TSL's public actions in this situation were not appropriate. I think that TSL's reaction, and their decision to go to the press so fast, was very knee-jerk.

July 26 2011 11:26 StUfF wrote:
Lee gets told out of no where that EG has approached Puma and Puma has agreed after "weeks" of negotiation that he would join EG. Puma's mind was clearly made by that point. It's a joke to "include" Lee at that point.

On July 26 2011 09:04 EGalex wrote:
I want to state, again (and, I'm sorry for belaboring the point, but I'm going to do it), that EG and PuMa both felt that PuMa speaking with Mr. Lee would be the best *first* second step in this process, with the next logical step being EG speaking with Mr. Lee directly.

EG is willing to retroactively negotiate terms for PuMa joining EG which will satisfy Mr. Lee on a business level. It's obviously not ideal to have negotiations retroactively, but I think that EG is pretty clearly not the party that jumped the gun here.

And, to be fair, I think that our willingness to negotiate a settlement with Mr. Lee (which, again, didn't just appear out of nowhere once this went public - negotiating with him was part of the process all along, from our perspective), when PuMa wasn't even contracted, is a pretty ethical, culturally considerate gesture.

On July 26 2011 16:43 Pai Mei wrote:
Two polls.

On July 26 2011 17:37 domane wrote:

An ethical, culturally considerate gesture would have been to inform TSL of your intentions before presenting PuMa with an offer.

On July 26 2011 14:29 tyCe wrote:

Just because a young 20-something year old progamer doesn't have his moral values in the right places, doesn't mean that EG should capitalise on that and use him as a pawn to leverage their position against TSL. If EG cared about the moral good of the sport, they would use the proper procedure. Obviously, EG cares more about themselves than any moral responsibilities...

On July 26 2011 17:39 ExPresident wrote:


2nd poll option is terrible imo. You state it like your biased and that Puma, a 19 year old adult, isn't able to make a decision on his own or that he believes is in his best interest. Its funny that so many people pull an argument like this yet will be the first to say "I'm very mature for my age" or when they are younger than 18 they say "treat me like an adult".

Its silly that people don't think Puma is able to make decisions for himself and that his coach must be present. Only reason his coach would need to be present is so that he can make or influence Puma's decision that would be in the best interest of his job/sponsor/financial stability.