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Salacious
United States12 Posts
If Korean's are "culturally shocked" that a free agent player was courted without explicit permission then it's time for Korea to join the rest of the Western World in regards to sports. No hand-holding -- business is business. If you want to keep a player on your team then make it worth their while and sign them. | ||
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Tactical_Tim
United States20 Posts
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enecateReAP
United Kingdom378 Posts
On July 26 2011 17:52 domane wrote: I believe the act of negotiating with a 19-year-old is fine. I just see a problem with the order at which it was done. I'm surprised at the results. Dont be suprised, a lot of people on this forum are INSANELY stubborn, they just argue against reason for attention. | ||
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Wrongspeedy
United States1655 Posts
On July 26 2011 09:12 awu25 wrote: Why didn't you speak to the coach first? It's like a manager going to Kobe and asking if he would be interested in joining a team. You can't expect the player to have the balls and say "I want to join another team" Yeah if the Lakers were dumb enough to have Kobe not under contract. Bad analogy. Glad they apologized even though it seems like the whole controversy was sparked by Lee reacting to Puma talking to him initially. | ||
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Korlinni
125 Posts
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Executor1
1353 Posts
On July 26 2011 18:00 Corrupted wrote: The notion that this has anything to do with loyalty or family is laughable. The teams are saving tons of money by doing it this way...but there are consequences to it as TSL has found out multiple times now. I have no sympathy for teams losing players when they are not paying them what they are worth. I will always support the players in these situations. Puma comes out on top in this and that means it is a positive result. Saving lots of money? alot of these teams have either no sponsors or very limited small sponsors. They are probably barely getting by as is, im sure most of them would be way more than happy to pay their players if they had the sponsors for it, but the simple fact is most of them dont, TSL was one of the only teams able to pay some of its top players. Also im sure most of them would have more money for stuff like salaries if they didnt have to house their players and feed them , something most american teams dont have to do (obviously the money fromm that isnt enough to pay all your players but its a start). Trust me none of these coaches or managers are getting rich and just not paying their players, they are barely getting by themselves. You dont think if TSL could have offered puma something similair they wouldnt? One of the reasons fruitdealer and trickster left (i beleive) is because sponsorship dollars dropped and the team couldnt afford to pay Trickster and fruitdealer what they were paying them. These coaches care about their players , they arent trying to screw them and keep all the money for themselves. | ||
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volen
Germany28 Posts
Thanks any way.... Puma Fighting !! | ||
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Executor1
1353 Posts
On July 26 2011 18:10 enecateReAP wrote: Dont be suprised, a lot of people on this forum are INSANELY stubborn, they just argue against reason for attention. Its rather unfortunate, it honestly seems like anyone who is an EG / Idra fanboy is automatically defending EG / chewing up alex garfields words like they are gospel. Others not so interested in EG / indifferent seem to be for EG contacting TSL before Puma. I know someones going to be like "Im not an eg fan and i think what they did is fine" secretely you know you are a closet EG idra fan though  | ||
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moyk
Canada38 Posts
On July 26 2011 09:04 EGalex wrote: I have already apologized to him in private for my accusatory tone and approach to him on the show. Also, what people failed to comprehend (or those that didn't tune into the episode) the topic AG brought up wasn't entirely directed at Milkis (who just happened to be there when AG decided to vent his PR frustrations) but rather at TL members posting things of such nature with no accountability to journalistic standards which is a legitimate problem especially since TL is unique in the fact that it's largely a community driven site. Now, although we all get that Milkis isn't at fault for simply translating an article for us, because he is one of the more known and reliable translator/posters on this site, when he does indeed post something, a lot of us, myself included, view it as him reporting news from Korea even if he is simply translating something for us. But like djWHEAT said, this is a legitimate issue, and one that's clearly an elephant in the room worthy of its own discussion(s) and debate(s). Lastly, I really don't understand some of the heat that WHEAT's been receiving (no pun intended). Initially, he couldn't just cut off AG because he had to listen to see where he was going with his final statements and to be fair, he interrupted both of them of once so I don't see where all the whole he's biased in favor of EG's coming from. Could he have moderated the dialogue exchange a bit better between the two? Probably. But is it his fault for AG talking much more than Milkis? No. Milkis isn't a debater/talker/whatever and wasn't there to do such so it's not surprising that AG talked over him and commanded the mic for a good portion of the last few minutes of the episode (as well as throughout its entirety). | ||
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phanto
Sweden708 Posts
that was the error. | ||
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Phayt
Canada346 Posts
If this post is true(and I rather suspect it is), the biggest issue in my eyes is Lee immediately running to the press to smear EG after receiving news he didn't like. THAT, as far as I'm concerned, is the largest issue of being "unprofessional" in this entire situation. None of this drama would even have come to be if not for that. But whatever, I guess, haters gonna hate. | ||
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enecateReAP
United Kingdom378 Posts
On July 26 2011 18:16 phanto wrote: you approached the player and not their coach/team leader. even if asked "on a general level", that is wrong. that was the error. I thought that players had the rights to their future...DAMN, thankyou for teaching me common sense. | ||
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IVN
534 Posts
In my mind, if you dont contract a player and dont pay him salary it really isnt an employer <---> employee relationship. Its simply a case of "providing a means for exercising an ambitious hobby", nothing more. And in that case, you really shouldnt bitch around, if someone comes and contracts your "free and unpaid agent", without asking you first. Why should they ask you? Its not like you are paying for something and not getting it afterwards. This is a clear case of "you get what you pay for". As someone who has attend business school, I see nothing wrong with what EG's done. in fact, if I was managing EG, I would have done the same thing. | ||
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WTFZerg
United States704 Posts
Competition applies both in the booth and on the political field. Americans are deeply versed in the art of brinkmanship and at the end of the day, what is in their best interest is what they will work towards. | ||
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dwillow
Czech Republic88 Posts
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Jankisa
Croatia369 Posts
Puma was away from home, in a strange country, for the first time in his life, he was not contracted and generally loved his EX team but wasn't really happy whit the relationship. EG saw the uprising yet underapricieted player, and went for it. This is where it get's to the part of the story where we have to trust EG, and that is they have not wanted to have anything to do with Puma until he talked to the EX team. Puma spoke to his EX team, but prob didn't make his intentions or the terms of agreement very clear becouse it's so darn hard to end a relationship. Coach Lee got pissed off at EG for a) puting Puma in the tough spot (becouse he still love's him) b) not being transparent enough for coming to them and at least having a word , man to man It's tough for both sides, I get it, I just fail to be simpathetic for EG's side of the story, specially after the reaction from then, that kinda reminded me of SOTG / INC situation that also left a bad taste in my mouth. I liked EG, I liked them less after SOTG/INC situation, don't really like them at all right now. | ||
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Oktyabr
Singapore2234 Posts
On July 26 2011 18:09 Salacious wrote: Honestly, I don't think it was even necessary for Alex to make this statement. Nothing illegal occurred. If Korean's are "culturally shocked" that a free agent player was courted without explicit permission then it's time for Korea to join the rest of the Western World in regards to sports. No hand-holding -- business is business. If you want to keep a player on your team then make it worth their while and sign them. He happens to be doing business in another country. And he probably intends to make more deals there in the future. I think it would be prudent for any business man to first be less ignorant of that respective country's culture if he wants any chance of succeeding at all. TSL did invest a effort and money into PuMa, even without the contract. They gave him access to 5 Code S players (before Trickster and FD left) as training partners, allowed him to represent TSL in the first few seasons of GSTL, and housed/fed him for a couple of months. There is a ton of trust from Coach Lee involved here. | ||
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svarog
46 Posts
On July 26 2011 09:04 EGalex wrote: Hello Everyone, ... EG first spoke with PuMa at NASL, prior to the round of 8 matches. TSL has said that we claimed that PuMa approached us first - I don't know where this is coming from, but I want to make it very clear that we approached him. When I introduced myself to him, I did not throw a contract in his face, I did not pressure him, and I did not attempt to use any aggressive recruitment methods. I simply let him know (via a translator) that EG was looking to support a Korean player, and asked him if he had any interest on a general level. He asked me some questions, and I answered them. We also made it very clear to each other that neither of us would be not be able to proceed with this recruitment unless TSL's coach was okay with it. In the weeks following NASL, PuMa and EG continued our discussion. As of last Wednesday, there was very serious mutual interest in having PuMa on EG; serious enough that he brought the issue up to Mr. Lee, the coach of TSL, as EG and PuMa had agreed would happen. ... So you say in your post that you have already been in contact with other Korean team's management, you even further explain this that in all this cases you spoke to management directly not to the players first, and yet you still went for PuMa directly at the NASL. Then you say you had an agreement with Puma that neither of you would be able to proceed with the recruitment unless TSL's coach was okay with it. From the reaction of coach Lee it is obvious that he is not okay with it. And after the whole community outcry it is obvious that many of us are also not ok with it. Why did you sign the contract then even inspite of all this? This are the things that are biting EG in their PR ass. You should try to be consistent, especially when you're doing damage control statements. Coach Lee's acceptance was either a deal braker or it wasn't, you just cannot have it both ways. I feel that you and EG in general are always trying to push this kind of arguments, and frankly in the whole wall of text in which you repeat certain points five times, it is easy to miss this flawed logic. | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
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cYaN
Norway3322 Posts
That was all I needed to know, don't care about the rest. I hate how drama comes in 3-5 waves now on every subject. Vague rumors or so, a clarification on rumors by one side, response by other side, clarification again, blah blah blah. QQ | ||
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