• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:02
CEST 23:02
KST 06:02
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025)14Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, GuMiho, Classic, Cure6Code S RO8 Preview: Classic, Reynor, Maru, GuMiho4Code S RO8 Preview: ByuN, Rogue, herO, Cure5[ASL19] Ro4 Preview: Storied Rivals7
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 12-18): Clem sweeps WardiTV May3Code S Season 2 (2025) - Qualifier Results212025 GSL Season 2 (Qualifiers)14Code S Season 1 - Classic & GuMiho advance to RO4 (2025)4[BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET7
StarCraft 2
General
#SECRET #OCCULT #+2349069684394 #FOR #MONEY #RITUA Power Rank: October 2018 herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025) Code S Season 2 (2025) - Qualifier Results Code S RO8 Preview: Classic, Reynor, Maru, GuMiho
Tourneys
DreamHack Dallas 2025 announced (May 23-25) SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series [GSL 2025] Code S Season 1 - RO4 and Grand Finals WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void Mutation # 472 Dead Heat Mutation # 471 Delivery Guaranteed
Brood War
General
BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ who is JiriKara /Cipisek/ from CZ Pros React To: Emotional Finalist in Best vs Light Where is effort ? BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL19] Semifinal B Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player Creating a full chart of Zerg builds
Other Games
General Games
What do you want from future RTS games? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Grand Theft Auto VI Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Men's Fashion Thread UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Books] Wool by Hugh Howey
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
Narcissists In Gaming: Why T…
TrAiDoS
Poker
Nebuchad
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
WombaT’s Old BW Terran Theme …
WombaT
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9621 users

compLexity & MVP Partner - DRG & Genius - coL.MVP - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
633 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 32 Next All
carloselcoco
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2302 Posts
July 23 2011 02:10 GMT
#181
ColDRG! :D
ColGenius! :D

So sad Destiny screwed things up...
http://www.twitch.tv/carloselcoco/b/296431601 <------Suscribe! Casts in Spanish :) |||| http://www.twitch.tv/carloselcoco/b/300285215<----- CSL: Before Sunday! Episode 3!
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18820 Posts
July 23 2011 02:11 GMT
#182
On July 23 2011 11:03 Waxangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 11:00 farvacola wrote:
On July 23 2011 10:35 Waxangel wrote:
DRG FIGHTING!!!!!!

Oh, here's a semi article I had written up before I stopped trying to make it any good:


Did the EG's pursuit of TSL's Puma close the gates for many Koreans? As much as EG's Alex Garfield espoused the the need for Korea to open itself up to the international way of ESPORTS business, he may very well have become a detriment to his own cause.

Following the the news of Puma's enticement by a foreign team, Korea's two major SC II media sites PlayXP and ThisIsGame wasted no time publishing editorials calling for the hasty implementation of protectionary measures from the Starcraft II Conference (S2Con) of Korea. In fact, ThisIsGame reported that GomTV and S2Con had already felt the need the create protectionary measures before the EG-TSL ordeal went down. If that were not enough, S2Con's own columnist also chipped in with his opinion, brutally criticizing his own organization for their failure to protect the interests of Korean teams and players in this regard.

That's not to say that we won't see more deals like that between MVP and Complexity or oGs and SK. In those deals, the original Korean team retains effective 'ownership' of the player while the foreign company is merely subsidizing his overseas activities.

But the line seems to be drawn at Korean players making complete moves to foreign teams, and it may soon become a very difficult one to cross.

Sources:
Starcraft II Conference: http://s2con.com/xe/column/8373
ThisIsGame: http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=710199&board=&category=13439&subcategory=&page=1&best=&searchmode=&search=&orderby=&token=
PlayXP: http://www.playxp.com/sc2/news/view.php?article_id=3209931
Weapon of Choice: http://www.onemoregame.tv/index.php/shows/weapon-of-choice.html



I think a great deal of this comes down to mere speculation, I expect with a sudden jump to stricter contracts a great deal of players are going to take a long, careful look at their options when it comes to playing Starcraft 2 professionally. This could probably go one of three ways.

1. The players and teams agree, perhaps totally or on a vast majority of terms when it comes to the adoption of new, tighter contracts. (this seems rather unlikely, considering that teams and players rarely get along so swimmingly, as evidenced by the genesis of KESPA in Sc1.)

2. The players decide to consolidate and agree to meet with team ownership and decide on rules that take into account the interests of both sides, as opposed to this strange view that team management is somehow the authority on all player considerations. (This seems likely, especially considering the already established players association headed by Junwi)

3. High profile players, ones who have the ability to make money anywhere, will scoff at tighter restrictions, potentially stagnant salaries and lockdows and seek out teams willing to shell out bigger bucks, more travel, etc. (Who knows? I could definitely see players with explosive recent developments of talent, see the entire HoSeo team haha, decide to strike out on their own so to speak.)

In the end, I really think it does the scene a disservice to be so explicitly negative about everything, AG acted as an American business should, the Koreans are reacting in an appropriate manner, and in the end these conflicts will boil down to mere growing pains as the Sc2 scene truly becomes global.


True, I may be being too negative. But I do need to point out that Korean progamers have proven to be one the weakest, poorly organized groups in the history of labor :o

As in, they're poor teenagers who haven't had much time to pursue interests outside of gaming. They're pretty much tailor-made to be exploited by people with money.


Sounds like the perfect impetus for the coming about of a player association with some teeth. It's not as though there are a shortage of former BW players who bring with them at the very least knowledge of, if not experience with, manipulative business interests and overbearing team management.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Al Bundy
Profile Joined April 2010
7257 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-23 02:12:05
July 23 2011 02:11 GMT
#183
On July 23 2011 11:06 DuckS wrote:
I feel like i'm the only one annoyed over news like this. I'm all for KR + the world, don't get me wrong, but I feel like this is just turning into the Yankees and just bringing in strong players to make a team.. It lacks that home-grown, built-themselves-up kind of feel.

Maybe i'm just a freak.

No, what you said makes sense. I too am all for "home-grown" teams, I mean in every country there are a lot of skilled & motivated players, all they need is someone to give them an opportunity.
o choro é livre
analyze
Profile Joined April 2011
United States155 Posts
July 23 2011 02:11 GMT
#184
I am confused.. Is IamMVP on this team or is that a completely separate entity?
Puph
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada635 Posts
July 23 2011 02:12 GMT
#185
On July 23 2011 10:35 Muffinman53 wrote:
Shit just got serious.

Like 2v2's in a ffa D: And what he said! This is excellent news and I cannot wait to see who's going to the big K! Right?
Intel Dual Core 4400 @ ~2.00GHz / 2046MB RAM / 256 MB ATI Radeon x1300PRO
lazyfeet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States468 Posts
July 23 2011 02:12 GMT
#186
On July 23 2011 11:11 analyze wrote:
I am confused.. Is IamMVP on this team or is that a completely separate entity?

You mean IMMvp. He is on team IM but his name is mvp.
LUCK is What Happens When Preparation Meets Opportunity.......
Falcor
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada894 Posts
July 23 2011 02:12 GMT
#187
On July 23 2011 11:11 analyze wrote:
I am confused.. Is IamMVP on this team or is that a completely separate entity?


IMmvp. is on team Incredible miracles(IM)..his name is mvp so no
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
July 23 2011 02:13 GMT
#188
On July 23 2011 11:07 Fionn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 11:04 unoriginalname wrote:
On July 23 2011 11:01 BionicSC wrote:
Fnatic/IM next? =)


Fnatic recently got Rain, they have their token Korean. Mousesports still need theirs, so perhaps IM-Mouz?


IM and Startale have bunch of sponsors. Don't think they need a partnership.

HoSeo, though, now THAT's a team where a foreign team should want to partner with. Whatever that coach is doing, he has a team full of amazing players with great potential.

Yeah, I hope HoSeo gets something going.

I think CCM and ZeNEX might possibly make a deal. Several months ago there was an announcement having to do with xiaOt going over to Korea and staying with ZeNEX. Dunno if it went through, though. I do know that xiaOt has said that once he gets to Korea and if he brings back results, he'll try to set something up with one of the Korean teams. Then again, this was back when xiaOt was on Nirvana, and I don't know if CCM's going for the same thing.
setzer
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3284 Posts
July 23 2011 02:14 GMT
#189
At least Complexity didn't terminate their current SC2 squad like a certain other e-sports organization.
nihoh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia978 Posts
July 23 2011 02:14 GMT
#190
These partnerships seem so meaningless to me.
Dont look at the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
July 23 2011 02:14 GMT
#191
On July 23 2011 11:03 Waxangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 11:00 farvacola wrote:
On July 23 2011 10:35 Waxangel wrote:
DRG FIGHTING!!!!!!

Oh, here's a semi article I had written up before I stopped trying to make it any good:


Did the EG's pursuit of TSL's Puma close the gates for many Koreans? As much as EG's Alex Garfield espoused the the need for Korea to open itself up to the international way of ESPORTS business, he may very well have become a detriment to his own cause.

Following the the news of Puma's enticement by a foreign team, Korea's two major SC II media sites PlayXP and ThisIsGame wasted no time publishing editorials calling for the hasty implementation of protectionary measures from the Starcraft II Conference (S2Con) of Korea. In fact, ThisIsGame reported that GomTV and S2Con had already felt the need the create protectionary measures before the EG-TSL ordeal went down. If that were not enough, S2Con's own columnist also chipped in with his opinion, brutally criticizing his own organization for their failure to protect the interests of Korean teams and players in this regard.

That's not to say that we won't see more deals like that between MVP and Complexity or oGs and SK. In those deals, the original Korean team retains effective 'ownership' of the player while the foreign company is merely subsidizing his overseas activities.

But the line seems to be drawn at Korean players making complete moves to foreign teams, and it may soon become a very difficult one to cross.

Sources:
Starcraft II Conference: http://s2con.com/xe/column/8373
ThisIsGame: http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=710199&board=&category=13439&subcategory=&page=1&best=&searchmode=&search=&orderby=&token=
PlayXP: http://www.playxp.com/sc2/news/view.php?article_id=3209931
Weapon of Choice: http://www.onemoregame.tv/index.php/shows/weapon-of-choice.html



I think a great deal of this comes down to mere speculation, I expect with a sudden jump to stricter contracts a great deal of players are going to take a long, careful look at their options when it comes to playing Starcraft 2 professionally. This could probably go one of three ways.

1. The players and teams agree, perhaps totally or on a vast majority of terms when it comes to the adoption of new, tighter contracts. (this seems rather unlikely, considering that teams and players rarely get along so swimmingly, as evidenced by the genesis of KESPA in Sc1.)

2. The players decide to consolidate and agree to meet with team ownership and decide on rules that take into account the interests of both sides, as opposed to this strange view that team management is somehow the authority on all player considerations. (This seems likely, especially considering the already established players association headed by Junwi)

3. High profile players, ones who have the ability to make money anywhere, will scoff at tighter restrictions, potentially stagnant salaries and lockdows and seek out teams willing to shell out bigger bucks, more travel, etc. (Who knows? I could definitely see players with explosive recent developments of talent, see the entire HoSeo team haha, decide to strike out on their own so to speak.)

In the end, I really think it does the scene a disservice to be so explicitly negative about everything, AG acted as an American business should, the Koreans are reacting in an appropriate manner, and in the end these conflicts will boil down to mere growing pains as the Sc2 scene truly becomes global.


True, I may be being too negative. But I do need to point out that Korean progamers have proven to be one the weakest, poorly organized groups in the history of labor :o

As in, they're poor teenagers who haven't had much time to pursue interests outside of gaming. They're pretty much tailor-made to be exploited by people with money.


Hehe, you ironically vindicate the approach that EG's Alex was saying they were taking. The players are, likely, worth more than the team system would generally allow for in a Korean set. This is going to be a huge cause of tension, as there will just be more money outside of Korea.
NotSorry
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States6722 Posts
July 23 2011 02:15 GMT
#192
Hopefully we see some of the coL team take up the offer to come to Korea and live/practice in the MVP house.
We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. - Orwell
Sandro
Profile Joined April 2011
897 Posts
July 23 2011 02:16 GMT
#193
On July 23 2011 11:14 nihoh wrote:
These partnerships seem so meaningless to me.

Haha yeah seeing a bunch of skilled players from Korea coming to western tournaments means absolutely nothing.
zoLo
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States5896 Posts
July 23 2011 02:16 GMT
#194
On July 23 2011 11:14 nihoh wrote:
These partnerships seem so meaningless to me.


How is it meaningless? They have benefits such as financial backing and getting better practice partners.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
July 23 2011 02:16 GMT
#195
And, I think we're all forgetting the Prime clan & World Elite (WE) partnership in all of this. Not that I know the details, but they've had a pretty long one.
kKagari
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia84 Posts
July 23 2011 02:16 GMT
#196
As much as i like Violet and Keen, MVP really should rename themselves to DRG. Complexity Genius sounds way cool though!
Khasidon
Profile Joined April 2011
Denmark29 Posts
July 23 2011 02:16 GMT
#197
On July 23 2011 11:03 Sandro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 11:01 Otolia wrote:
Oh that's great, but I'm sorry to inform you that it won't make the NA scene any better.

Typical European bashing on America for no reason.



I strongly belive that all the sc2 scenes will benefit from more interaction between the players on a long term basis.

As players will be faceing off even more than now, against top tier Korean players and vice versa. Im so looking forward to this evelution of the proscene. So many great games to come!
Terran
Blasphemi
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom980 Posts
July 23 2011 02:17 GMT
#198
On July 23 2011 11:07 Fionn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 11:04 unoriginalname wrote:
On July 23 2011 11:01 BionicSC wrote:
Fnatic/IM next? =)


Fnatic recently got Rain, they have their token Korean. Mousesports still need theirs, so perhaps IM-Mouz?


IM and Startale have bunch of sponsors. Don't think they need a partnership.

HoSeo, though, now THAT's a team where a foreign team should want to partner with. Whatever that coach is doing, he has a team full of amazing players with great potential.

Hoseo have gone from a joke to koreas most promising team.
wklbishop
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1286 Posts
July 23 2011 02:17 GMT
#199
On July 23 2011 11:16 Taf the Ghost wrote:
And, I think we're all forgetting the Prime clan & World Elite (WE) partnership in all of this. Not that I know the details, but they've had a pretty long one.


Unfortunately not many people know much about the Chinese scene. Some people don't even consider the Chinese scene part of the foreigner scene oddly enough...
Gameplay > Personality
Sina92
Profile Joined January 2011
Sweden1303 Posts
July 23 2011 02:18 GMT
#200
Am I the only one who doesn't care too much about these joint ventures? I prefer to keep track of the players individually and follow them.
My penis is 15 inches long, I'm a Harvard professor and look better than Brad Pitt and Jake Gyllenhaal combined.
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 32 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL: GosuLeague
18:00
Round of 16 / Round 2
ZZZero.O140
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
JuggernautJason215
Livibee 142
ProTech58
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 16628
ZZZero.O 140
Dota 2
Gorgc8219
Dendi1381
NeuroSwarm54
febbydoto17
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m3542
Stewie2K468
Foxcn351
flusha228
FunKaTv 73
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0203
Mew2King116
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu589
Khaldor148
Other Games
tarik_tv16783
summit1g8288
Grubby4152
FrodaN1636
Beastyqt736
ZombieGrub97
Trikslyr77
ptr_tv14
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 72
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Eskiya23 11
• FirePhoenix7
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2648
• WagamamaTV405
• Ler96
League of Legends
• Doublelift1937
• TFBlade1311
Other Games
• imaqtpie1709
• Shiphtur272
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2h 58m
Replay Cast
12h 58m
Replay Cast
1d 2h
Replay Cast
1d 12h
Road to EWC
1d 17h
Replay Cast
2 days
SC Evo League
2 days
Road to EWC
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
BeSt vs Soulkey
Road to EWC
3 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
4 days
SOOP
5 days
NightMare vs Wayne
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
GSL Code S
6 days
Cure vs Zoun
Solar vs Creator
The PondCast
6 days
Online Event
6 days
Clem vs ShoWTimE
herO vs MaxPax
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-05-16
2025 GSL S1
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
ASL Season 19
YSL S1
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
China & Korea Top Challenge
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Heroes 10 EU
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025
ESL Pro League S21

Upcoming

Rose Open S1
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
2025 GSL S2
DreamHack Dallas 2025
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.