• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:51
CEST 19:51
KST 02:51
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach4[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double1Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3BSL Season 2313Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon105
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Grand Finals ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Bot on ladder [ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague an AI researcher's take on the ladder bot
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro8 Day 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 2 [ASL22] Ro8 Day 1
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread All you football fans (soccer)!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Violent-Cooperative Play and…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6532 users

compLexity & MVP Partner - DRG & Genius - coL.MVP - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
633 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 32 Next All
carloselcoco
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2302 Posts
July 23 2011 02:10 GMT
#181
ColDRG! :D
ColGenius! :D

So sad Destiny screwed things up...
http://www.twitch.tv/carloselcoco/b/296431601 <------Suscribe! Casts in Spanish :) |||| http://www.twitch.tv/carloselcoco/b/300285215<----- CSL: Before Sunday! Episode 3!
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18869 Posts
July 23 2011 02:11 GMT
#182
On July 23 2011 11:03 Waxangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 11:00 farvacola wrote:
On July 23 2011 10:35 Waxangel wrote:
DRG FIGHTING!!!!!!

Oh, here's a semi article I had written up before I stopped trying to make it any good:


Did the EG's pursuit of TSL's Puma close the gates for many Koreans? As much as EG's Alex Garfield espoused the the need for Korea to open itself up to the international way of ESPORTS business, he may very well have become a detriment to his own cause.

Following the the news of Puma's enticement by a foreign team, Korea's two major SC II media sites PlayXP and ThisIsGame wasted no time publishing editorials calling for the hasty implementation of protectionary measures from the Starcraft II Conference (S2Con) of Korea. In fact, ThisIsGame reported that GomTV and S2Con had already felt the need the create protectionary measures before the EG-TSL ordeal went down. If that were not enough, S2Con's own columnist also chipped in with his opinion, brutally criticizing his own organization for their failure to protect the interests of Korean teams and players in this regard.

That's not to say that we won't see more deals like that between MVP and Complexity or oGs and SK. In those deals, the original Korean team retains effective 'ownership' of the player while the foreign company is merely subsidizing his overseas activities.

But the line seems to be drawn at Korean players making complete moves to foreign teams, and it may soon become a very difficult one to cross.

Sources:
Starcraft II Conference: http://s2con.com/xe/column/8373
ThisIsGame: http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=710199&board=&category=13439&subcategory=&page=1&best=&searchmode=&search=&orderby=&token=
PlayXP: http://www.playxp.com/sc2/news/view.php?article_id=3209931
Weapon of Choice: http://www.onemoregame.tv/index.php/shows/weapon-of-choice.html



I think a great deal of this comes down to mere speculation, I expect with a sudden jump to stricter contracts a great deal of players are going to take a long, careful look at their options when it comes to playing Starcraft 2 professionally. This could probably go one of three ways.

1. The players and teams agree, perhaps totally or on a vast majority of terms when it comes to the adoption of new, tighter contracts. (this seems rather unlikely, considering that teams and players rarely get along so swimmingly, as evidenced by the genesis of KESPA in Sc1.)

2. The players decide to consolidate and agree to meet with team ownership and decide on rules that take into account the interests of both sides, as opposed to this strange view that team management is somehow the authority on all player considerations. (This seems likely, especially considering the already established players association headed by Junwi)

3. High profile players, ones who have the ability to make money anywhere, will scoff at tighter restrictions, potentially stagnant salaries and lockdows and seek out teams willing to shell out bigger bucks, more travel, etc. (Who knows? I could definitely see players with explosive recent developments of talent, see the entire HoSeo team haha, decide to strike out on their own so to speak.)

In the end, I really think it does the scene a disservice to be so explicitly negative about everything, AG acted as an American business should, the Koreans are reacting in an appropriate manner, and in the end these conflicts will boil down to mere growing pains as the Sc2 scene truly becomes global.


True, I may be being too negative. But I do need to point out that Korean progamers have proven to be one the weakest, poorly organized groups in the history of labor :o

As in, they're poor teenagers who haven't had much time to pursue interests outside of gaming. They're pretty much tailor-made to be exploited by people with money.


Sounds like the perfect impetus for the coming about of a player association with some teeth. It's not as though there are a shortage of former BW players who bring with them at the very least knowledge of, if not experience with, manipulative business interests and overbearing team management.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Al Bundy
Profile Joined April 2010
7257 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-23 02:12:05
July 23 2011 02:11 GMT
#183
On July 23 2011 11:06 DuckS wrote:
I feel like i'm the only one annoyed over news like this. I'm all for KR + the world, don't get me wrong, but I feel like this is just turning into the Yankees and just bringing in strong players to make a team.. It lacks that home-grown, built-themselves-up kind of feel.

Maybe i'm just a freak.

No, what you said makes sense. I too am all for "home-grown" teams, I mean in every country there are a lot of skilled & motivated players, all they need is someone to give them an opportunity.
o choro é livre
analyze
Profile Joined April 2011
United States155 Posts
July 23 2011 02:11 GMT
#184
I am confused.. Is IamMVP on this team or is that a completely separate entity?
Puph
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada635 Posts
July 23 2011 02:12 GMT
#185
On July 23 2011 10:35 Muffinman53 wrote:
Shit just got serious.

Like 2v2's in a ffa D: And what he said! This is excellent news and I cannot wait to see who's going to the big K! Right?
Intel Dual Core 4400 @ ~2.00GHz / 2046MB RAM / 256 MB ATI Radeon x1300PRO
lazyfeet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States468 Posts
July 23 2011 02:12 GMT
#186
On July 23 2011 11:11 analyze wrote:
I am confused.. Is IamMVP on this team or is that a completely separate entity?

You mean IMMvp. He is on team IM but his name is mvp.
LUCK is What Happens When Preparation Meets Opportunity.......
Falcor
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada894 Posts
July 23 2011 02:12 GMT
#187
On July 23 2011 11:11 analyze wrote:
I am confused.. Is IamMVP on this team or is that a completely separate entity?


IMmvp. is on team Incredible miracles(IM)..his name is mvp so no
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
July 23 2011 02:13 GMT
#188
On July 23 2011 11:07 Fionn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 11:04 unoriginalname wrote:
On July 23 2011 11:01 BionicSC wrote:
Fnatic/IM next? =)


Fnatic recently got Rain, they have their token Korean. Mousesports still need theirs, so perhaps IM-Mouz?


IM and Startale have bunch of sponsors. Don't think they need a partnership.

HoSeo, though, now THAT's a team where a foreign team should want to partner with. Whatever that coach is doing, he has a team full of amazing players with great potential.

Yeah, I hope HoSeo gets something going.

I think CCM and ZeNEX might possibly make a deal. Several months ago there was an announcement having to do with xiaOt going over to Korea and staying with ZeNEX. Dunno if it went through, though. I do know that xiaOt has said that once he gets to Korea and if he brings back results, he'll try to set something up with one of the Korean teams. Then again, this was back when xiaOt was on Nirvana, and I don't know if CCM's going for the same thing.
setzer
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3284 Posts
July 23 2011 02:14 GMT
#189
At least Complexity didn't terminate their current SC2 squad like a certain other e-sports organization.
nihoh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia978 Posts
July 23 2011 02:14 GMT
#190
These partnerships seem so meaningless to me.
Dont look at the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
July 23 2011 02:14 GMT
#191
On July 23 2011 11:03 Waxangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 11:00 farvacola wrote:
On July 23 2011 10:35 Waxangel wrote:
DRG FIGHTING!!!!!!

Oh, here's a semi article I had written up before I stopped trying to make it any good:


Did the EG's pursuit of TSL's Puma close the gates for many Koreans? As much as EG's Alex Garfield espoused the the need for Korea to open itself up to the international way of ESPORTS business, he may very well have become a detriment to his own cause.

Following the the news of Puma's enticement by a foreign team, Korea's two major SC II media sites PlayXP and ThisIsGame wasted no time publishing editorials calling for the hasty implementation of protectionary measures from the Starcraft II Conference (S2Con) of Korea. In fact, ThisIsGame reported that GomTV and S2Con had already felt the need the create protectionary measures before the EG-TSL ordeal went down. If that were not enough, S2Con's own columnist also chipped in with his opinion, brutally criticizing his own organization for their failure to protect the interests of Korean teams and players in this regard.

That's not to say that we won't see more deals like that between MVP and Complexity or oGs and SK. In those deals, the original Korean team retains effective 'ownership' of the player while the foreign company is merely subsidizing his overseas activities.

But the line seems to be drawn at Korean players making complete moves to foreign teams, and it may soon become a very difficult one to cross.

Sources:
Starcraft II Conference: http://s2con.com/xe/column/8373
ThisIsGame: http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=710199&board=&category=13439&subcategory=&page=1&best=&searchmode=&search=&orderby=&token=
PlayXP: http://www.playxp.com/sc2/news/view.php?article_id=3209931
Weapon of Choice: http://www.onemoregame.tv/index.php/shows/weapon-of-choice.html



I think a great deal of this comes down to mere speculation, I expect with a sudden jump to stricter contracts a great deal of players are going to take a long, careful look at their options when it comes to playing Starcraft 2 professionally. This could probably go one of three ways.

1. The players and teams agree, perhaps totally or on a vast majority of terms when it comes to the adoption of new, tighter contracts. (this seems rather unlikely, considering that teams and players rarely get along so swimmingly, as evidenced by the genesis of KESPA in Sc1.)

2. The players decide to consolidate and agree to meet with team ownership and decide on rules that take into account the interests of both sides, as opposed to this strange view that team management is somehow the authority on all player considerations. (This seems likely, especially considering the already established players association headed by Junwi)

3. High profile players, ones who have the ability to make money anywhere, will scoff at tighter restrictions, potentially stagnant salaries and lockdows and seek out teams willing to shell out bigger bucks, more travel, etc. (Who knows? I could definitely see players with explosive recent developments of talent, see the entire HoSeo team haha, decide to strike out on their own so to speak.)

In the end, I really think it does the scene a disservice to be so explicitly negative about everything, AG acted as an American business should, the Koreans are reacting in an appropriate manner, and in the end these conflicts will boil down to mere growing pains as the Sc2 scene truly becomes global.


True, I may be being too negative. But I do need to point out that Korean progamers have proven to be one the weakest, poorly organized groups in the history of labor :o

As in, they're poor teenagers who haven't had much time to pursue interests outside of gaming. They're pretty much tailor-made to be exploited by people with money.


Hehe, you ironically vindicate the approach that EG's Alex was saying they were taking. The players are, likely, worth more than the team system would generally allow for in a Korean set. This is going to be a huge cause of tension, as there will just be more money outside of Korea.
NotSorry
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States6722 Posts
July 23 2011 02:15 GMT
#192
Hopefully we see some of the coL team take up the offer to come to Korea and live/practice in the MVP house.
We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. - Orwell
Sandro
Profile Joined April 2011
897 Posts
July 23 2011 02:16 GMT
#193
On July 23 2011 11:14 nihoh wrote:
These partnerships seem so meaningless to me.

Haha yeah seeing a bunch of skilled players from Korea coming to western tournaments means absolutely nothing.
zoLo
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States5896 Posts
July 23 2011 02:16 GMT
#194
On July 23 2011 11:14 nihoh wrote:
These partnerships seem so meaningless to me.


How is it meaningless? They have benefits such as financial backing and getting better practice partners.
Taf the Ghost
Profile Joined December 2010
United States11751 Posts
July 23 2011 02:16 GMT
#195
And, I think we're all forgetting the Prime clan & World Elite (WE) partnership in all of this. Not that I know the details, but they've had a pretty long one.
kKagari
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia84 Posts
July 23 2011 02:16 GMT
#196
As much as i like Violet and Keen, MVP really should rename themselves to DRG. Complexity Genius sounds way cool though!
Khasidon
Profile Joined April 2011
Denmark29 Posts
July 23 2011 02:16 GMT
#197
On July 23 2011 11:03 Sandro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 11:01 Otolia wrote:
Oh that's great, but I'm sorry to inform you that it won't make the NA scene any better.

Typical European bashing on America for no reason.



I strongly belive that all the sc2 scenes will benefit from more interaction between the players on a long term basis.

As players will be faceing off even more than now, against top tier Korean players and vice versa. Im so looking forward to this evelution of the proscene. So many great games to come!
Terran
Blasphemi
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom980 Posts
July 23 2011 02:17 GMT
#198
On July 23 2011 11:07 Fionn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 11:04 unoriginalname wrote:
On July 23 2011 11:01 BionicSC wrote:
Fnatic/IM next? =)


Fnatic recently got Rain, they have their token Korean. Mousesports still need theirs, so perhaps IM-Mouz?


IM and Startale have bunch of sponsors. Don't think they need a partnership.

HoSeo, though, now THAT's a team where a foreign team should want to partner with. Whatever that coach is doing, he has a team full of amazing players with great potential.

Hoseo have gone from a joke to koreas most promising team.
wklbishop
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1286 Posts
July 23 2011 02:17 GMT
#199
On July 23 2011 11:16 Taf the Ghost wrote:
And, I think we're all forgetting the Prime clan & World Elite (WE) partnership in all of this. Not that I know the details, but they've had a pretty long one.


Unfortunately not many people know much about the Chinese scene. Some people don't even consider the Chinese scene part of the foreigner scene oddly enough...
Gameplay > Personality
Sina92
Profile Joined January 2011
Sweden1303 Posts
July 23 2011 02:18 GMT
#200
Am I the only one who doesn't care too much about these joint ventures? I prefer to keep track of the players individually and follow them.
My penis is 15 inches long, I'm a Harvard professor and look better than Brad Pitt and Jake Gyllenhaal combined.
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 32 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
16:00
#65
RotterdaM679
TKL 343
TaKeTV 228
IndyStarCraft 190
BRAT_OK 108
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 679
TKL 343
IndyStarCraft 190
ProTech148
MaxPax 143
BRAT_OK 108
UpATreeSC 86
MindelVK 22
EmSc Tv 17
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 909
EffOrt 561
Mini 529
ggaemo 177
firebathero 150
White-Ra 59
Barracks 57
910 50
Hyun 50
Shinee 45
[ Show more ]
Shine 35
Bale 26
Killer 25
Trap 22
ToSsGirL 18
soO 15
yabsab 12
Dota 2
qojqva4036
Counter-Strike
Fnx 755
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby4455
crisheroes1545
Liquid`Hasu1044
Other Games
Liquid`RaSZi2860
singsing1670
B2W.Neo902
ceh9634
Beastyqt607
ArmadaUGS141
C9.Mang0116
Dewaltoss46
Trikslyr44
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream486
Other Games
BasetradeTV173
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 17
EmSc2Tv 17
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• mYiSmile116
• Reevou 8
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix19
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2494
• TFBlade824
Other Games
• Shiphtur266
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
16h 9m
Afreeca Starleague
16h 9m
Leta vs Soulkey
PiGosaur Cup
1d 6h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 17h
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Online Event
4 days
FEL
4 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
BSL Open Qualifier
6 days
BSL Open Qualifier
6 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-27
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.