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On July 23 2011 12:06 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 11:02 JiYan wrote:
=\ honestly a lot of these comments are justified, but virtually identical to the reactions we had here at tl This is what I've been saying the whole goddamned time. All these people that have been saying "oh, this will affect the relationship between the Korean community and the international community" while citing what people post on Korean sites is so fucking stupid because like 9/10 people everywhere are going to just run around like headless chickens spewing shit and blood everywhere because they overreact and love to sensationalize everything. Everything is going to be fine, fuck.
This single incident has triggered KeSPA 2 in motion:
On July 23 2011 10:35 Waxangel wrote:Oh, here's a semi article I had written up before I stopped trying to make it any good: D id the EG's pursuit of TSL's Puma close the gates for many Koreans? As much as EG's Alex Garfield espoused the the need for Korea to open itself up to the international way of ESPORTS business, he may very well have become a detriment to his own cause.
Following the the news of Puma's enticement by a foreign team, Korea's two major SC II media sites PlayXP and ThisIsGame wasted no time publishing editorials calling for the hasty implementation of protectionary measures from the Starcraft II Conference (S2Con) of Korea. In fact, ThisIsGame reported that GomTV and S2Con had already felt the need the create protectionary measures before the EG-TSL ordeal went down. If that were not enough, S2Con's own columnist also chipped in with his opinion, brutally criticizing his own organization for their failure to protect the interests of Korean teams and players in this regard. That's not to say that we won't see more deals like that between MVP and Complexity or oGs and SK. In those deals, the original Korean team retains effective 'ownership' of the player while the foreign company is merely subsidizing his overseas activities. But the line seems to be drawn at Korean players making complete moves to foreign teams, and it may soon become a very difficult one to cross. Sources: Starcraft II Conference: http://s2con.com/xe/column/8373ThisIsGame: http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=710199&board=&category=13439&subcategory=&page=1&best=&searchmode=&search=&orderby=&token=PlayXP: http://www.playxp.com/sc2/news/view.php?article_id=3209931Weapon of Choice: http://www.onemoregame.tv/index.php/shows/weapon-of-choice.html
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There's no reason to think that kespa 2 will be the same as kespa 1, though. The korean sc2 community is so much more open than the bw one is that it would be difficult for such a relatively small group of corporations to gain control over the entirety of the scene. People should wait and see how it pans out.
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On July 23 2011 11:09 eggs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 11:02 JiYan wrote:
=\ honestly a lot of these comments are justified, but virtually identical to the reactions we had here at tl not really. the TL thread didn't have nearly as much PuMa bashing. which is ironic, because the TL thread said the Korean way is all about the team/family/community but their netizens are blaming PuMa and sympathizing with Coach Lee, while the TL thread was bashing EG as an organization and having sympathy for TSL as a team.
I think most people on TL understand he was a 19 year old kid offered money from a foreign team when he currently wasn't making any and put in a difficult situation.
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On July 23 2011 11:00 EchoZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 10:49 taLbuk wrote:On July 23 2011 10:41 Angelbelow wrote:
What is the reaction now that EG has made a statement? A lot of those comments are just "he was stolen" but thats not the case at all. I don't think EG has made a statement or press release, playXP broke the news too early with the fact of puma being signed wrong. would be interesting to see their response to what AG said on WoC but it would be kind of hard for someone to tell them what happened without bias etc. All i remember from WoC was the bashing Milkis recieved, AG talking in circles and a biased moderator.
Agreed. The conversation went in many places and AG contradicting himself. And Wheat bringing it to other areas.
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On July 23 2011 12:36 Duravi wrote:
I think most people on TL understand he was a 19 year old kid offered money from a foreign team when he currently wasn't making any and put in a difficult situation.
That about sums up my feelings on Puma's part in this whole situation pretty well.
I think that's why there's a lot more hate being dished out EG's way. Oh, and the Idra quote made me lol.
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On July 23 2011 12:03 hyptonic wrote:
Seems here we blame EG and there they blame Puma
That is quite the LOL's. EG gets an amazing player, Puma gets a good deal. Both are to blame apparently.
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On July 23 2011 11:00 EchoZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 10:49 taLbuk wrote:On July 23 2011 10:41 Angelbelow wrote:
What is the reaction now that EG has made a statement? A lot of those comments are just "he was stolen" but thats not the case at all. I don't think EG has made a statement or press release, playXP broke the news too early with the fact of puma being signed wrong. would be interesting to see their response to what AG said on WoC but it would be kind of hard for someone to tell them what happened without bias etc. All i remember from WoC was the bashing Milkis recieved, AG talking in circles and a biased moderator.
All I remember is wondering wtf Milkis was doing on WoC while having absolutely no relevance to the subject and really not offering any insight into it.
Alex had a valid point about the lines between journalism and translating being blurred. The problem that Alex tried to point out is that when someone translates a shit-storm like this then it just adds fuel to the flames. Sure Milkis was just translating, but by not trying to be more than a translator, he caused all of the foreign community to see Mr Lee whining and jumping on the bandwagon without knowing the full story. Once the story is out, a lot of people see it and don't care to dig through the rubble for the truth afterwards. IMO Alex wasn't trying to blame Milkis directly but was rather trying to point out a flaw in the way that we receive news.
I'm not sure of Milkis exact involvement in the community is (ie. I heard he translates for some live events, presumably paid, but not paid for translating on TL?) but I think TL is big enough to pay a translator like him (even part time) that would have access to TL's contacts to get a counter statement in cases like this and that they shouldn't be outsourcing the job to the community anymore. TL even put it on the Community News list which was a terrible decision so early.
We live in a time where we want our news ASAP but because of that we end up hearing a lot of partial truths. Just the day before Slasher was reporting on Lo3 about how XlorD and ClouD had left MYM even though Mondragon had already clarified the situation and the site that reported it was jumping to early conclusions.
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holy crap....hopefully the translation made it harsher than what they actually meant....but very understandable
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On July 23 2011 12:32 PHC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 12:06 koreasilver wrote:On July 23 2011 11:02 JiYan wrote:
=\ honestly a lot of these comments are justified, but virtually identical to the reactions we had here at tl This is what I've been saying the whole goddamned time. All these people that have been saying "oh, this will affect the relationship between the Korean community and the international community" while citing what people post on Korean sites is so fucking stupid because like 9/10 people everywhere are going to just run around like headless chickens spewing shit and blood everywhere because they overreact and love to sensationalize everything. Everything is going to be fine, fuck. This single incident has triggered KeSPA 2 in motion: Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 10:35 Waxangel wrote:Oh, here's a semi article I had written up before I stopped trying to make it any good: D id the EG's pursuit of TSL's Puma close the gates for many Koreans? As much as EG's Alex Garfield espoused the the need for Korea to open itself up to the international way of ESPORTS business, he may very well have become a detriment to his own cause.
Following the the news of Puma's enticement by a foreign team, Korea's two major SC II media sites PlayXP and ThisIsGame wasted no time publishing editorials calling for the hasty implementation of protectionary measures from the Starcraft II Conference (S2Con) of Korea. In fact, ThisIsGame reported that GomTV and S2Con had already felt the need the create protectionary measures before the EG-TSL ordeal went down. If that were not enough, S2Con's own columnist also chipped in with his opinion, brutally criticizing his own organization for their failure to protect the interests of Korean teams and players in this regard. That's not to say that we won't see more deals like that between MVP and Complexity or oGs and SK. In those deals, the original Korean team retains effective 'ownership' of the player while the foreign company is merely subsidizing his overseas activities. But the line seems to be drawn at Korean players making complete moves to foreign teams, and it may soon become a very difficult one to cross. Sources: Starcraft II Conference: http://s2con.com/xe/column/8373ThisIsGame: http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=710199&board=&category=13439&subcategory=&page=1&best=&searchmode=&search=&orderby=&token=PlayXP: http://www.playxp.com/sc2/news/view.php?article_id=3209931Weapon of Choice: http://www.onemoregame.tv/index.php/shows/weapon-of-choice.html
ladies and gentleman we have a fortune teller here, he sees all!
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On July 23 2011 08:58 Retgery wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 08:54 UTL_Unlimited wrote:
Myth_Zero: ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ 역시 이드라가 속해있는팀
(lololol What I expected from a team with Idra in it)
That one mad me mad.
It's funny how they are trying to bring this back to the players on the team.
EG Management != EG Players
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On July 23 2011 14:07 dangm24 wrote:
holy crap....hopefully the translation made it harsher than what they actually meant....but very understandable
I think it's ridiculous. I feel like a lot of them feel spurned because a Korean doesn't want to play in Korea anymore, he wants to move out into the big wide foreigner world. I feel a lot of them are upset because of the perceived (true or not) dominance of the Korean scene.
Unfortunately, it seems like there's more money to be made playing in a large number of foreign tourneys than there is to be made in participating in the GSL once a month.
Frankly, I'm glad PuMa made the switch, I'm glad EG talked to him, I'm glad that all of these events have transpired. I feel like they can't do anything except increase competition for players, which, in turn, will raise up player salaries and playing conditions to the point that they can actually sign contracts and work in a good environment, rather than being under a moral obligation to play for a team because they provide them a place to eat and sleep and play.
We shouldn't be exchanging our players for just room and board. We should be paying them actual salaries, and I feel like it's not too much to hope that this starts a domino effect.
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On July 23 2011 12:52 stangstang wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 12:03 hyptonic wrote:
Seems here we blame EG and there they blame Puma That is quite the LOL's. EG gets an amazing player, Puma gets a good deal. Both are to blame apparently.
Aside from money i dont see how people think this is a good deal for puma. If money is all you think about i guess thats fine.
What about player development? How will puma continue to develop as a player without support from a coach and players who speak his language?
As far as i understand from what AG said , puma will be staying in korea, and they will be setting up some sort of system to support his growth as a player.
I just cant see anything being as good as what he was getting at TSL (a team house and a really good coach) with the EG deal. Sure he will get more money now, but he will lose the structure that made him great in the first place. Its actually a real shame to see, i dont expect to see great things out of puma after maybe 2-3 months , he will have fallen behind other top korean players simply because he will not have the environment to nurture his skills.
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On July 23 2011 14:15 reneg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 14:07 dangm24 wrote:
holy crap....hopefully the translation made it harsher than what they actually meant....but very understandable I think it's ridiculous. I feel like a lot of them feel spurned because a Korean doesn't want to play in Korea anymore, he wants to move out into the big wide foreigner world. I feel a lot of them are upset because of the perceived (true or not) dominance of the Korean scene. Unfortunately, it seems like there's more money to be made playing in a large number of foreign tourneys than there is to be made in participating in the GSL once a month. Frankly, I'm glad PuMa made the switch, I'm glad EG talked to him, I'm glad that all of these events have transpired. I feel like they can't do anything except increase competition for players, which, in turn, will raise up player salaries and playing conditions to the point that they can actually sign contracts and work in a good environment, rather than being under a moral obligation to play for a team because they provide them a place to eat and sleep and play. We shouldn't be exchanging our players for just room and board. We should be paying them actual salaries, and I feel like it's not too much to hope that this starts a domino effect.
Did you listen to weapon of choice? AG stated that puma will be staying in korea and they will somehow be providing him with an environment to continue his growth as a player. (supposedly, read above to see what i think about that)
If he really wanted to move to the states for whatever reason and practice over there (maybe like rain who moved to NA cause his dad lives in new york and he wanted a change of scenery/ to experience the foreign scene) but as far as i know puma doesnt have any plans like that.
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Interesting to see the different cultural norms - what is offensive here is not there and vice versa. But it's strange that they apparently have no understanding of how job recruitment works in most of the western world.
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I still don't understand why people think this may be amazing for Puma. Beyond the money, assuming he signs, I can't see him improving, expect maybe for his tvz.
EG was disrespectful imo, and they need to acknowledge that, even if there was no legal reason to stop them.
Idra comment was hilarious.
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I was listening to weapon of choice and they had EGs manager talking about it and such. And I think that EG should have contacted the coach first. Or puma shoudl have talked to his coach before word got out that EG was gonna sign him.
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On July 23 2011 14:19 Executor1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 14:15 reneg wrote:On July 23 2011 14:07 dangm24 wrote:
holy crap....hopefully the translation made it harsher than what they actually meant....but very understandable I think it's ridiculous. I feel like a lot of them feel spurned because a Korean doesn't want to play in Korea anymore, he wants to move out into the big wide foreigner world. I feel a lot of them are upset because of the perceived (true or not) dominance of the Korean scene. Unfortunately, it seems like there's more money to be made playing in a large number of foreign tourneys than there is to be made in participating in the GSL once a month. Frankly, I'm glad PuMa made the switch, I'm glad EG talked to him, I'm glad that all of these events have transpired. I feel like they can't do anything except increase competition for players, which, in turn, will raise up player salaries and playing conditions to the point that they can actually sign contracts and work in a good environment, rather than being under a moral obligation to play for a team because they provide them a place to eat and sleep and play. We shouldn't be exchanging our players for just room and board. We should be paying them actual salaries, and I feel like it's not too much to hope that this starts a domino effect. Did you listen to weapon of choice? AG stated that puma will be staying in korea and they will somehow be providing him with an environment to continue his growth as a player. (supposedly, read above to see what i think about that) If he really wanted to move to the states for whatever reason and practice over there (maybe like rain who moved to NA cause his dad lives in new york and he wanted a change of scenery/ to experience the foreign scene) but as far as i know puma doesnt have any plans like that.
I did listen to weapon of choice, i thought he said that it was still up in the air as to what exactly was going on, if he was staying in Korea, or if he was coming to the States, and nothing was definite at this time?
I definitely could have misheard, i listened to it the next day while at work, so i wasn't paying the closest attention to it. And if i am wrong, did they say anything in regards to where he might be staying in Korea then?
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5003 Posts
On July 23 2011 14:07 dangm24 wrote:
holy crap....hopefully the translation made it harsher than what they actually meant....but very understandable
the translation makes them softer actually. If the translations on the OP were more literal and some of them if he was a bit more accurate with that... well it'd be harsher.
lol i butchered this sentence :[
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lol at korean knowing less info than us about subject. Puma leaving without telling coac?
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I'm shocked at the amount of overreaction and venom in the Korean responses as well as some of the responses on this site. The fact that EG obliged Puma's request to talk to his coach himself, they're made the bad guys. It's standard practice to approach the individual about an employment opportunity, it's beyond idiotic to expect people to go to the employer first when you don't even know that they'll show interest. I just don't understand why everyone was so frustrated and up-in-arms over this.
Also, before anyone replies to this about a cultural difference where teams see each other as family, don't forget that Coach Lee was the one that threw Puma under a bus and started this entire shitstorm in the first place. He did this before EG had him on their roster. Seriously? Where's all this honor and family?
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EPT
