Korean Reactions to Puma's Situation

On July 23 2011 08:54 UTL_Unlimited wrote:


Myth_Zero: ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ 역시 이드라가 속해있는팀
(lololol What I expected from a team with Idra in it)

On July 23 2011 08:59 sereniity wrote:
Thanks for the translating, always interesting to see how the koreans react to these kind of things! I still don't get why people are mad at EG, PuMa personally told EG not to talk to his coach but rather let him talk to him HIMSELF, he didn't do so until days later and now EG are taking the shit, kind of ridicolous if you ask me...

On July 23 2011 09:00 JoeSchmoe wrote:


Puma did not tell AG not to talk to the coach, he just said he'll talk to the coach. stop twisting the facts. anyways but this is all coming from AG, I guess we'll never hear Puma's side of the story.

On July 23 2011 09:01 EnderCraft wrote:
It's pretty funny how some relate this back to idrA.

맹독장군 : 뭐지
그러면
EG Puma 가 되는건가열? ㅋㅋㅋㅋ
(lololol What I expected from a team with Idra in it)

On July 23 2011 08:58 Retgery wrote:

That one mad me mad.

On July 23 2011 09:01 sereniity wrote:


I'm pretty sure they both agreed to let PuMa talk to his coach first, it's EG btw.

On July 23 2011 09:01 sereniity wrote:


I'm pretty sure they both agreed to let PuMa talk to his coach first, it's EG btw.

On July 23 2011 09:05 SKC wrote:


He means Alex Garfield.

On July 23 2011 09:06 Lexxes wrote:
Seems like they are not flaming as hard as the foreign scene..


thx alot for translating.

On July 23 2011 09:20 SxYSpAz wrote:
lol. so overall bad. can't say that EG deserves any less. After hearing their side, i understand a little more, but they should have just talked to the coach. they knew what they were doing.

also impressed by koreans emoticons. damn, they iz pros.

Also, translate our reaction to playxp :D haha

On July 23 2011 09:10 PhiliBiRD wrote:


What do you mean? Foreigners are happy that Koreans are joining our teams. Koreans are not.

And from what I read, Koreans are flaming this more than we are.

On July 23 2011 09:20 SxYSpAz wrote:
lol. so overall bad. can't say that EG deserves any less. After hearing their side, i understand a little more, but they should have just talked to the coach. they knew what they were doing.

also impressed by koreans emoticons. damn, they iz pros.

Also, translate our reaction to playxp :D haha

On July 23 2011 09:22 Full.tilt wrote:


Wow, where have you been? This is pretty funny unless you're just trolling of course. This is regarding the specific situation of EG's approach to Puma, don't compare it to teams that have actually agreed trades amicably.

On July 23 2011 09:08 unoriginalname wrote:
Oh no, you've translated Korean opinions to English concerning the matter. Alex may come out and accuse you of biased journalism that is threatening EG as you have not asked for a statement from them!

But in all honesty, I see the Korean opinions aren't too dissimilar to the ones expressed on Team Liquid, I think most of the foreign scene seem to think that PuMa is a better player than what the Koreans believe though.

On July 23 2011 09:24 Demonace34 wrote:


Well considering this isn't a [NEWS] thread and just a thread with translations, I doubt he cares one bit. Just goes to show that Koreans and Foreigners have the same amount of neitzens that are dramatic over news. The only difference is that they seem to care about Coach Lee's feelings more and TL seems to want to bash EG more.

On July 23 2011 09:23 windsupernova wrote:


They mostly bashed Puma for leaving so unprofessionally.

I even think they flamed less that the Tl thread did.(but of course, I doubt we are getting the ruder comments anyways.)

Thanks for the translation. Hopefully you contacted EG before

On July 23 2011 09:22 Serpico wrote:

I doubt they knew how much talking to the manager mattered.

On July 23 2011 09:35 SxYSpAz wrote:

They definitely knew. The difference between talking to a manager and talking to the actual player is huge. They talk to the manager, and the whole team discusses it.

It would force puma to think of how his actions affected others before he thought about the benefits. Also killer and clide were apparently approached similarly (and turned the offers down), and if Puma was to hear that before making up his mind, he would realize how selfish his choice was.

I'm not completely against Puma, since i understand that he wants to be making more money and gaining more respect, but no one can deny it's a selfish decision at a dire time for TSL. I also had no clue how much of themselves the players and coach put into TSL until i read his interview, but my bet is that Puma knew exactly how much support he'd received.

On July 23 2011 09:42 LeakyBucket wrote:
3. What the heck was Coach Lee doing not having players on a contract in the first place!? I object to this the most because relying on trust with players seems absurd. I'm not trying to say the players are all backstabbers but it's just common business knowledge to have contracts to avoid sticky situations. I think this would have been easily avoided by having contracts in the first place.

On July 23 2011 09:39 nihlon wrote:


But that's not really what they said on weapons of choice though.

On July 23 2011 09:48 Fall.182 wrote:
i think its mostly EG's fault. im pissed just hearing about when i dont even care about TSL.

EG should write a deep apologizing letter or some sort of explanation to everyone

(yeah Puma needs to be cussed out. Even a dog that's been abandoned cries for it's owner when they aprt. I hope that Puma gets crossed and comes back to Korea. I think that Coach Lee made the right decision. Such trash needs to be gotten rid of).

On July 23 2011 09:52 tuho12345 wrote:


Damn this's pretty harsh lol. But anyway I think we need a public release information from both EG and Puma. Either confirm or apology.

On July 23 2011 09:54 j3i wrote:


it's harsh but it's the exact response that puma should have expected.

Myth_Zero: ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ 역시 이드라가 속해있는팀
(lololol What I expected from a team with Idra in it)

바이즈런: 다좋은데 이드라 싸이코패스 맨탈만 배우지말아라
(I'm fine with it. Just don't learn/[listen to] Idra's psychopath metal)

On July 23 2011 09:51 XiGua wrote:
Looks like the same reactions that we got from TL. Netizens are all the same, huh?

Let's just drop this in my opinion. It has been dragged on for too long. Puma got a great offer from EG who decided not to speak to Coach Lee. Puma informed Lee on the last day and then left. TSL is one man short and EG has just gained a korean Terran with alot of potential. END.

Let's just hope that Puma will do well, I don't want him to fail and regret everything.

On July 23 2011 09:42 LeakyBucket wrote:
1. EG went straight to the player without contacting the team. I find this to be devious and not really professional for a major business.

On July 23 2011 10:01 Fall.182 wrote:


it shouldn't a "lets just drop this" because if this matter is not solved correctly, same problems such as these will pop up in the future. This is mostly EG's fault and they should apologize.

On July 23 2011 08:58 Retgery wrote:

That one mad me mad.

On July 23 2011 10:11 Koillette wrote:
I don't see anything that was wrong here. Puma got offered a better "job" and he took it.
Simple like you work at a fastfood place. Somebody else offer you a better job. You give you two week(or whatever long) notice that you are leaving. Like they told him to talk to he's coach. Then he went for it.


You can under coach lees point of view. He train this player, they were one of his best players for what i have heared. But simple coach lee could have offer pump a contract also.

But I don't know all the detail of the issue. Just my 2cents

On July 23 2011 10:07 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
Not to use a broken, tired out meme, but: Haters gonna' hate.

The people who disagree with EG's actions have their minds made up by and large, and nothing can be done to change it. True, many people still haven't taken the time to educate themselves on all of the facts, but the people still railing against it simply fall back onto a cultural argument or something along those lines.

Quite frankly, Korea might hold the largest concentration and amount of top-tier players in the world, but the competition outside is budding and growing constantly. Maybe Korea should think about adapting to the world outside, rather than expecting everybody else to cater to their ways.

On July 23 2011 10:14 XiGua wrote:

Except it's not at a fastfood place...

On July 23 2011 10:16 Koillette wrote:



it is a comparison.

On July 23 2011 10:25 Itsmedudeman wrote:
I was honestly surprised that people on TL didn't blame it on puma as much as EG. In the end, it was puma's decision to take the money over friends/loyalty. Not saying he shouldn't have, fuck I'd probably have taken the offer, but I can't help but people are trying too much to say puma's poor innocent mind was taken advantage of when he's a grown adult.

On July 23 2011 10:21 MonkSEA wrote:


it's a terrible comparison.

I agree with talking to Lee about it, but Lee wouldn't be able to fund PuMa, Clide and Killer on contracts on better terms then EG could. They're a lesser known team, not many sponsors = not much cash = Clide and Killer giving their earnings back to the Coach so he can keep the team alive.

On July 23 2011 09:58 SafeAsCheese wrote:


For what.

On July 23 2011 10:12 Munk-E wrote:

That one made me laugh!

On July 23 2011 10:37 j3i wrote:


Well, Coach Lee and TSL provided for all his living and practice conditions for the past 10 months or so. I can only imagine that his decision to join EG with almost no discussion can be considered disrespectful.

On July 23 2011 10:30 SafeAsCheese wrote:


Blame should be placed 50% on EG and 50% on Lee for blowing it out of proportion.

Blaming puma for not being "loyal" is just asinine.

On July 23 2011 10:41 Angelbelow wrote:
What is the reaction now that EG has made a statement? A lot of those comments are just "he was stolen" but thats not the case at all.

On July 23 2011 10:49 taLbuk wrote:


I don't think EG has made a statement or press release, playXP broke the news too early with the fact of puma being signed wrong. would be interesting to see their response to what AG said on WoC but it would be kind of hard for someone to tell them what happened without bias etc.

On July 23 2011 11:00 EchoZ wrote:


All i remember from WoC was Milkis bashing, AG talking in circles and a biased moderator.

On July 23 2011 11:03 SafeAsCheese wrote:


All I remember was milkis never having an argument, AG explaining the situation while the chat spammed "SPIN SPIN SPIN" and then everyone in the threads ignoring the important parts of his argument (like puma telling him to let puma speak to Lee) and everyone ignoring it.

On July 23 2011 10:14 XiGua wrote:

Except it's not at a fastfood place...

On July 23 2011 10:16 Dawski wrote:
one final time lets puts this into a perspective of employer/employee to all those who still think EG did "bad business"

lets say this is a plumbing company

employers name = TSL (Total Sewage Lovers)

employees name = PLUMA

Plumas situation: went through his entire apprenticeship in one company where they taught him everything he knows about plumbing. This company's situation is where payment is very low and lots of people are quitting like his friend FD (Fast at Drains) and the only ones left are close friends of the owner who are accepting the pay cuts

They sent him to plumb some new townhouses that went up in a different location.

He did a good job.

Competitor company EG (Ecstatic for Gutters) who were also working on some of those townhouses took notice of his fast/low cost/quality work.

a foreman for EG walks up to him and says that they will give him a higher wage if he comes work for them (this is how it works in businesses, you expect the foreman to go to Pumas employer and ask if he can have his employee? what do you think we all still own slaves on our cotton fields as well?)

Pluma thinks about his situation and agrees that its the best choice and for some reason doesn't tell his boss and doesn't give his two weeks and just shoots off to the next job. Pluma's former boss is angry that his plumbing company is going down the drain and writes on his blog.

On July 23 2011 11:02 JiYan wrote:
=\ honestly a lot of these comments are justified, but virtually identical to the reactions we had here at tl

On July 23 2011 11:09 eggs wrote:


not really. the TL thread didn't have nearly as much PuMa bashing. which is ironic, because the TL thread said the Korean way is all about the team/family/community but their netizens are blaming PuMa and sympathizing with Coach Lee, while the TL thread was bashing EG as an organization and having sympathy for TSL as a team.

On July 23 2011 11:09 eggs wrote:


not really. the TL thread didn't have nearly as much PuMa bashing. which is ironic, because the TL thread said the Korean way is all about the team/family/community but their netizens are blaming PuMa and sympathizing with Coach Lee, while the TL thread was bashing EG as an organization and having sympathy for TSL as a team.

On July 23 2011 11:02 JiYan wrote:
=\ honestly a lot of these comments are justified, but virtually identical to the reactions we had here at tl

On July 23 2011 09:04 gullberg wrote:

To be frank I lol'd when I read that.

The koreans kinda hate him now, that comment about PuMa dying O.o

On July 23 2011 12:06 koreasilver wrote:

This is what I've been saying the whole goddamned time. All these people that have been saying "oh, this will affect the relationship between the Korean community and the international community" while citing what people post on Korean sites is so fucking stupid because like 9/10 people everywhere are going to just run around like headless chickens spewing shit and blood everywhere because they overreact and love to sensationalize everything.

Everything is going to be fine, fuck.

On July 23 2011 10:35 Waxangel wrote:

Oh, here's a semi article I had written up before I stopped trying to make it any good:

Did the EG's pursuit of TSL's Puma close the gates for many Koreans? As much as EG's Alex Garfield espoused the the need for Korea to open itself up to the international way of ESPORTS business, he may very well have become a detriment to his own cause.

Following the the news of Puma's enticement by a foreign team, Korea's two major SC II media sites PlayXP and ThisIsGame wasted no time publishing editorials calling for the hasty implementation of protectionary measures from the Starcraft II Conference (S2Con) of Korea. In fact, ThisIsGame reported that GomTV and S2Con had already felt the need the create protectionary measures before the EG-TSL ordeal went down. If that were not enough, S2Con's own columnist also chipped in with his opinion, brutally criticizing his own organization for their failure to protect the interests of Korean teams and players in this regard.

That's not to say that we won't see more deals like that between MVP and Complexity or oGs and SK. In those deals, the original Korean team retains effective 'ownership' of the player while the foreign company is merely subsidizing his overseas activities.

But the line seems to be drawn at Korean players making complete moves to foreign teams, and it may soon become a very difficult one to cross.

Sources:
Starcraft II Conference: http://s2con.com/xe/column/8373
ThisIsGame: http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?id=710199&board=&category=13439&subcategory=&page=1&best=&searchmode=&search=&orderby=&token=
PlayXP: http://www.playxp.com/sc2/news/view.php?article_id=3209931
Weapon of Choice: http://www.onemoregame.tv/index.php/shows/weapon-of-choice.html

On July 23 2011 11:09 eggs wrote:


not really. the TL thread didn't have nearly as much PuMa bashing. which is ironic, because the TL thread said the Korean way is all about the team/family/community but their netizens are blaming PuMa and sympathizing with Coach Lee, while the TL thread was bashing EG as an organization and having sympathy for TSL as a team.

On July 23 2011 11:00 EchoZ wrote:


All i remember from WoC was the bashing Milkis recieved, AG talking in circles and a biased moderator.

On July 23 2011 12:36 Duravi wrote:
I think most people on TL understand he was a 19 year old kid offered money from a foreign team when he currently wasn't making any and put in a difficult situation.

On July 23 2011 12:03 hyptonic wrote:
Seems here we blame EG and there they blame Puma

On July 23 2011 11:00 EchoZ wrote:


All i remember from WoC was the bashing Milkis recieved, AG talking in circles and a biased moderator.

On July 23 2011 08:58 Retgery wrote:

That one mad me mad.

On July 23 2011 14:07 dangm24 wrote:
holy crap....hopefully the translation made it harsher than what they actually meant....but very understandable

On July 23 2011 12:52 stangstang wrote:


That is quite the LOL's. EG gets an amazing player, Puma gets a good deal. Both are to blame apparently.

On July 23 2011 14:15 reneg wrote:


I think it's ridiculous. I feel like a lot of them feel spurned because a Korean doesn't want to play in Korea anymore, he wants to move out into the big wide foreigner world. I feel a lot of them are upset because of the perceived (true or not) dominance of the Korean scene.

Unfortunately, it seems like there's more money to be made playing in a large number of foreign tourneys than there is to be made in participating in the GSL once a month.

Frankly, I'm glad PuMa made the switch, I'm glad EG talked to him, I'm glad that all of these events have transpired. I feel like they can't do anything except increase competition for players, which, in turn, will raise up player salaries and playing conditions to the point that they can actually sign contracts and work in a good environment, rather than being under a moral obligation to play for a team because they provide them a place to eat and sleep and play.

We shouldn't be exchanging our players for just room and board. We should be paying them actual salaries, and I feel like it's not too much to hope that this starts a domino effect.

On July 23 2011 14:19 Executor1 wrote:

Did you listen to weapon of choice? AG stated that puma will be staying in korea and they will somehow be providing him with an environment to continue his growth as a player. (supposedly, read above to see what i think about that)

If he really wanted to move to the states for whatever reason and practice over there (maybe like rain who moved to NA cause his dad lives in new york and he wanted a change of scenery/ to experience the foreign scene) but as far as i know puma doesnt have any plans like that.

On July 23 2011 14:07 dangm24 wrote:
holy crap....hopefully the translation made it harsher than what they actually meant....but very understandable

On July 23 2011 14:15 reneg wrote:


I think it's ridiculous. I feel like a lot of them feel spurned because a Korean doesn't want to play in Korea anymore, he wants to move out into the big wide foreigner world. I feel a lot of them are upset because of the perceived (true or not) dominance of the Korean scene.

Unfortunately, it seems like there's more money to be made playing in a large number of foreign tourneys than there is to be made in participating in the GSL once a month.

Frankly, I'm glad PuMa made the switch, I'm glad EG talked to him, I'm glad that all of these events have transpired. I feel like they can't do anything except increase competition for players, which, in turn, will raise up player salaries and playing conditions to the point that they can actually sign contracts and work in a good environment, rather than being under a moral obligation to play for a team because they provide them a place to eat and sleep and play.

We shouldn't be exchanging our players for just room and board. We should be paying them actual salaries, and I feel like it's not too much to hope that this starts a domino effect.

On July 23 2011 18:47 Gotmog wrote:
Wow....koreans are so sadly miss informed... (well, in all honesty it's almost as bad as foreigners on the first day).

What i don't get is why is Puma such an angel in all this
EG is a team, saw a player without a contract, asked him whether he would be even interested in a contract with pro-team, after all that they let him talk to his coach first before deciding anything.
Why would you even go to his "coatch" if you don't even know that some player would consider joining a foreign team? Not to mention the fact, that in western world eyes he was a free player on the market.

On July 23 2011 08:54 UTL_Unlimited wrote:
바이즈런: 다좋은데 이드라 싸이코패스 맨탈만 배우지말아라
(I'm fine with it. Just don't learn/[listen to] Idra's psychopath metal)

On July 23 2011 18:39 Timestreamer wrote:
Hopefully the Korean teams will start using contracts, just like every other company or business around the world does. They need to face the fact that they will need to make more effort to keep players with their teams - now that the foreign scene offers so many tournaments and large prize pools, a good Korean player has less and less incentive to stay in Korea.

Face it - the game has changed, and with it - the Korean teams will need to make the proper adjustments in order to appeal to the better players.

On July 23 2011 23:40 Keone wrote:
Ok.

To be honest, I absolutely hate threads like this.

All I hear from the comments are, "they think this." "we think this."

It basically suddenly starts this huge mentality of "us against the Koreans."

What is this bullshit? Look at these posts. Some of you guys are absolutely ridiculous. From what I see, the Koreans' posts are EXACTLY the same as TL's. They're IDENTICAL. And some of you have the most ridiculous replies about how the "Koreans" are this, that, and how these replies suddenly represent Koreans.

Some of you guys are downright racist in your replies and you really deserve to be damn ashamed of yourselves.

On July 23 2011 09:08 unoriginalname wrote:
Oh no, you've translated Korean opinions to English concerning the matter. Alex may come out and accuse you of biased journalism that is threatening EG as you have not asked for a statement from them!

But in all honesty, I see the Korean opinions aren't too dissimilar to the ones expressed on Team Liquid, I think most of the foreign scene seem to think that PuMa is a better player than what the Koreans believe though.

On July 23 2011 23:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:


1. What makes you think the western sc2 boom is going to slow down? It's already larger than the Korean scene, as Milkis said on Weapon of Choice.
2. If anything, EG is helping Puma make a living. Playing games is fun, but you still need to be able to survive. A pro-gamer's longevity is relatively short, and it would be nice for them to make some money doing their full-time job, so that they have something to bank after careers are over.
3. EG didn't abuse anything. They showed interest in a player they wanted, and Puma showed interest back. TSL didn't have the goods, and that was that. TSL didn't even own Puma. TSL was the only group that was screwing over Puma by not being able to provide him with a good enough atmosphere at the present.
4. Why do you think so many Koreans are going to foreigner teams? Because every foreigner team is evil and abusive, or because they're offering appropriate salaries and standards of living that Korean teams are not, because BW is still the big thing in Korea?

On July 24 2011 01:27 Talin wrote:


1. Let's call it a prediction. Or let's look at every other western attempt at e-sports - it's always been hype hype hype peak boom collapse. It may not die out, but it's definitely going to slow down, because right now there's no real justification for the amount of money being dumped into western sc2 => they can't keep doing it like this forever.

2. EG is helping Puma make a living for a year, maybe two. Then what? Keep in mind that Puma already won NASL so he was financially well off for some time, and during that time he was extremely likely to get a fat contract in Korea as well (if not in TSL, then in another team). But Puma opted to take instant gratification deal, and that's going to hurt him big time in the long run. Just my prediction of course.

3. EG was extremely disrespectful and abusive. They approached Puma during a competitive event, Puma came to NASL to play and compete, he was sent there (and had travel paid for) by his team. EG manager has no business even talking to him under such circumstances.

If EG had a sense of respect and basic courtesy, they would wait for Puma to go back to Korea, then contact the TSL to see what contract was he on (or if he was on one) and if TSL and Puma agreed then talk to Puma and see if he wants to go. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they HAD to do it this way (obviously they've done nothing wrong legally even as is), but doing it this way is what would get them respect both in Korea and here. Doing it the way they decided to do it - well the consequences are obvious and I bet not very pleasant for EG.

TSL provided Puma with more than EG can provide him. TSL might not have had the money (yet), but EG has only money and pretty much nothing else to offer. Most importantly, they can't provide him with means to maintain skill level and keep up with the Korean scene.

4. First of all, there is no "so many Koreans" going to western teams. There's only like 5, out of which only Puma is at a skill level that matters on the Korean scene right now. The number of Koreans that refused offers from western teams is probably a lot bigger (we already know about Clide and SangHo just from TSL so you can bet your ass there were more). In a year or two we'll see which was the smarter choice.

Out of the other Koreans that joined western teams, Rain left TSL about a month before joining Fnatic, so there was nothing abusive about that. Phoenix wasn't really on a team as far as I know, TanDongHo is going to study in England so it only makes sense he finds a foreign team anyway, and Oz isn't Leenock or sC (plus the transfer was very amicable and no side freaked out). So yeah, don't try to compare any of those deals to the way EG is doing "the business".

On July 23 2011 08:58 Retgery wrote:

That one mad me mad.

On July 24 2011 02:00 joshboy42 wrote:
lol at a Korean calling Idra's music 'psycopath metal'

On July 24 2011 02:14 gh0un wrote:
Looks to me like most korean netizens are immature kids.
Puma was offered a great opportunity and he decided to take it.
Considering korean progamers arent paid anything by their teams (except IM), no one can really blame the players if they leave their team for more secure teams that can pay them.

Playing at their level is a fulltime job, and if korean teams cant pay their players, then they have no right to be butthurt if their players decide to leave for more secure career options.

On July 24 2011 02:03 koreasilver wrote:

ftfy

On July 24 2011 02:16 Shiori wrote:

No one is mad about that. They're mad about the lack of etiquette.

On July 24 2011 01:27 Talin wrote:


3. EG was extremely disrespectful and abusive. They approached Puma during a competitive event, Puma came to NASL to play and compete, he was sent there (and had travel paid for) by his team. EG manager has no business even talking to him under such circumstances.

If EG had a sense of respect and basic courtesy, they would wait for Puma to go back to Korea, then contact the TSL to see what contract was he on (or if he was on one) and if TSL and Puma agreed then talk to Puma and see if he wants to go. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they HAD to do it this way (obviously they've done nothing wrong legally even as is), but doing it this way is what would get them respect both in Korea and here. Doing it the way they decided to do it - well the consequences are obvious and I bet not very pleasant for EG.

TSL provided Puma with more than EG can provide him. TSL might not have had the money (yet), but EG has only money and pretty much nothing else to offer. Most importantly, they can't provide him with means to maintain skill level and keep up with the Korean scene.

EG was extremely disrespectful and abusive. They approached Puma during a competitive event, Puma came to NASL to play and compete, he was sent there (and had travel paid for) by his team. EG manager has no business even talking to him under such circumstances.

If EG had a sense of respect and basic courtesy, they would wait for Puma to go back to Korea, then contact the TSL to see what contract was he on (or if he was on one) and if TSL and Puma agreed then talk to Puma and see if he wants to go.

TSL provided Puma with more than EG can provide him. TSL might not have had the money (yet), but EG has only money and pretty much nothing else to offer. Most importantly, they can't provide him with means to maintain skill level and keep up with the Korean scene.

On July 23 2011 08:58 Retgery wrote:

That one mad me mad.

On July 24 2011 02:28 SafeAsCheese wrote:


And what happens if TSL guilt tripped him into changing his mind? It seems like Koreans are extremely manipulative with their concepts of loyalty. Pumas decision was his own, it wasn't influenced by his coach staring him in the face.

On July 24 2011 02:28 SafeAsCheese wrote:
He gave him a card and said to talk to him if interested. If you think this is "underhanded" and that he has "no business" even speaking to any other teams players, then that is your opinion. It's happened before, it will happen more.

On July 24 2011 02:28 SafeAsCheese wrote:
And what happens if TSL guilt tripped him into changing his mind? It seems like Koreans are extremely manipulative with their concepts of loyalty. Pumas decision was his own, it wasn't influenced by his coach staring him in the face.

On July 24 2011 02:28 SafeAsCheese wrote:
generic "foreign teams suck ass, anyone not in korea will turn to shit" comment that has no known citation or may change soon.

On July 24 2011 02:42 travis wrote:
I find this whole thing ridiculous. And by that I mean it's ridiculous how big of an issue it turned into.

draaaaaaaaaaaaama

On July 24 2011 02:28 SafeAsCheese wrote:


Ah, your one of those people.



He gave him a card and said to talk to him if interested. If you think this is "underhanded" and that he has "no business" even speaking to any other teams players, then that is your opinion. It's happened before, it will happen more.



And what happens if TSL guilt tripped him into changing his mind? It seems like Koreans are extremely manipulative with their concepts of loyalty. Pumas decision was his own, it wasn't influenced by his coach staring him in the face.



generic "foreign teams suck ass, anyone not in korea will turn to shit" comment that has no known citation or may change soon.

On July 24 2011 01:27 Talin wrote:


1. Let's call it a prediction. Or let's look at every other western attempt at e-sports - it's always been hype hype hype peak boom collapse. It may not die out, but it's definitely going to slow down, because right now there's no real justification for the amount of money being dumped into western sc2 => they can't keep doing it like this forever.

2. EG is helping Puma make a living for a year, maybe two. Then what? Keep in mind that Puma already won NASL so he was financially well off for some time, and during that time he was extremely likely to get a fat contract in Korea as well (if not in TSL, then in another team). But Puma opted to take instant gratification deal, and that's going to hurt him big time in the long run. Just my prediction of course.

3. EG was extremely disrespectful and abusive. They approached Puma during a competitive event, Puma came to NASL to play and compete, he was sent there (and had travel paid for) by his team. EG manager has no business even talking to him under such circumstances.

If EG had a sense of respect and basic courtesy, they would wait for Puma to go back to Korea, then contact the TSL to see what contract was he on (or if he was on one) and if TSL and Puma agreed then talk to Puma and see if he wants to go. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they HAD to do it this way (obviously they've done nothing wrong legally even as is), but doing it this way is what would get them respect both in Korea and here. Doing it the way they decided to do it - well the consequences are obvious and I bet not very pleasant for EG.

TSL provided Puma with more than EG can provide him. TSL might not have had the money (yet), but EG has only money and pretty much nothing else to offer. Most importantly, they can't provide him with means to maintain skill level and keep up with the Korean scene.

4. First of all, there is no "so many Koreans" going to western teams. There's only like 5, out of which only Puma is at a skill level that matters on the Korean scene right now. The number of Koreans that refused offers from western teams is probably a lot bigger (we already know about Clide and SangHo just from TSL so you can bet your ass there were more). In a year or two we'll see which was the smarter choice.

Out of the other Koreans that joined western teams, Rain left TSL about a month before joining Fnatic, so there was nothing abusive about that. Phoenix wasn't really on a team as far as I know, TanDongHo is going to study in England so it only makes sense he finds a foreign team anyway, and Oz isn't Leenock or sC (plus the transfer was very amicable and no side freaked out). So yeah, don't try to compare any of those deals to the way EG is doing "the business".

On July 24 2011 02:55 rysecake wrote:


Hmm...this has a known citation. Wanna know what it is? That foreigner teams actually do suck. If puma joins the eg house I expect him to lose all skill within a month or 2. That's what happens when you practice with people like machine and incontrol.

On July 24 2011 03:40 DigitalD[562] wrote:



2. I don't want to be too offensive so I'll put my true feelings in a spoiler. + Show Spoiler + Nothing in life, not even in esports is guaranteed. The best of the best no matter what their field of expertise almost never get a one year guarantee. Good on Puma for taking what he earned. This isn't him just looking for "instant gratification", he put in years of starcraft practice and dedication and is only now seeing the rewards now. This only just the beginning in many ways for Puma and I think most people agree.

On July 24 2011 04:17 Executor1 wrote:

I disagree this is the begining of the end for Puma.

Riddle me this, Puma clearly thrived skill wise in the TSL environment or he would not have performed as well as he did at NASL. Now he doesnt have a team house, he doesnt have a coach and he doesnt have player support, he is planning on staying in korea as far as weve heard from what AG said on weapon of choice. In what way beyond financially is this better for puma. Your kidding yourself if you think his skill level wont drop dramatically from losing his practice partners and coach that made him good in the first place, and joining a foreign team where nobody speaks his language/ even lives in the same country as him.

Even if they did no one beyond idra would even beable to help Puma raise his skill level at the moment (and even idra is questionable with his 3 hours a day practice routine =/) I dont see any actually benificial support EG could give to Puma in korea from the US. They stated this was a safe way to enter the korean market without starting a team or buying out a team / getting a team house in korea.

So what can they do, buy all their players korean accounts so they can practice with Puma , i imagine its something like this. I honestly dont see things going well for puma beyond a finanical stand point from here on out.

It doesnt even really make sense to me either , he won 50k he could have lived very comfortably for free with TSL and continued to improve his skill level drastically for months and months to come produced some results and helped turn things around for TSL,. I dont know what he was thinking but clearly he is still very young and naive and saw a bit of money and went for it.

On July 24 2011 04:17 Executor1 wrote:

I disagree this is the begining of the end for Puma.

Riddle me this, Puma clearly thrived skill wise in the TSL environment or he would not have performed as well as he did at NASL. Now he doesnt have a team house, he doesnt have a coach and he doesnt have player support, he is planning on staying in korea as far as weve heard from what AG said on weapon of choice. In what way beyond financially is this better for puma. Your kidding yourself if you think his skill level wont drop dramatically from losing his practice partners and coach that made him good in the first place, and joining a foreign team where nobody speaks his language/ even lives in the same country as him.

Even if they did no one beyond idra would even beable to help Puma raise his skill level at the moment (and even idra is questionable with his 3 hours a day practice routine =/) I dont see any actually benificial support EG could give to Puma in korea from the US. They stated this was a safe way to enter the korean market without starting a team or buying out a team / getting a team house in korea.

So what can they do, buy all their players korean accounts so they can practice with Puma , i imagine its something like this. I honestly dont see things going well for puma beyond a finanical stand point from here on out.

It doesnt even really make sense to me either , he won 50k he could have lived very comfortably for free with TSL and continued to improve his skill level drastically for months and months to come produced some results and helped turn things around for TSL,. I dont know what he was thinking but clearly he is still very young and naive and saw a bit of money and went for it.

On July 24 2011 02:46 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Just waiting for Puma to go the way of MMA after winning one tournament. If that happens, we'll all look back and laugh at the shitstorm EG caused for themselves when they can't deal with Koreans anymore.

Best of luck to all parties, hope this was worth it.

On July 24 2011 12:40 Carbonthief wrote:
Wow ok. So just because Puma wants to be able to provide for himself and takes an amazingly good opportunity, even though he talked to his coach about it before fully making the decision, he's a horrible person? This is absurd. Why would EG approach TSL and be like hey can we have one of your players? Of course that isn't going to go well, why would they even try? It's not even any of TSL's business what EG does especially since Puma was neither on a contract nor receiving a salary.

I feel sorry for TSL and I realize they would probably provide a salary if they could afford it. But it's not Puma's fault either, you have to have money to live, that's just the way it is, and Puma did this in the most respectful way he could given the circumstances, and people are just jumping all over him for it.

If I was Puma I would have done the same thing. If I was EG I would have done the same thing. If I was TSL's coach I would have completely understood why it happened, and while it would suck and make me sad, I would be understanding and support Puma's decision and just wish him well in his career instead of running a campaign to ruin his fucking image.

On July 24 2011 13:51 Giwoon wrote:
바이즈런: 다좋은데 이드라 싸이코패스 맨탈만 배우지말아라
(I'm fine with it. Just don't learn/[listen to] Idra's psychopath metal)

you got this translation wrong
its actually
"idra's psyopathic mentality"

On July 24 2011 13:57 starcraft2rush wrote:


You just don't get it do you. We as a community have been waiting to throw eggs at EG for awhile now.

They finally do something somewhat douchey , giving us an opportunity to shame the American dirt bags and you come in here with your logical reasoning.


your a damn buzzkill man TT

On July 24 2011 13:51 Giwoon wrote:
바이즈런: 다좋은데 이드라 싸이코패스 맨탈만 배우지말아라
(I'm fine with it. Just don't learn/[listen to] Idra's psychopath metal)

you got this translation wrong
its actually
"idra's psyopathic mentality"