EPTKorean Reactions to Puma's Situation - Page 8
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JeanLuc
Canada377 Posts
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PiQLiQ
Sweden702 Posts
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sCfO20
176 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46484 Posts
On July 23 2011 23:14 Talin wrote: That's funny because back in BW people were complaining about KeSPA all the time because of their iron grip on all the players and them not caring for fans outside of Korea. The thing is, when Koreans start taking SC2 as a "business", when a SKT or CJ or Samsung move in it will be the end of western scene as far as top tier (or anywhere near top tier) competition goes. If you are somebody who hates KeSPA and the situation we had in Brood War PRAY that this doesn't happen anytime soon in SC2. I thought people would welcome the change to a more honest and more passionate sport environment. But no, now that EG blatantly abuses a small team that's only trying to get by and provide their players with a good practice environment to improve a bunch of new fanboys are feeling all superior and smug about EG "doin' business" and how the poor and naive Korean team got played. Well done EG, you've "done business" by screwing over a team that wasn't really a business in the first place, and without even a touch of good manner and respect for TSL. You're also going to screw over Puma, poor guy doesn't realize how far behind the top players he will be in a year and how his career will hit a wall once the western sc2 boom slows down. But I guess it's his own fault for only seeing the shiny dollars in front of him and nothing beyond that. 1. What makes you think the western sc2 boom is going to slow down? It's already larger than the Korean scene, as Milkis said on Weapon of Choice. 2. If anything, EG is helping Puma make a living. Playing games is fun, but you still need to be able to survive. A pro-gamer's longevity is relatively short, and it would be nice for them to make some money doing their full-time job, so that they have something to bank after careers are over. 3. EG didn't abuse anything. They showed interest in a player they wanted, and Puma showed interest back. TSL didn't have the goods, and that was that. TSL didn't even own Puma. TSL was the only group that was screwing over Puma by not being able to provide him with a good enough atmosphere at the present. 4. Why do you think so many Koreans are going to foreigner teams? Because every foreigner team is evil and abusive, or because they're offering appropriate salaries and standards of living that Korean teams are not, because BW is still the big thing in Korea? | ||
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dondo
United States53 Posts
In the case of the player it helps in the case of what if a team felt you were not practicing hard enough. (whether or not you are or you aren't) a team could just get rid of you and you would have no legal repercussions of saying why that is wrong because there is no document that says any sort of required time to practice. Or in a more realistic sense what if a team wants to just get rid of you because they have found they want better/different players. If they throw you out without a contract in place then there is no foul on them. However if a contract is in place then they might have to pay you or just can't get rid of you for no cost. Also, anyone who has the belief that these korean teams are just little and can't fend for themselves need to realize that an Skt1 or samsung khan could do the exact same thing and would it matter as much. In my opinion no one would care because it is a korean team absorbing another one. The real issue seems to me seems to be that some people are convinced that korean teams and foreigner teams should remain totally separate. | ||
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Keone
United States812 Posts
To be honest, I absolutely hate threads like this. All I hear from the comments are, "they think this." "we think this." It basically suddenly starts this huge mentality of "us against the Koreans." What is this bullshit? Look at these posts. Some of you guys are absolutely ridiculous. From what I see, the Koreans' posts are EXACTLY the same as TL's. They're IDENTICAL. And some of you have the most ridiculous replies about how the "Koreans" are this, that, and how these replies suddenly represent Koreans. Some of you guys are downright racist in your replies and you really deserve to be damn ashamed of yourselves. | ||
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EnSky
Philippines1003 Posts
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Ansinjunger
United States2451 Posts
On July 23 2011 23:40 Keone wrote: Ok. To be honest, I absolutely hate threads like this. All I hear from the comments are, "they think this." "we think this." It basically suddenly starts this huge mentality of "us against the Koreans." What is this bullshit? Look at these posts. Some of you guys are absolutely ridiculous. From what I see, the Koreans' posts are EXACTLY the same as TL's. They're IDENTICAL. And some of you have the most ridiculous replies about how the "Koreans" are this, that, and how these replies suddenly represent Koreans. Some of you guys are downright racist in your replies and you really deserve to be damn ashamed of yourselves. Well some of us enjoy threads like this for very similar reasons. It's interesting to see that our Korean netizen counterparts are very much like us. For everyone justifying what happened, fine. It just makes me sad when money matters more than anything else. And I'll say again, Puma almost certainly would not have won NASL let alone gotten the chance to enter without support and training from his team. That's not to say he wouldn't have found another team if he wasn't on TSL, but what happened to loyalty? I don't really blame him though, he was bombarded with fans and a very memorable experience at NASL, plus rich men telling him to come live the "dream." | ||
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GoStyle
United Kingdom95 Posts
On July 23 2011 09:08 unoriginalname wrote: Oh no, you've translated Korean opinions to English concerning the matter. Alex may come out and accuse you of biased journalism that is threatening EG as you have not asked for a statement from them! But in all honesty, I see the Korean opinions aren't too dissimilar to the ones expressed on Team Liquid, I think most of the foreign scene seem to think that PuMa is a better player than what the Koreans believe though. haha agreed. EG are indeed sly dogs | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
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levarien11111
United States61 Posts
people need to stop feeling sorry for the tsl team they are trash and dont realize that if you want good players then you have to pay them, they need money to plan for the future without the money then this is all just very temporary without a next step heck even the not so good players deserve a little bit but since the scene is so new i can't really say that its required..... now do i agree with the way EG did things? Yes and no yes- they offered a player without a contract or salary, a contract and a salary no- EG should have been more professional and contacted the coaching staff first but it doesn't really matter that much  | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On July 23 2011 23:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: 1. What makes you think the western sc2 boom is going to slow down? It's already larger than the Korean scene, as Milkis said on Weapon of Choice. 2. If anything, EG is helping Puma make a living. Playing games is fun, but you still need to be able to survive. A pro-gamer's longevity is relatively short, and it would be nice for them to make some money doing their full-time job, so that they have something to bank after careers are over. 3. EG didn't abuse anything. They showed interest in a player they wanted, and Puma showed interest back. TSL didn't have the goods, and that was that. TSL didn't even own Puma. TSL was the only group that was screwing over Puma by not being able to provide him with a good enough atmosphere at the present. 4. Why do you think so many Koreans are going to foreigner teams? Because every foreigner team is evil and abusive, or because they're offering appropriate salaries and standards of living that Korean teams are not, because BW is still the big thing in Korea? 1. Let's call it a prediction. Or let's look at every other western attempt at e-sports - it's always been hype hype hype peak boom collapse. It may not die out, but it's definitely going to slow down, because right now there's no real justification for the amount of money being dumped into western sc2 => they can't keep doing it like this forever. 2. EG is helping Puma make a living for a year, maybe two. Then what? Keep in mind that Puma already won NASL so he was financially well off for some time, and during that time he was extremely likely to get a fat contract in Korea as well (if not in TSL, then in another team). But Puma opted to take instant gratification deal, and that's going to hurt him big time in the long run. Just my prediction of course. 3. EG was extremely disrespectful and abusive. They approached Puma during a competitive event, Puma came to NASL to play and compete, he was sent there (and had travel paid for) by his team. EG manager has no business even talking to him under such circumstances. If EG had a sense of respect and basic courtesy, they would wait for Puma to go back to Korea, then contact the TSL to see what contract was he on (or if he was on one) and if TSL and Puma agreed then talk to Puma and see if he wants to go. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they HAD to do it this way (obviously they've done nothing wrong legally even as is), but doing it this way is what would get them respect both in Korea and here. Doing it the way they decided to do it - well the consequences are obvious and I bet not very pleasant for EG. TSL provided Puma with more than EG can provide him. TSL might not have had the money (yet), but EG has only money and pretty much nothing else to offer. Most importantly, they can't provide him with means to maintain skill level and keep up with the Korean scene. 4. First of all, there is no "so many Koreans" going to western teams. There's only like 5, out of which only Puma is at a skill level that matters on the Korean scene right now. The number of Koreans that refused offers from western teams is probably a lot bigger (we already know about Clide and SangHo just from TSL so you can bet your ass there were more). In a year or two we'll see which was the smarter choice. Out of the other Koreans that joined western teams, Rain left TSL about a month before joining Fnatic, so there was nothing abusive about that. Phoenix wasn't really on a team as far as I know, TanDongHo is going to study in England so it only makes sense he finds a foreign team anyway, and Oz isn't Leenock or sC (plus the transfer was very amicable and no side freaked out). So yeah, don't try to compare any of those deals to the way EG is doing "the business". | ||
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denzelz
United States604 Posts
On July 24 2011 01:27 Talin wrote: 1. Let's call it a prediction. Or let's look at every other western attempt at e-sports - it's always been hype hype hype peak boom collapse. It may not die out, but it's definitely going to slow down, because right now there's no real justification for the amount of money being dumped into western sc2 => they can't keep doing it like this forever. 2. EG is helping Puma make a living for a year, maybe two. Then what? Keep in mind that Puma already won NASL so he was financially well off for some time, and during that time he was extremely likely to get a fat contract in Korea as well (if not in TSL, then in another team). But Puma opted to take instant gratification deal, and that's going to hurt him big time in the long run. Just my prediction of course. 3. EG was extremely disrespectful and abusive. They approached Puma during a competitive event, Puma came to NASL to play and compete, he was sent there (and had travel paid for) by his team. EG manager has no business even talking to him under such circumstances. If EG had a sense of respect and basic courtesy, they would wait for Puma to go back to Korea, then contact the TSL to see what contract was he on (or if he was on one) and if TSL and Puma agreed then talk to Puma and see if he wants to go. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they HAD to do it this way (obviously they've done nothing wrong legally even as is), but doing it this way is what would get them respect both in Korea and here. Doing it the way they decided to do it - well the consequences are obvious and I bet not very pleasant for EG. TSL provided Puma with more than EG can provide him. TSL might not have had the money (yet), but EG has only money and pretty much nothing else to offer. Most importantly, they can't provide him with means to maintain skill level and keep up with the Korean scene. 4. First of all, there is no "so many Koreans" going to western teams. There's only like 5, out of which only Puma is at a skill level that matters on the Korean scene right now. The number of Koreans that refused offers from western teams is probably a lot bigger (we already know about Clide and SangHo just from TSL so you can bet your ass there were more). In a year or two we'll see which was the smarter choice. Out of the other Koreans that joined western teams, Rain left TSL about a month before joining Fnatic, so there was nothing abusive about that. Phoenix wasn't really on a team as far as I know, TanDongHo is going to study in England so it only makes sense he finds a foreign team anyway, and Oz isn't Leenock or sC (plus the transfer was very amicable and no side freaked out). So yeah, don't try to compare any of those deals to the way EG is doing "the business". You are the most intelligent poster on this topic that I've read so far. Agreed with everything you wrote here. | ||
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OhMyGawd
United States264 Posts
(I'm fine with it. Just don't learn/[listen to] Idra's psychopath metal) LOL, why is there so much IdrA hate for EG =S...korean idra bm! | ||
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
Nothing to be mad about. Take it with a grain of salt. | ||
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joshboy42
Australia116 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On July 24 2011 02:00 joshboy42 wrote: lol at a Korean calling Idra's music 'psycopath metal' ftfy | ||
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gh0un
601 Posts
Puma was offered a great opportunity and he decided to take it. Considering korean progamers arent paid anything by their teams (except IM), no one can really blame the players if they leave their team for more secure teams that can pay them. Playing at their level is a fulltime job, and if korean teams cant pay their players, then they have no right to be butthurt if their players decide to leave for more secure career options. Bashing puma for that is really immature in my opinion. | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On July 24 2011 02:14 gh0un wrote: Looks to me like most korean netizens are immature kids. Puma was offered a great opportunity and he decided to take it. Considering korean progamers arent paid anything by their teams (except IM), no one can really blame the players if they leave their team for more secure teams that can pay them. Playing at their level is a fulltime job, and if korean teams cant pay their players, then they have no right to be butthurt if their players decide to leave for more secure career options. No one is mad about that. They're mad about the lack of etiquette. | ||
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joshboy42
Australia116 Posts
my bad wasn't trying to be offensive, just found it funny | ||
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