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On July 21 2011 17:47 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:41 brachester wrote:On July 21 2011 17:37 seiferoth10 wrote:On July 21 2011 17:33 Cuddle wrote:
I don't understand how this is terrible by either Puma or EG.
I have a job, I'm contracted and have a salary. I get job offers by other companies every now and then, I talk to them about what they offer and when I find something I prefer to my current work situation (be it better pay, better work environment or what have you) I go tell my current boss that I have gotten a better offer and I resign my position. According to basic Swedish employee law (which is in my contract) I have to stay on for 3 month after quitting (to give my employee a chance to find a replacement) BUT we can negotiate this time down to 0 days if both parts agree.
It seems like this was exactly what happened in the Puma-EG case and I don't see anything wrong with it, at all. If TSL wanted to hold Puma to his contract, they could probably have and EG would have had to wait until it expired. They chose not to, in agreement with Puma. Case closed. Oh thank god, someone with a brain. You are a rare breed. Well look at this, the problem is not Puma joining EG, the problem here is how EG approach the player, not the trading itself. Coach lee respect his players wishes and let him go. Let's make an assumption like this, if EG did not directly offer Puma without TSL's permission, they went to talk to TSL, and they did not give EG the permission to talk to Puma, things could have gone a lot different, Puma wouldn't consider about the money and happily stay back. In some other more professional sports like soccer, this way of approaching the players are even considered to be illegal and the club could be fined Yeah, but the scale and the value of the contract matters, and dictates the level of regulation warranted. It's not like Puma was making millions of dollars. He doesn't have an agent to represent him or protect his interests. Who knows if he was even making minimum wage. Can you imagine how angry you would be if someone wanted to hire you from your current job and was willing to pay you more money, but your employer basically cock blocked it because it would be inconvenient for them? Puma might have a contract, but he shouldn't be treated like a slave.
TSL had one of the laxest training schedules imaginable. I doubt he was treated like a slave. And he got free room and board. And a salary to top it off.
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On July 21 2011 17:48 FryktSkyene wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:46 yeint wrote:On July 21 2011 17:41 brachester wrote:Coach lee respect his players wishes and let him go. Not before publicly crucifying him and making himself the victim. The only unprofessionalism that's been shown so far is that. Regardless of the details, if you respect a person, the public face of the end of your professional relationship should be amicable. What about Scoots tweeting about people not knowing facts instead of telling us the facts? Is that professional?
Wait for the release, are you honestly dense enough to think there wont be one soon?...
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ZOMG is TSL going to have to drop out of the GSTL?!?!?!? Before long foreign teams will be running ESPORTS! TT
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On July 21 2011 17:50 yeint wrote:
By airing the details and calling it "disrespectful", he painted Puma as a money-grubbing traitor and EG as a villain.
That's beyond unprofessional. And if you're going to reply with something silly like "but he told the truth!" then just know I'd be done talking to you.
Lol, he just lost his star player to some fuckers in America.
How is he supposed to feel, happy?
At the very LEAST it's disrespectful.
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sc2immvp Jung JongHyun
잠자고 일어난 사이에 무슨일이 벌어진거지
What a baller!
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Man, ESPORT drama is amazing. Thank you all for keeping me awake till GSTL starts!
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I don’t get the hate. Most of the Korean progamers don’t have any degree or something that would get them a well-paid job in the future. According to that the progaming years will prob-ably be his best years. Sitting in a team house practicing for 10h+, only playing the GSL and getting none or a low salary isn’t what I would like to be my “best” years.
On the other hand there is a foreign team which lets him travel all over the world and pays him more money for doing what he loves. I would only decline this offer, if I would see myself on top of Code S for quite a long time and I think nobody can do that.
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On July 21 2011 17:50 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:47 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 17:46 yeint wrote:On July 21 2011 17:41 brachester wrote:Coach lee respect his players wishes and let him go. Not before publicly crucifying him and making himself the victim. The only unprofessionalism that's been shown so far is that. Regardless of the details, if you respect a person, the public face of the end of your professional relationship should be amicable. how in the world did coach lee publicly crucify him? i don't understand, are we looking at the same facts here? By airing the details and calling it "disrespectful", he painted Puma as a money-grubbing traitor and EG as a villain. That's beyond unprofessional. And if you're going to reply with something silly like "but he told the truth!" then just know I'd be done talking to you.
what? he didnt call puma disrespectful, he called EG disrespectful. did you even read the OP?
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On July 21 2011 17:47 SourD wrote:playxp.com article about player's contractPlayxp.com has posted article about this. altho it doesnt speak directly of this matter, they say that CURRENTLY NOBODY HAS CONTRACT BETWEEN TEAM AND PLAYERS. making a move like this possible.
If this is true, then there is no issue here: PuMa was a free agent.
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Upsetting the entire Korean community is not exactly a wise move.
This seems like the key problem. In the short term how comfortable are korean teams going to be now sending players to events like MLG? The future of these exchanges are literally at stake with this type of business practice.
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On July 21 2011 17:44 Gamegene wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:40 wats0n wrote:
That's speculation. Fact remains they have a contract and they can honor it. Puma didn't break the contract, TSL broke the contract because they're pissed he isn't re-signing. Sour grapes. I doubt any team would want to keep a player who basically told them: "I'm leaving because they offered a briefcase of money. I don't respect the rest of my teammates or any of the bonds I share enough to actually tell you of their offer before I made the decision on my own."
He informed them in advance that he would not be re-signing. I fail to see how you can make it out to be such a villainous act. The professional thing for both parties to do is to honor the contract and then part ways.
All "teams" are just collections of contracted players. Don't make it sound like taking a higher paying job in the future is a bad thing. Nobody is criticizing TSL for signing players from lesser Korean teams off the Korean ladder. Gimme a break.
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On July 21 2011 17:47 vnlegend wrote:
Pretty dirty move by EG. This only reinforces the Koreans hatred for Idra and co. I suppose the Koreans are too used to their customs with management discussions and free agency periods.
They can prevent this kind of poaching by having team members sign more binding contracts.
How is it dirty???? EG offered more benefit to puma than tsl ever could.... I bet your a guy that blames lebron for leaving Cleveland also..... lol
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On July 21 2011 17:40 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:33 Cuddle wrote:
I don't understand how this is terrible by either Puma or EG.
I have a job, I'm contracted and have a salary. I get job offers by other companies every now and then, I talk to them about what they offer and when I find something I prefer to my current work situation (be it better pay, better work environment or what have you) I go tell my current boss that I have gotten a better offer and I resign my position. According to basic Swedish employee law (which is in my contract) I have to stay on for 3 month after quitting (to give my employee a chance to find a replacement) BUT we can negotiate this time down to 0 days if both parts agree.
It seems like this was exactly what happened in the Puma-EG case and I don't see anything wrong with it, at all. If TSL wanted to hold Puma to his contract, they could probably have and EG would have had to wait until it expired. They chose not to, in agreement with Puma. Case closed. This is what I've been trying to say only not as well. Of course you could argue that it's a little different for sports but just for the reasons you wrote I can't understand the rage that are being directed at EG.
It's very different in sport. If a team works it's butt off to get a player better, finally to see him win over some great players and win something like NASL, only to have him sniped away. Very different to the work place.
In any sport/esport the team is working to get these players better for the players and themselves and to have another team just pick them away after the harder work is done should be stopped. EG should of atleast talked to TSL first and shown interest and ask to speak to him. Without something like that starcraft 2 will not be as strong, players will just jump about and leagues like the GSTL could be dominated by 1 team with every season lineups being completely different (an over exaggeration but it *could* happen with it being like this).
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Gratz to EG and Puma I suppose. I do think Incontrol's trolling was completely unprofessional, it's like every time I start to like the guy he takes something too far.
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On July 21 2011 17:43 Duravi wrote:
I feel bad for Puma. He was probably getting nothing or close to it from TSL and jumped at the amount of money EG offered him. The thing he doesn't realize is having poor practice partners compared to what he had in korea is really going to stunt his growth. People comparing this to the FXO buyout of fOU or the SK deal with OGS are completely wrong. In both of those other deals the practice of the players is not hindered at all (in the FXO deal it is potentially even helped) where in this deal the quality of practice partners for the player drops like a rock.
The fact that EG seemingly made no contact with TSL is pretty disgusting too. There is no legitimate sport where you can just go up to a player and buy him well he is under contract without talking to the team he is contracted to first. Props to TSL for releasing him despite the underhandedness of EG.
He doesn't have to worry about his growth. He is already the best player in the foreign scene. I'm sure that the rest of Korea will leave him in the dust soon but he'll be making more money than most of them by winning all the foreign tournys.
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Clide wrote on twitter --- Dirty Cash...
It's very disrespectful. Very disappointed with Puma action. ㅈㅈ
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On July 21 2011 17:52 MrBorto wrote:This seems like the key problem. In the short term how comfortable are korean teams going to be now sending players to events like MLG? The future of these exchanges are literally at stake with this type of business practice.
I wonder who EG is going to snatch up at Anaheim. (:
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One thing is for sure, thank god that WoC was pushed to today!! I demand that Wheat and Chill gets everyone involved on the phone and have a heart to heart about this.
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THIS HURTS BENEFITS ESPORTS!
But no, seriously, the concern about this move being "bad" are really just reactionary reflex to the subjective feeling of "betrayal" from a playerl= leaving their team. I think this adds nuance and flavor to esport rivalries/drama as evil geniuses embraces the "evil" in their name - having a bad guy always makes things interesting.
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EPT
