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On July 21 2011 17:50 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:48 FryktSkyene wrote:On July 21 2011 17:46 yeint wrote:On July 21 2011 17:41 brachester wrote:Coach lee respect his players wishes and let him go. Not before publicly crucifying him and making himself the victim. The only unprofessionalism that's been shown so far is that. Regardless of the details, if you respect a person, the public face of the end of your professional relationship should be amicable. What about Scoots tweeting about people not knowing facts instead of telling us the facts? Is that professional? Wait for the release, are you honestly dense enough to think there wont be one soon?...
Then he shouldn't have said anything at all. Saying something via twitter allows us to see hes awake and able to make a statement. Which won't come for a few more hours at least. It's basic trolling 101. Oh, and it's unprofessional.
???
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Finally idra got a good terran practice partner, but I hope korean top players stil practice with puma, as well.( well IM certain they will, I don't think good friends like MC will stop playing with him because he switched teams to have a regular income)
More Puma for foreign tournaments? I can't complain.
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Thread is only almost 3 hrs old and heading to the 100th page
Eagerly awaiting EG's reply. Too bad it's probably like 5 am there now
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I feel like the ban on the "f5" post is really unwarrented.. that was posted when this thread was posted with little more than a title and a note that an update was coming -- he was just creatively expressing what everyone was thinking.... ugh..
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Seems like Clide has to do the job now...
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On July 21 2011 17:47 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:41 brachester wrote:On July 21 2011 17:37 seiferoth10 wrote:On July 21 2011 17:33 Cuddle wrote: I don't understand how this is terrible by either Puma or EG.
I have a job, I'm contracted and have a salary. I get job offers by other companies every now and then, I talk to them about what they offer and when I find something I prefer to my current work situation (be it better pay, better work environment or what have you) I go tell my current boss that I have gotten a better offer and I resign my position. According to basic Swedish employee law (which is in my contract) I have to stay on for 3 month after quitting (to give my employee a chance to find a replacement) BUT we can negotiate this time down to 0 days if both parts agree.
It seems like this was exactly what happened in the Puma-EG case and I don't see anything wrong with it, at all. If TSL wanted to hold Puma to his contract, they could probably have and EG would have had to wait until it expired. They chose not to, in agreement with Puma. Case closed. Oh thank god, someone with a brain. You are a rare breed. Well look at this, the problem is not Puma joining EG, the problem here is how EG approach the player, not the trading itself. Coach lee respect his players wishes and let him go. Let's make an assumption like this, if EG did not directly offer Puma without TSL's permission, they went to talk to TSL, and they did not give EG the permission to talk to Puma, things could have gone a lot different, Puma wouldn't consider about the money and happily stay back. In some other more professional sports like soccer, this way of approaching the players are even considered to be illegal and the club could be fined Yeah, but the scale and the value of the contract matters, and dictates the level of regulation warranted. It's not like Puma was making millions of dollars. He doesn't have an agent to represent him or protect his interests. Who knows if he was even making minimum wage. Can you imagine how angry you would be if someone wanted to hire you from your current job and was willing to pay you more money, but your employer basically cock blocked it because it would be inconvenient for them? Puma might have a contract, but he shouldn't be treated like a slave.
Well said.
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On July 21 2011 17:52 MrBorto wrote:This seems like the key problem. In the short term how comfortable are korean teams going to be now sending players to events like MLG? The future of these exchanges are literally at stake with this type of business practice.
Not only that, but Koreans as a whole are very nationalistic (I lived in Korea for 2 years, I can safely say that much at least). I doubt that any Korean pros are going to say anything polite about a guy who basically defected to a foreign country.
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On July 21 2011 17:53 FryktSkyene wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:50 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 21 2011 17:48 FryktSkyene wrote:On July 21 2011 17:46 yeint wrote:On July 21 2011 17:41 brachester wrote:Coach lee respect his players wishes and let him go. Not before publicly crucifying him and making himself the victim. The only unprofessionalism that's been shown so far is that. Regardless of the details, if you respect a person, the public face of the end of your professional relationship should be amicable. What about Scoots tweeting about people not knowing facts instead of telling us the facts? Is that professional? Wait for the release, are you honestly dense enough to think there wont be one soon?... Then he shouldn't have said anything at all. Saying something via twitter allows us to see hes awake and able to make a statement. Which won't come for a few more hours at least. It's basic trolling 101. Oh, and it's unprofessional. ???
You should write a strongly worded letter to him and prey to the ESPORTS god that Scoots will become more professional then.
That would have more effect than complaining about it in this thread.
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On July 21 2011 17:51 trikshun wrote: sc2immvp Jung JongHyun 잠자고 일어난 사이에 무슨일이 벌어진거지 What a baller! That's kind of hilarious.
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On July 21 2011 17:51 trikshun wrote: sc2immvp Jung JongHyun 잠자고 일어난 사이에 무슨일이 벌어진거지 What a baller! Could you stop doing that or quote the things properly and give the source/translation? -_-'
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On July 21 2011 17:45 zerglingsfolife wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:44 manicshock wrote:On July 21 2011 17:37 nam nam wrote:On July 21 2011 17:34 manicshock wrote:On July 21 2011 17:31 zerglingsfolife wrote:On July 21 2011 17:31 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 17:30 vojnik wrote:On July 21 2011 17:29 Fionn wrote:On July 21 2011 17:27 vojnik wrote: i see many people are so naive and live in a fairy tale if you think koreans wont do the same having the opurtunity EG had you are soooo wrong
DIMAGA was directly approached by Startale during World vs Korea games in GSL
Many people talk about Puma like he is an object or property, he was given an offer, the thought it trough and decided its a better step for his life and carrier, if there was some breach in contract there are LEGAL tools people can use instead of whining. Source please? Dimaga said that in an interview while he was in the GOM House so uh source please? you saying he said something is not source you know He said it, it might be in kelly milkis justin tv channel in an old vod. There's proof of life on other planets. It's true, just look in that giant dusty library that's deep underground that may exist you just have to look for it. I'll let you do the digging though. Do you only say stuff that you have evidence off close at hand? I swallow my own words. I thought he was going to leave it at that, and not bother finding the VOD. I was going to post it myself, but then you decided to be an asshole.
I don't have the patience to go through the video. Does it have anything different from Torch's situation, which I alluded to like two hours ago (i.e. SK's situation with oGs - Torch represented ST in Korea, but was free to rep. VT Gaming outside)? Because if it doesn't, or if Dimaga didn't provide enough information, then this situation is different.
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On July 21 2011 17:50 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:47 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 17:46 yeint wrote:On July 21 2011 17:41 brachester wrote:Coach lee respect his players wishes and let him go. Not before publicly crucifying him and making himself the victim. The only unprofessionalism that's been shown so far is that. Regardless of the details, if you respect a person, the public face of the end of your professional relationship should be amicable. how in the world did coach lee publicly crucify him? i don't understand, are we looking at the same facts here? By airing the details and calling it "disrespectful", he painted Puma as a money-grubbing traitor and EG as a villain. That's beyond unprofessional. And if you're going to reply with something silly like "but he told the truth!" then just know I'd be done talking to you. He said EG was being disrespectful, yes. No where did he mention anything specific about PuMa apart from "It feels like the player I raised was just stolen away from me." Now, where exactly is the "public humiliation"?
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On July 21 2011 17:53 Azzur wrote: Thread is only almost 3 hrs old and heading to the 100th page
Eagerly awaiting EG's reply. Too bad it's probably like 5 am there now
It's 5 am Eastern Time zone.
As far As I know EG house or w/e is in Cali? Which is 3 hours behind so it would be just about 2 am there.
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On July 21 2011 17:47 SourD wrote:playxp.com article about player's contractPlayxp.com has posted article about this. altho it doesnt speak directly of this matter, they say that CURRENTLY NOBODY HAS CONTRACT BETWEEN TEAM AND PLAYERS. making a move like this possible.
Whoa, somebody please translate more!
Given the first 3 Korean comments were equivalent of "FIRST", I assume it's interesting stuff.
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On July 21 2011 17:53 Iroh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:40 nam nam wrote:On July 21 2011 17:33 Cuddle wrote: I don't understand how this is terrible by either Puma or EG.
I have a job, I'm contracted and have a salary. I get job offers by other companies every now and then, I talk to them about what they offer and when I find something I prefer to my current work situation (be it better pay, better work environment or what have you) I go tell my current boss that I have gotten a better offer and I resign my position. According to basic Swedish employee law (which is in my contract) I have to stay on for 3 month after quitting (to give my employee a chance to find a replacement) BUT we can negotiate this time down to 0 days if both parts agree.
It seems like this was exactly what happened in the Puma-EG case and I don't see anything wrong with it, at all. If TSL wanted to hold Puma to his contract, they could probably have and EG would have had to wait until it expired. They chose not to, in agreement with Puma. Case closed. This is what I've been trying to say only not as well. Of course you could argue that it's a little different for sports but just for the reasons you wrote I can't understand the rage that are being directed at EG. It's very different in sport. If a team works it's butt off to get a player better, finally to see him win over some great players and win something like NASL, only to have him sniped away. Very different to the work place. In any sport/esport the team is working to get these players better for the players and themselves and to have another team just pick them away after the harder work is done should be stopped. EG should of atleast talked to TSL first and shown interest and ask to speak to him. Without something like that starcraft 2 will not be as strong as players will just jump about and things like the GSTL could be dominated by 1 team and every season lineups be completely different (an over exaggeration but it *could* happen with it being like this). Actually everyone in the entire world had a job they started out, learned from and then get promoted or get a better offer. This is no different.
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On July 21 2011 17:49 IcedBacon wrote: I like how 99% of the people posting about this have absolutely no knowledge or experience with how korean culture works. It's not the same guys. The dumb analogy with the employer? Doesn't work when it's between the West and the East. Time to go to bed.
Just because the corporate culture in Asia loves to exploit their cultural propensity for respect of one's elders doesn't make it okay. It's tantamount to defending good ol' boy white male preferentialism because it's rooted in regional cultural values.
The "employer/employee" relationship isn't an analogy, it's a fact. This isn't a martial arts movie, this is real life. People need to earn money to live, and they do so by working for organizations that pay them for it.
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Happens all the time in sports, yeah maybe EG could have talked to the coach but at the end of the day Puma made the choice. You cannot blame EG really for pursuing a great player when they have the resources to pay him what he wants. Hopefully he does well with EG and hopefully TSL rebuilds and keeps doing well as well.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51485 Posts
Wow, 96 pages in under 3hours 0.O Crazy!!
Welcome to EG Puma gl and hf!
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On July 21 2011 17:53 FryktSkyene wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:50 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 21 2011 17:48 FryktSkyene wrote:On July 21 2011 17:46 yeint wrote:On July 21 2011 17:41 brachester wrote:Coach lee respect his players wishes and let him go. Not before publicly crucifying him and making himself the victim. The only unprofessionalism that's been shown so far is that. Regardless of the details, if you respect a person, the public face of the end of your professional relationship should be amicable. What about Scoots tweeting about people not knowing facts instead of telling us the facts? Is that professional? Wait for the release, are you honestly dense enough to think there wont be one soon?... Then he shouldn't have said anything at all. Saying something via twitter allows us to see hes awake and able to make a statement. Which won't come for a few more hours at least. It's basic trolling 101. Oh, and it's unprofessional. ??? Scoots probably isn't the one that will release the press release. That seems to be Alex's job. All scoots is saying is that we don't know the whole story.
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On July 21 2011 17:55 yoshi_yoshi wrote:Whoa, somebody please translate more! Given the first 3 Korean comments were equivalent of "FIRST", I assume it's interesting stuff.
Lets hope this link doesn't get buried to deep before someone can comment on its validity.
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