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On July 22 2011 11:32 LegendaryZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 11:26 zev318 wrote:On July 22 2011 11:23 LegendaryZ wrote:On July 22 2011 11:11 zev318 wrote:
im replying to the guy who just did. he said "only a very very small percentage ever makes a decent living out of it" and "much less enough money to retire and live a good life" I didn't say anything about the NBA. I was talking about professional sports in general. And no, the vast majority of player that play professional sports don't actually make enough out of it to retire and live a good life. Only a select few players that devote their lives to a sport, giving up everything they have, will make it into a major team (most never make it past minor leagues) and out of those that do, fewer still have careers that are long enough to accumulate the type of savings to support you for your life. Just because a career path requires you to throw away everything to follow doesn't mean that you should automatically be set for life for following it. Playing professional sports, even well established ones, is a risk from the moment you set your heart on that goal. Taking up an unestablished sport like eSports is even more of a risk and players know it, but are willing to take that leap on the off chance that they do actually find success. then i guess i misinterpreted ur definition of "professional sports" A minor league baseball player is still a professional baseball player. He just makes a lot less than players who make it to Yankees. There are also more professional basketball leagues than just the NBA so to only look at the minimum NBA salary is misleading. Most professional basketball players don't actually make the minimum NBA salary just like most professional baseball players don't make the minimum MLB salary.
i agree. but we were talking about korean pros which is the top of the top in sc2 professionally, so i assume it would have been correct to compare it to the top of the top in other professional sports. regardless, my point is they should get paid SOMETHING and not just say "oh they get food/housing that's enough" which some people in this thread have. that is my whole point.
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On July 22 2011 11:32 thanhbao86 wrote:
TL is a community site, not a service site, if you think they own you that they have to update information right when it is available. Please just get out of here because you don't deserve what has been brought to you.
Considering that I am a junior TL writer, and you're not; or that I have contributed far more to TL and Esports than you; you're in no position to tell me to get out of TL. Please remember that, even at TL's current state, we still have the Ten Commandments to which the forum is moderated by.
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On July 22 2011 11:30 Jetsfan wrote:
I keep seeing posts like "all the Korean teams are gonna be locking down their players now" etc etc. Who is to say that these players will want to sign these new contracts? Or be bound to any type of league. I am not familiar with the BW scene but from what I have heard it's basically a concentration camp.
Honestly, what does a SC2 Korean team have to offer? Some food? Shelter? One extremely difficult tournament to train for? The western scene is thriving. The Korean players are taking notice while their teams are not, relying on loyalty, verbal contracts.
Seems to me the Korean teams are doing whats best for the team, and not really looking out for their players.
So if you were a korean pro gamer, and had the option of joinng a foreign team, what would you decide.
Be a slave, or live like a rockstar??
You can easily contract a "we shelter & feed you" contract that's very open ended. The problem, it seems, with the KeSPA contracts, is they're iron clad & nasty. You can have the unwritten agreement that the SC2 teams have, just written down.
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On July 22 2011 11:32 DrNK.Zeal wrote:
Anybody think it could have been EG's intention to circumvent the coach so that they couldn't propose one of those outrageous 'transfering fees' AG was talking about?
what transfer fee would u have to pay for someone who's not in a contract.....
alex was most likely speaking about the other korean pros they have asked about who are in a contract with a korean pro team.
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On July 22 2011 11:30 Jetsfan wrote:
I keep seeing posts like "all the Korean teams are gonna be locking down their players now" etc etc. Who is to say that these players will want to sign these new contracts? Or be bound to any type of league. I am not familiar with the BW scene but from what I have heard it's basically a concentration camp.
This is quite wrong auctally. Yes progamers in bw are required to have rigid work times and practice times. Its not, you have to play 10 hours a day or else. There is a normal 8 hour a day practice regime that these player must play. This is too keep them improving and training.
Many play 10 plus hours because they want to get better. There are lunch times and certain times for everything.
Its a more rigid life. But its no different than many other jobs. you work 8 hours a day, and have designated times for everything. None of that is different. The difference is the amount of effort that has to go into a single project (match in this case) that many players work overtime.
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On July 22 2011 11:32 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 11:30 Jetsfan wrote:
I keep seeing posts like "all the Korean teams are gonna be locking down their players now" etc etc. Who is to say that these players will want to sign these new contracts? Or be bound to any type of league. I am not familiar with the BW scene but from what I have heard it's basically a concentration camp.
Honestly, what does a SC2 Korean team have to offer? Some food? Shelter? One extremely difficult tournament to train for? The western scene is thriving. The Korean players are taking notice while their teams are not, relying on loyalty, verbal contracts.
Seems to me the Korean teams are doing whats best for the team, and not really looking out for their players.
So if you were a korean pro gamer, and had the option of joinng a foreign team, what would you decide.
Be a slave, or live like a rockstar?? i could see some korean pros signing just cause its the culturally right thing to do. not necessarily the best for themselves.
I guess the real question is will players who are presented with a contract use this situation as leverage, or a way out of the loyalty to their team?
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It's not about the legality, it's about the ethics. In ANY sport, teams talk to teams first for permission to speak to players.
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On July 22 2011 11:35 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 11:32 DrNK.Zeal wrote:
Anybody think it could have been EG's intention to circumvent the coach so that they couldn't propose one of those outrageous 'transfering fees' AG was talking about? what transfer fee would u have to pay for someone who's not in a contract..... alex was most likely speaking about the other korean pros they have asked about who are in a contract with a korean pro team.
I imagine they could have drawn something up just so AG had to buy the contract. I dunno.
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On July 22 2011 11:23 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 11:15 zev318 wrote:On July 22 2011 11:10 Roggay wrote:On July 22 2011 11:08 zev318 wrote:On July 22 2011 11:06 NexUmbra wrote:On July 22 2011 11:05 zev318 wrote:On July 22 2011 11:02 LegendaryZ wrote:On July 22 2011 10:59 Nausea wrote:
That would assume that the person got an education, work experience and that there are jobs available. The purpose of moving esports forward is to make it so that players can live off it, and once they retire live a good life and have money saved up. Like any other professional sport.
Is this a bad joke or do you have absolutely no idea how other professional sports work? It's only a very very small percentage that ever make a decent living out of it, much less enough money to retire and live a good life with the money they saved up. It's a high risk "career" and people signing up for it generally know what they're getting into and accept those risks. u mean the NBA players who make like 10 million dollars a year can't retire off that and live a good life? even entry level professional sports people make more than enough. injuries are covered, its not like they dont get paid if they're injured >Implying every player in the NBA makes 10 million dollars a year. http://www.insidehoops.com/minimum-nba-salary.shtmlur saying u can't live off of 473k a year? Ok, i have to correct you here. A lot of pro are not making much in their respective sports (a basketball player in europe for example won't make much money in general). And if you get injured, it pretty much means you have to search for another job. lets say u get injured year 1 and u were signed for 1 year only. if u get injured, im assuming u still get paid, cause u got injured while working. and lets say its career ending, so at least very least u still have 200k (whatever is left after tax) to still get an education or whatever u choose to do. and is it just me, but if i had 200k, and i had no job, i think that'd still be enough for me live off of for like 3-4 years easy. people tend to go a bit out of control when they have this much money so it's not as easy as you think it is
Still, 200k is plenty enough to live off of for many many years. And I mean live off. Not live an extravagant lifestyle. I know some of the richer TL members will think that money will be gone in 6 months and can't possibly imagine a life with less.
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EG is now insane! Puma + idra+ Machine + iNcontrol............this is sooo awesome. it just seems that TSL is just sour that Puma left. who wouldn't be?
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On July 22 2011 11:36 Jetsfan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 11:32 zev318 wrote:On July 22 2011 11:30 Jetsfan wrote:
I keep seeing posts like "all the Korean teams are gonna be locking down their players now" etc etc. Who is to say that these players will want to sign these new contracts? Or be bound to any type of league. I am not familiar with the BW scene but from what I have heard it's basically a concentration camp.
Honestly, what does a SC2 Korean team have to offer? Some food? Shelter? One extremely difficult tournament to train for? The western scene is thriving. The Korean players are taking notice while their teams are not, relying on loyalty, verbal contracts.
Seems to me the Korean teams are doing whats best for the team, and not really looking out for their players.
So if you were a korean pro gamer, and had the option of joinng a foreign team, what would you decide.
Be a slave, or live like a rockstar?? i could see some korean pros signing just cause its the culturally right thing to do. not necessarily the best for themselves. I guess the real question is will players who are presented with a contract use this situation as leverage, or a way out of the loyalty to their team?
i really hope if they are not ok with the conditions and length of the contract, they dont feel obligated to sign that's all.
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On July 22 2011 11:34 thanhbao86 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 11:32 DrNK.Zeal wrote:
Anybody think it could have been EG's intention to circumvent the coach so that they couldn't propose one of those outrageous 'transfering fees' AG was talking about? Very likely. In fact, I just don't trust them in this whole situation.
Why? Even if TSL said we want <insert ridiculous fee here> there was no stick that TSL had to enforce the demand.
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Has EG issued a media release about this yet? I visited their site but all I found was a guy congratulating EG on picking up Puma.
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On July 22 2011 11:37 DrNK.Zeal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 11:35 zev318 wrote:On July 22 2011 11:32 DrNK.Zeal wrote:
Anybody think it could have been EG's intention to circumvent the coach so that they couldn't propose one of those outrageous 'transfering fees' AG was talking about? what transfer fee would u have to pay for someone who's not in a contract..... alex was most likely speaking about the other korean pros they have asked about who are in a contract with a korean pro team. I imagine they could have drawn something up just so AG had to buy the contract. I dunno.
it would be quite the feat considering EG already knew Puma had no contract. Puma would've been like lol i didnt sign anything. and even if Puma did TSL a favor by signing a contract that outlined a transfer fee, he would probably look at how much and if its a reasonable amount (i hope).
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On July 22 2011 11:38 VillageBC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 11:34 thanhbao86 wrote:On July 22 2011 11:32 DrNK.Zeal wrote:
Anybody think it could have been EG's intention to circumvent the coach so that they couldn't propose one of those outrageous 'transfering fees' AG was talking about? Very likely. In fact, I just don't trust them in this whole situation. Why? Even if TSL said we want <insert ridiculous fee here> there was no stick that TSL had to enforce the demand.
Exactly. Puma was not a part of TSL, he was rendering his services in return for some meals and a place to stay. Without a written contract Puma was free to do whatever he felt was best for him 1 month in or 10.
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On July 22 2011 11:40 Bart wrote:
Has EG issued a media release about this yet? I visited their site but all I found was a guy congratulating EG on picking up Puma.
there's no official statement because Puma isn't an official EG member yet(hasn't signed contract)
the only "media release" said by an EG executive was what was said on weapon of choice that was on earlier.
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On July 22 2011 11:40 Bart wrote:
Has EG issued a media release about this yet? I visited their site but all I found was a guy congratulating EG on picking up Puma.
nothing to say, no contracts have been signed so their is no news to announce. PlayXP just put the cart in front of the horses and made it sound like a complete transaction
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On July 22 2011 11:40 Bart wrote:
Has EG issued a media release about this yet? I visited their site but all I found was a guy congratulating EG on picking up Puma.
EG's public relations department doesn't seem to be doing a really good job here. Even if nothing has been finalized yet, you would expect some sort of official statement (Weapon of Choice doesn't count here) to state their position, correct any misunderstandings, and quell the speculation. The fact that they haven't released any written statement to that effect at all is just bizarre to me.
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On July 22 2011 11:40 Jetsfan wrote:
Exactly. Puma was not a part of TSL, he was rendering his services in return for some meals and a place to stay. Without a written contract Puma was free to do whatever he felt was best for him 1 month in or 10.
Well, I would say he was part of TSL. But in the same way any employee is employed by a company. Free to leave when a better opportunity presents itself.
Jets Fan, Winnipeg Jets?
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EG is dead to me. I like Idra's Insight and Gameplay when it gets to a late game and will still watch and support, but i can only shake my head when thinking about this Company.
I don't think there were any vicious thoughts by approaching Puma. The Problem is that they were doing it the American way. This won't work in most Asian Countrys and far-east Europe. You have to show respect (what they think respect is) and follow their customs.
When Milkis said EG should write an apology and Alex was against it it showed the whole Weapon of Choice was for nothing. This has nothing to do with being wrong, it's an etiquette.
But fine walk around with your cowboy boots and guns and do it your way. The sad part is they don't need Korea, like djWHEAT said esports is big enough in the west. (for now)
Also for the Journalism thing. Where exactly do you live? There is no nonbiased jornalism even in the biggest Media ...especially there. And i don't think he should be obligated to get in contact to both sides. Like he said, TSL responded while some in EG rather said "no comment"
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EPT
