|
On July 22 2011 04:43 [Atomic]Peace wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 04:31 Soap wrote:On July 22 2011 04:26 [Atomic]Peace wrote:On July 22 2011 04:23 JWD wrote:On July 22 2011 04:22 [Atomic]Peace wrote:On July 22 2011 04:19 LegendaryZ wrote:
I'm concerned about the effects this event is going to have. Some people seem to believe that this kind of thing is somehow positive for eSports and will help it grow because players will have more power to guarantee themselves better conditions. I disagree with this and believe that it may very well negatively affect the eSports scene.
Up until this point, the Starcraft 2 scene has largely been run on trust and cooperation. This is what has allowed for the relative lack of regulation within teams and across leagues. EG in this instance has essentially abused that trust and taken advantage of it by poaching a player at a foreign event. You can certainly fault TSL for lacking foresight and not mandating a contract, but this type of naivete is pretty much what many people praised about the SC2 scene. We like to bash KeSPA for its heavy regulations and control over players, but that's exactly what people faulting TSL are arguing should be the norm while at the same time not wanting such a regulatory body to come into fruition.
I'm afraid that a KeSPA-like organization or at least that type of atmosphere is going to be created in response to this, effectively forcing players into contracts and heavily regulating their freedoms in an effort for teams to ensure the protection of their investments. While what EG has done here isn't necessarily wrong, it can't be denied that they've effectively "changed the game" as far as the way teams and players interact goes and the statement that Manager Lee made about measures being put into place in order to prevent this from happening in the future is an immediate indicator of that. The sweet and innocent SC2 scene that we've known so far has all of a sudden become serious business with all of the atmosphere of distrust that comes with it.
It may make the scene more legitimate and closer to the real sports leagues that we see today, but I wonder if that's what we really want for SC2. After all, KeSPA was undeniably an effective organization whose methods, while somewhat ruthless, are tried and true in the business sense (EG would have never been able to pull this on one of their teams or players). Honestly though, when you consider this, don't we want teams to be a little bit more naive and trusting if only for the sake of the players? KeSPA2 will only happen in the players themselves accept it. And I think they wont, given the treatment of players under KeSPA. What's your basis for this statement (I'm legitimately curious; not a knock)? I haven't ever heard that KeSPA was created or ever promulgated rules with the consent of the players. My understanding is that KeSPA is an organization founded and controlled by the Korean government and the team sponsors, not the players. There are two major differences between BW and SC2: (1) the players know how bad KeSPA worked out for them and they might resist it this time and (2) the players have two secondary markets with at least as much money (US and Europe). BW players got kind of screwed because you had to stay in Korea and put up with KeSPA in order to have a career. But in SC2 you can have a career in US and Europe. KeSPA worked wonderfully to the players, in comparison to the current SC2 scene. The top BW salary is 10x more than of TSL, and that's from a 13 years old game. B-teamers don't make money on either game anyway. The fact that top BW salaries are what they are is due to BWs popularity, not due to KeSPA. In fact, KeSPA is probably holding the salaries down. If top players were allowed to have agents I'm guessing they could negotiate for higher salaries.
that's pure speculation with out any true accounting of Kespa's books. If they knew how to Market SC better, that is Kespa, with bigger TV's more Stadium audiences for round of 8 matches on. Charge Pay per view. or have a SC have a superbowl of SC every year. stuff like that will bring in money. and eventually, that will filter down to the players, if the players decide to unionize.
We are at the beginning stages of a revolution in sports entertainment. In the 20th century, the revolution started with Baseball. And that sport grew into a goliath, a titan of an industry. But Baseball in the 20th century of course had their shares of corruption, scandals, and players suffered with their blood sweat and tears to make the sport grow to what Baseball is today. SC and future RTS games will probably follow the same trajectory as Baseball or Basketball. And in 60 years, you'll have some kid from China that will rake in 20 mil a year from sponsorships and salary from the team.
|
On July 22 2011 04:47 mprs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 04:44 JoeSchmoe wrote:
lol so apparently the NASL finals is a recruitment ground for EG? Looks like they approached Sen, and other korean players as well. Stupid as hell considering Sen IS under contract. Sen's contract is done. This is why he is trying to decide if he wants to join the TeSL or stay in Fnatic and play internationally.
Sen's contract did not expire. It expires in august.
|
On July 22 2011 04:32 PHC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 04:27 StatikKhaos wrote:On July 22 2011 04:25 PHC wrote:On July 22 2011 04:24 Sein wrote:
EG, what do you say to TSL's accusation that you lied? Where is your secondary damage control team for the damage control team? What bothers me the most are the tweets coming from EG's team manager: SirScoots SirScoots I see esports journalism continues its fine tradition of no fact checking! Bravo! Bravo! /me rolls eyes 11 hours ago @thedevilshorse @OrangeMilkis Actually, I was not talking about them either...everyone assumes to "know" everything these days.  11 hours ago @thirnaz umadbro? 9 hours ago @ZinZio what does laughing at your comment do then?  3 hours ago @ZinZio Then you should not be so quick to judge without hearing all the facts eh? Just a thought or take jabs and hate instead I guess. 3 hours ago Lol there we go with one sidedness, did you read what thimaz said? you can't just post one side of a conversation Yes, I did. thirnaz adam @SirScoots you have yo be the biggest fucking joke of all time within esports; such a sad character you are. 10 hours ago ZinZio Zach @SirScoots Your response to @thirnaz just goes to show how professional EG has become.. 3 hours ago The fact that he's not addressing the issue and is replying to hateful comments with "umadbro?" with millions of SC fans around the world watching and hundreds of Korean progaming careers are affected because of his behavior....
Do the whole thing
UncleKerm Xavier Sadoulet
@SirScoots Hey Scoot is there any plan to get EG's side of the "Puma acquisition" ?
Sirscoots
@UncleKerm of course
|
On July 22 2011 04:36 legaton wrote:
Liquid - oGs: partnership. Everyone is happy about it.
SK Gaming - oGs: sponsorship for Nada and MC in foreign tournaments. Everyones happy about it
Fanatic - Rain: recruitment of a new player. Some critics against Rain for leaving GSL so abruptly. No critics to Fanatic.
FXO - Fou : buy-out after friendly negotiation. Everyone is happy about it.
EG - TSL/Puma: recruitment of a player behind his team's back, lies about Puma contacting them first. TSL/Korean community is pissed off.
People can claim "that's how capitalism work" all they want. Doesn't change the fact it is a shitty argument. Fanatic, Liquid, FXO, Sk Gaming are all pro structures working under free market conditions (aka capitalism). They had no problem negotiating their way through koreans team and players and founding acceptable agreements for all parties involved. What EG did just shows they have a short-sighted management and poor PR.
PuMa was not contracted to a team. He was unemployed. A free agent.
|
On July 22 2011 04:47 caelym wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 04:36 legaton wrote:
Liquid - oGs: partnership. Everyone is happy about it.
SK Gaming - oGs: sponsorship for Nada and MC in foreign tournaments. Everyones happy about it
Fanatic - Rain: recruitment of a new player. Some critics against Rain for leaving GSL so abruptly. No critics to Fanatic.
FXO - Fou : buy-out after friendly negotiation. Everyone is happy about it.
EG - TSL/Puma: recruitment of a player behind his team's back, lies about Puma contacting them first. TSL/Korean community is pissed off.
People can claim "that's how capitalism work" all they want. Doesn't change the fact it is a shitty argument. Fanatic, Liquid, FXO, Sk Gaming are all pro structures working under free market conditions (aka capitalism). They had no problem negotiating their way through koreans team and players and founding acceptable agreements for all parties involved. What EG did just shows they have a short-sighted management and poor PR.
EG's PR has got to be one of the worst. I think a big part of it is their holier-than-thou/community-is-full-of-whiny-bitches/come-at-me-bro attitude. They really need to work on improving their community relations, but after each incident as like and ITG, it becomes a PR nightmare, and it seems like they don't learn from past mistakes.
Mind I ask what the ITG incident was ?
|
|
|
On July 22 2011 04:42 SafeAsCheese wrote:
This thread has come full circle, same arguments on page 20, 50, 100, 150, 200... etc
I think that's "running in circles" rather than "coming full circle". We don't stop at one lap 
|
On July 22 2011 04:43 [Atomic]Peace wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 04:31 Soap wrote:On July 22 2011 04:26 [Atomic]Peace wrote:On July 22 2011 04:23 JWD wrote:On July 22 2011 04:22 [Atomic]Peace wrote:On July 22 2011 04:19 LegendaryZ wrote:
I'm concerned about the effects this event is going to have. Some people seem to believe that this kind of thing is somehow positive for eSports and will help it grow because players will have more power to guarantee themselves better conditions. I disagree with this and believe that it may very well negatively affect the eSports scene.
Up until this point, the Starcraft 2 scene has largely been run on trust and cooperation. This is what has allowed for the relative lack of regulation within teams and across leagues. EG in this instance has essentially abused that trust and taken advantage of it by poaching a player at a foreign event. You can certainly fault TSL for lacking foresight and not mandating a contract, but this type of naivete is pretty much what many people praised about the SC2 scene. We like to bash KeSPA for its heavy regulations and control over players, but that's exactly what people faulting TSL are arguing should be the norm while at the same time not wanting such a regulatory body to come into fruition.
I'm afraid that a KeSPA-like organization or at least that type of atmosphere is going to be created in response to this, effectively forcing players into contracts and heavily regulating their freedoms in an effort for teams to ensure the protection of their investments. While what EG has done here isn't necessarily wrong, it can't be denied that they've effectively "changed the game" as far as the way teams and players interact goes and the statement that Manager Lee made about measures being put into place in order to prevent this from happening in the future is an immediate indicator of that. The sweet and innocent SC2 scene that we've known so far has all of a sudden become serious business with all of the atmosphere of distrust that comes with it.
It may make the scene more legitimate and closer to the real sports leagues that we see today, but I wonder if that's what we really want for SC2. After all, KeSPA was undeniably an effective organization whose methods, while somewhat ruthless, are tried and true in the business sense (EG would have never been able to pull this on one of their teams or players). Honestly though, when you consider this, don't we want teams to be a little bit more naive and trusting if only for the sake of the players? KeSPA2 will only happen in the players themselves accept it. And I think they wont, given the treatment of players under KeSPA. What's your basis for this statement (I'm legitimately curious; not a knock)? I haven't ever heard that KeSPA was created or ever promulgated rules with the consent of the players. My understanding is that KeSPA is an organization founded and controlled by the Korean government and the team sponsors, not the players. There are two major differences between BW and SC2: (1) the players know how bad KeSPA worked out for them and they might resist it this time and (2) the players have two secondary markets with at least as much money (US and Europe). BW players got kind of screwed because you had to stay in Korea and put up with KeSPA in order to have a career. But in SC2 you can have a career in US and Europe. KeSPA worked wonderfully to the players, in comparison to the current SC2 scene. The top BW salary is 10x more than of TSL, and that's from a 13 years old game. B-teamers don't make money on either game anyway. The fact that top BW salaries are what they are is due to BWs popularity, not due to KeSPA. In fact, KeSPA is probably holding the salaries down. If top players were allowed to have agents I'm guessing they could negotiate for higher salaries.
This is a rather important point that many have ignored in lieu of simply considering TSL the victim here. In every team sports example presented, players have AGENTS, legally savvy individuals who represent them and allow them to negotiate with teams on an even level. The fact that players do not have agents speaks to the compromised position they put themselves in when signing with a team; its one versus a whole organization, one with members who no doubt are quite well versed in the practices of KESPA and related authorities. I'd like to see what Puma himself has to say, especially considering that the team manager effectively called him and EG liars for insisting that Puma initiated the conversation.
|
On July 22 2011 04:40 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 04:37 Nastiness wrote:On July 22 2011 03:31 DBOWNIZZ wrote:
My god, IF PUMA HAD A CONTRACT HE WOULD NOT BE ALOUD TO LEAVE TSL....THATS THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF A CONTRACT, DUHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
User was warned for this post They break contracts all the time in counter-strike, with little to none aftermath. Esport is sucha phoony joke Actually there was quite a shitstorm in the CS scene during the fnatic SK drama over delphan i think it was. fnatic and SK owners were talking shit over twitter, cs fans were raging pretty hard at SK for what they did im pretty sure. Wasnt too long ago either.
Then a potential sponsor who actually has a clue about business laugh about that shit instead of getting interested on investing. It's the manager's job to do proper valuation of his players; if I believe one is worth a dollar to my organization, I set the early termination penalty at two dollars so we never lose. If that player breakouts and now is worth ten dollars, I must rush to renegotiate his contract and he deservedly gets paid more. If there are "rules" preventing transfers we get things like the best zerg in the world threatening to retire to get paid more.
|
On July 22 2011 04:48 chatuka wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 04:43 [Atomic]Peace wrote:On July 22 2011 04:31 Soap wrote:On July 22 2011 04:26 [Atomic]Peace wrote:On July 22 2011 04:23 JWD wrote:On July 22 2011 04:22 [Atomic]Peace wrote:On July 22 2011 04:19 LegendaryZ wrote:
I'm concerned about the effects this event is going to have. Some people seem to believe that this kind of thing is somehow positive for eSports and will help it grow because players will have more power to guarantee themselves better conditions. I disagree with this and believe that it may very well negatively affect the eSports scene.
Up until this point, the Starcraft 2 scene has largely been run on trust and cooperation. This is what has allowed for the relative lack of regulation within teams and across leagues. EG in this instance has essentially abused that trust and taken advantage of it by poaching a player at a foreign event. You can certainly fault TSL for lacking foresight and not mandating a contract, but this type of naivete is pretty much what many people praised about the SC2 scene. We like to bash KeSPA for its heavy regulations and control over players, but that's exactly what people faulting TSL are arguing should be the norm while at the same time not wanting such a regulatory body to come into fruition.
I'm afraid that a KeSPA-like organization or at least that type of atmosphere is going to be created in response to this, effectively forcing players into contracts and heavily regulating their freedoms in an effort for teams to ensure the protection of their investments. While what EG has done here isn't necessarily wrong, it can't be denied that they've effectively "changed the game" as far as the way teams and players interact goes and the statement that Manager Lee made about measures being put into place in order to prevent this from happening in the future is an immediate indicator of that. The sweet and innocent SC2 scene that we've known so far has all of a sudden become serious business with all of the atmosphere of distrust that comes with it.
It may make the scene more legitimate and closer to the real sports leagues that we see today, but I wonder if that's what we really want for SC2. After all, KeSPA was undeniably an effective organization whose methods, while somewhat ruthless, are tried and true in the business sense (EG would have never been able to pull this on one of their teams or players). Honestly though, when you consider this, don't we want teams to be a little bit more naive and trusting if only for the sake of the players? KeSPA2 will only happen in the players themselves accept it. And I think they wont, given the treatment of players under KeSPA. What's your basis for this statement (I'm legitimately curious; not a knock)? I haven't ever heard that KeSPA was created or ever promulgated rules with the consent of the players. My understanding is that KeSPA is an organization founded and controlled by the Korean government and the team sponsors, not the players. There are two major differences between BW and SC2: (1) the players know how bad KeSPA worked out for them and they might resist it this time and (2) the players have two secondary markets with at least as much money (US and Europe). BW players got kind of screwed because you had to stay in Korea and put up with KeSPA in order to have a career. But in SC2 you can have a career in US and Europe. KeSPA worked wonderfully to the players, in comparison to the current SC2 scene. The top BW salary is 10x more than of TSL, and that's from a 13 years old game. B-teamers don't make money on either game anyway. The fact that top BW salaries are what they are is due to BWs popularity, not due to KeSPA. In fact, KeSPA is probably holding the salaries down. If top players were allowed to have agents I'm guessing they could negotiate for higher salaries. that's pure speculation with out any true accounting of Kespa's books. If they knew how to Market SC better, that is Kespa, with bigger TV's more Stadium audiences for round of 8 matches on. Charge Pay per view. or have a SC have a superbowl of SC every year. stuff like that will bring in money. and eventually, that will filter down to the players, if the players decide to unionize. We are at the beginning stages of a revolution in sports entertainment. In the 20th century, the revolution started with Baseball. And that sport grew into a goliath, a titan of an industry. But Baseball in the 20th century of course had their shares of corruption, scandals, and players suffered with their blood sweat and tears to make the sport grow to what Baseball is today. SC and future RTS games will probably follow the same trajectory as Baseball or Basketball. And in 60 years, you'll have some kid from China that will rake in 20 mil a year from sponsorships and salary from the team.
It's not pure speculation. Monopolies result in inefficient markets.
|
EG cut out the middle man. This is some big deal? I just don't see it.
If you're not under contract, I expect you to do what you think is best for yourself. Puma obviously chose EG because they could offer more at this time. EG had no reason to contact TSL.
What could they have gained from doing so, other than perhaps less of a story from people overreacting? The outcome would presumably be the same.
|
On July 22 2011 04:47 Sqq wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 04:36 legaton wrote:
Liquid - oGs: partnership. Everyone is happy about it.
SK Gaming - oGs: sponsorship for Nada and MC in foreign tournaments. Everyones happy about it
Fanatic - Rain: recruitment of a new player. Some critics against Rain for leaving GSL so abruptly. No critics to Fanatic.
FXO - Fou : buy-out after friendly negotiation. Everyone is happy about it.
EG - TSL/Puma: recruitment of a player behind his team's back, lies about Puma contacting them first. TSL/Korean community is pissed off.
People can claim "that's how capitalism work" all they want. Doesn't change the fact it is a shitty argument. Fanatic, Liquid, FXO, Sk Gaming are all pro structures working under free market conditions (aka capitalism). They had no problem negotiating their way through koreans team and players and founding acceptable agreements for all parties involved. What EG did just shows they have a short-sighted management and poor PR.
Lol. How do you manage to write this shit without stopping for one second and realizing how awful of an post it would turn out to be ? Liquid\ oGs is nothing about a player buy. Their relationship with oGs has nothing to do with the EG case in any way or similarities at all. Fnatic\ Rain - Rain decided to leave his team. Fnatic picked up a player that stood without a team, shouldn't matter if he was Korean or European or whatnot. It was just picking up a player without a team. FXO \ FOU. Fou approach Fxo, asked if they would help them out, FOU becomes FXO - division Korea - nothing to do with this EG\ Puma at all. SK \ MC - Did you even read the thread about that ? People where (and probably still are) bitching like hell over that deal. Go read about it please. All those 4 have nothing in common with this case of player transfer at all. Why the need to try and shed a shitty light at EG when you obviously have no clue what you are talking about. It also seems like TSLs OWN coach said that Puma was not under any contract. That means EG (or any other team for that matter that is looking to recruit) has the posibility to ask the player if he wants to join. Thats totally legit and smart. And how is it short-sighted ? The sponsors will go bonkers over the fact they have the NASL winner (and on top of that a top Korean) on their team. It was a smart move by the EG management and it can only bring them more results & more money through sponsorships. I'm not even sure you understand the economic terms you use mean, or even understand economics & marketing all together.
The fact that you didn't get what his post was about...tells us that you don't really know wtf is going in on "either" ^^
|
On July 22 2011 04:31 sereniity wrote:
I'm so tired of all this honor bullshit going on... People have to realize that the teams are running a business, this is business, business involves money.
Realizing it is one thing. Liking it and even approving of it is another.
This has nothing to do with money. Business principles are basically trash in general, modeled on greed, deception and abuse, and when those principles are applied without limitations and moral considerations, it's only normal that people will absolutely hate it.
Why don't "business" controversies like these surround other teams? Take Liquid for example, the team is also ran as a business, they have sponsors, they need money, they deal with money and they spend money on regular basis. They are far more successful than EG results wise, yet we never get any similar bullshit from Liquid, they have no stains on their profile as a professional team (while EG has accumulated a few by now). So which business do you think is ran better?
The bottom line is - you can run a successful business without being a dick to others. In the long run, it also pays off to not have people hate your guts for making "great business decisions" as well.
|
On July 22 2011 04:43 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 04:42 Nastiness wrote:On July 22 2011 04:40 zeru wrote:On July 22 2011 04:37 Nastiness wrote:On July 22 2011 03:31 DBOWNIZZ wrote:
My god, IF PUMA HAD A CONTRACT HE WOULD NOT BE ALOUD TO LEAVE TSL....THATS THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF A CONTRACT, DUHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
User was warned for this post They break contracts all the time in counter-strike, with little to none aftermath. Esport is sucha phoony joke Actually there was quite a shitstorm in the CS scene during the fnatic SK drama over delphan i think it was. fnatic and SK owners were talking shit over twitter, cs fans were raging pretty hard at SK for what they did im pretty sure. Fan rage yeah, thats all its ever been. But no legal repercussions. But has there ever been legal repercussions over ANYTHING in esports? only thing i can think of is unpaid prizemoney from tournaments to the winners.
The Match Fixing scandal would like to have a word with you sir.
|
On July 22 2011 04:32 PHC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 04:27 StatikKhaos wrote:On July 22 2011 04:25 PHC wrote:On July 22 2011 04:24 Sein wrote:
EG, what do you say to TSL's accusation that you lied? Where is your secondary damage control team for the damage control team? What bothers me the most are the tweets coming from EG's team manager: SirScoots SirScoots I see esports journalism continues its fine tradition of no fact checking! Bravo! Bravo! /me rolls eyes 11 hours ago @thedevilshorse @OrangeMilkis Actually, I was not talking about them either...everyone assumes to "know" everything these days. 11 hours ago @thirnaz umadbro? 9 hours ago @ZinZio what does laughing at your comment do then? 3 hours ago @ZinZio Then you should not be so quick to judge without hearing all the facts eh? Just a thought or take jabs and hate instead I guess. 3 hours ago Lol there we go with one sidedness, did you read what thimaz said? you can't just post one side of a conversation Yes, I did. thirnaz adam @SirScoots you have yo be the biggest fucking joke of all time within esports; such a sad character you are. 10 hours ago ZinZio Zach @SirScoots Your response to @thirnaz just goes to show how professional EG has become.. 3 hours ago The fact that he's not addressing the issue and is replying to hateful comments with "umadbro?" with millions of SC fans around the world watching and hundreds of Korean progaming careers are affected because of his behavior....
By the sounds of it the only change this may bring about for Korean Pro-gamers is that they will get contracts to sign from their teams, which is only a positive thing. Even if Puma did have a contract with TSL EG aren't obligated to talk to TSL.
There seems to be a lot of EG bashing going on here when all I really see here is that pay and conditions offered in western teams seems to be light years ahead of what is on the table in Korea. If this move means more Koreans have contracts with their teams then everybody wins, Korean teams will get compensation when players get out of their contracts and players have more security.
It's very easy to forget that business decisions are what drives the game we love forward, not everything will be cut and dry and not every decision is going to be open to scrutiny by the community, nor should it be.
|
On July 22 2011 04:45 Xeris wrote:
Differences:
- SK presumably negotiated this deal directly with oGs since there wasn't really any outcry (one can only assume oGs would have made a big deal if SK went behind their backs).
- Rain left TSL team weeks before he joined Fnatic. He expressly said in the article about him leaving TSL that he wanted to join a foreign team and play foreign events, so it wasn't a big surprise.
- fOu and FXO had been working together and built a nice relationship, so the FXO acquisition of fOu isn't really a big shocker
In this case however, PuMa was obviously still a member of TSL. EG had full knowledge that he was on the team, and decided to negotiate a deal with him anyways.
Or Puma wanted a new team, and insisted that he be allowed to leave. We really cannot know at this point.
|
Kind of on the fence on this one.
It seems as Puma was not under contract and wanted to play for EG.
While completely pumas choice still a shame EG could not have talked to TSL ahead of time, even if just to inform them they have interested in obtaining one of there players.
I See this type of thing happening a lot more, as there seems to be tons of money and sponsorship states side where besides the GSL there are not many options in Korea.
The real question is will puma move out of Korea to the EG team house? seems it would be hard to practice with your team given the time zones and latency.
|
On July 22 2011 04:50 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
EG cut out the middle man. This is some big deal? I just don't see it.
If you're not under contract, I expect you to do what you think is best for yourself. Puma obviously chose EG because they could offer more at this time. EG had no reason to contact TSL.
What could they have gained from doing so, other than perhaps less of a story from people overreacting? The outcome would presumably be the same.
Listen to this man.
|
On July 22 2011 04:29 Bigpet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 04:22 [Atomic]Peace wrote:On July 22 2011 04:19 LegendaryZ wrote:
I'm concerned about the effects this event is going to have. Some people seem to believe that this kind of thing is somehow positive for eSports and will help it grow because players will have more power to guarantee themselves better conditions. I disagree with this and believe that it may very well negatively affect the eSports scene.
Up until this point, the Starcraft 2 scene has largely been run on trust and cooperation. This is what has allowed for the relative lack of regulation within teams and across leagues. EG in this instance has essentially abused that trust and taken advantage of it by poaching a player at a foreign event. You can certainly fault TSL for lacking foresight and not mandating a contract, but this type of naivete is pretty much what many people praised about the SC2 scene. We like to bash KeSPA for its heavy regulations and control over players, but that's exactly what people faulting TSL are arguing should be the norm while at the same time not wanting such a regulatory body to come into fruition.
I'm afraid that a KeSPA-like organization or at least that type of atmosphere is going to be created in response to this, effectively forcing players into contracts and heavily regulating their freedoms in an effort for teams to ensure the protection of their investments. While what EG has done here isn't necessarily wrong, it can't be denied that they've effectively "changed the game" as far as the way teams and players interact goes and the statement that Manager Lee made about measures being put into place in order to prevent this from happening in the future is an immediate indicator of that. The sweet and innocent SC2 scene that we've known so far has all of a sudden become serious business with all of the atmosphere of distrust that comes with it.
It may make the scene more legitimate and closer to the real sports leagues that we see today, but I wonder if that's what we really want for SC2. After all, KeSPA was undeniably an effective organization whose methods, while somewhat ruthless, are tried and true in the business sense (EG would have never been able to pull this on one of their teams or players). Honestly though, when you consider this, don't we want teams to be a little bit more naive and trusting if only for the sake of the players? KeSPA2 will only happen in the players themselves accept it. And I think they wont, given the treatment of players under KeSPA. You mean KeSPA2 will only happen if the coaches convince GSL to make membership mandatory or do you really think all the pros would say "fuck GSL, I'm gonna make money with streaming and foreign tourneys"?
Yeah I do think players will say that if they are subjected to an organization as draconian as KeSPA. Korea was your only option in BW. SC2 is international and actually pays better outside Korea.
|
I really hope EG comes out and makes a solid statement and defends this action with truths, and can somehow prove to us that this went down legit and was a misunderstanding. Otherwise, I would say that the community should adopt a new term called "The EG Rule" once a KeSPA 2 forms or a major overhaul of the relationships between players in a team house and their managers happens.
As some others said in this thread, it was nice to have an innocent trust system between teams and their players, allowing them freedom from all the red tape and to merely focus on having fun and winning games. All the while team management and owners put in their hard earned dollars and efforts into developing players and offering them a place to play, stay and learn.
For the record I like EG's players (incontrol, idra, axslav) and my opinions are based solely on management and not the players. The players are a great group of guys and I love watching their games.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
