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Remember how FruitDealer and Trickster just left TSL?
Supposedly they too would have been under contract and yet they were able to leave freely instead of waiting out their contract before joining another team.
Did they also ask to be released?
I feel like the contracts TSL gives its players are weirdly easy to get out of.
Either way TSL was kind of set up for this with FD/Trickster leaving so easily Puma probably thought he could do the same.
Who knows, maybe FruitDealer and Startale were already in talks before FD decided to leave TSL. That would basically make it the same situation as we have here now.
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On July 22 2011 03:00 xXFireandIceXx wrote:Show nested quote +People should be focusing on how this could be a stepping stone for EG into the Korean scene; set up some form of house-house collaboration like the oGs-Liquid house so that their players can have more experience etc. It presents a good opportunity for the continued development of the community and people should see it as such! Dude, this is NOT the same as the oGs-Liquid cooperation. The important word is cooperation. Doesn't seem like it here...and I doubt TSL is very happy to be "working with" EG...
EG and TSL arent the one's cooperating. the point is that a notable korean player is willing to play with a foreign team. i highly doubt EG operated as unethically as people here are claiming, and the fact that a good korean pro is interested in such a transition, they can use that to continue to expand their roster
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United States15275 Posts
On July 22 2011 02:50 xXFireandIceXx wrote:This was from the EG site from one of the users Show nested quote +Altho things on tliquid are getting out of hand, the majority of ppl don't understand how business works in the real life not the "flower power double rainbow pink world". I'd just really love to see EG's statement. I mean, this is pretty big news and it would clear up so much ambiguity with the case.
lol that's the catchphrase everyone with a guilty conscience uses.
We don't know the specifics of the deal, so let's wait until both sides give their respective accounts.
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United States22883 Posts
On July 22 2011 03:02 Proko wrote:http://twitter.com/#!/zlasher12According to Zlasher, Puma was a free agent. This makes the deal open and shut in my mind.
This should never be your source on anything, ever.
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United States12607 Posts
On July 22 2011 03:02 Proko wrote:http://twitter.com/#!/zlasher12According to Zlasher, Puma was a free agent. This makes the deal open and shut in my mind.
I can't find where Zlasher got this information. He at one point tweeted "PlayXP says he wasn't under a contract" (which would be big information) but then said "That could potentially be wrong sorry ;o"
Just did some more snooping and found that 10 hours ago Milkis tweeted this http://twitter.com/#!/OrangeMilkis/status/93943666883829762
"No one knows if Puma was or wasn't under a contract so let's not speculate over that stuff ^_^"
Since he's probably most familiar with the breaking news on this I think it's safe to assume that whether PuMa had a contract is up in the air.
Because the TSL coach didn't mention it in the article in the OP I'm guessing not, but that's pure speculation on my part.
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There is clearly a difference between Korean and American sensibilities when it comes to employment and an individuals career choices. There is no reason for EG not to go directly to a player they are interested in. Unless said player and team have a specific arrangement in their contract giving the coaches a right to negotiation, these decisions should be made by the player. Even so, what's preventing a counter offer from TSL?
This type of arrangement is in the best interest of the players, and I think TSL's coach is out of line suggesting there should be some type of regulation for acquiring players. Welcome to an efficient and fair price system!
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Pretty shady from EG to make this kind of a move. Not really digging it. 
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On July 22 2011 03:02 Proko wrote:http://twitter.com/#!/zlasher12According to Zlasher, Puma was a free agent. This makes the deal open and shut in my mind.
Makes the most sense. Same with FD and trickster. IMO, for the 2 players being paid the most, they sure got out of their contract pretty easily too.
Posters saying that they was stolen or that he was swept from underneath TSL aren't convincing at all. that just doesn't make any sense.
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On July 22 2011 03:05 deo1 wrote:
There is clearly a difference between Korean and American sensibilities when it comes to employment and an individuals career choices. There is no reason for EG not to go directly to a player they are interested in. Unless said player and team have a specific arrangement in their contract giving the coaches a right to negotiation, these decisions should be made by the player. Even so, what's preventing a counter offer from TSL?
This type of arrangement is in the best interest of the players, and I think TSL's coach is out of line suggesting there should be some type of regulation for acquiring players. Welcome to an efficient and fair price system!
well said indeed
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On July 22 2011 02:46 Agnosthar wrote:
As a huge admirer of Puma's play, I'm pretty concerned over the quality of his practice as a result of this EG transfer. I'm sure there'll be plenty of koreans that will practice with him, although presumably that's quite different to living in a team house discussing Starcraft 2 and refining new builds and idea's all day.
Team practice with EG seems problematic as well. Partly due to the cross server latency, but also the players EG have ostensibly aren't going to help Puma raise his game. No offence to EG members like Lzgamer, Incontrol and Strifecro, but they are unlikely to be able to give Puma much benefit from training with them.
Does anyone think Puma's quality of practice won't suffer? I'd like to hear your reasons for that.
I've been mulling this over for a while now, and I'm not sure I have an answer. I want to say, "Yes, his play will suffer," but I have very little to support the claim until we actually know what Puma is going to do. If he stays in Korea, I'm sure he'll be fine, though it's possible his skill might drop a tiny bit due to having to practice at the leisure of those other players willing to practice with him. He also won't have access to a team house, which means no access to extensive help with theorycrafting, coach support, and/or solid build order refinement. Basically, he's teamless in Korea, and we all know how well that works out (e.g. lOvShinyStar, who is good, but not great because he lacks that refinement that players pick up in a teamhouse).
If Puma leaves Korea, then I simply don't know how he's going to keep up with the metagame unless he's willing to put up with a great deal of lag to ladder there. Sen is good not only because he's damn good, but because he ladders on the Korean server, and I just don't see how someone can be a top, top player if they can't keep up with the constant metagame shifts that happen almost every week in Korea.
That said, I don't think he'll leave. His English is nonexistent, he's shy, and EG's wording that they'll fly him out to foreign events suggests that he'll stay right where he is, just not in a teamhouse.
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On July 22 2011 03:04 Jibba wrote:This should never be your source on anything, ever.
FXO Seth is saying the same thing and is a pretty legit guy.
EG offered a free agent a contract. The free agent decided to accept it. The team that didn't want to contract player is upset they didn't - FXOSeth
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I love 190+ pages of outrage when we still don't know any details (and most likely never will).
From the bare facts we currently have there could be at least 3 scenarios:
1) Puma had some sort of contract (maybe oral only) with TSL and EG more or less "poached" him (approached him with a much better offer and more or less forced TSL to release him, because he wouldn't play well if they tried to keep him by legal force).
2) Puma and TSL had no specific contract just a monthly wage he was being paid (if i understood it correctly this would be normal in Korea) and EG approached him with a true contract.
3) Puma and TSL had no specific contract and no true wages, he was "paid" by being able to live in their practice house and being coached (also something not unknown in korean esports) before EG approached him.
If it truly was Scenario 1 than EGs behaviour would be both morally and legally suspect, the problem is though that TSL has almost no chance to take them to court for it (and frankly i doubt that was the true scenario).
Scenarios 2 and 3 seem far more likely, and basically both boil down to TSL not being able or willing to give Puma a proper binding contract beforehand.
Now honestly i don't know enough about Korean culture to comment, but i know very well that any kind of European Sport is organized via contracts. Hell we have contracts for 12 year olds in european Soccer leagues, just to make sure that if they sign to a different Team 6 years later, their former Team will get money.
If SC2 wants to become a true e-sport it will inevitably move in such a direction. Contracts are needed to give both players and teams a sense of security, which is required for a professional sport.
As long as you don't give them that, you can hardly be surprised when they take a better offer from someone who is willing to give them those benefits.
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On July 22 2011 03:03 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 02:50 xXFireandIceXx wrote:This was from the EG site from one of the users Altho things on tliquid are getting out of hand, the majority of ppl don't understand how business works in the real life not the "flower power double rainbow pink world". I'd just really love to see EG's statement. I mean, this is pretty big news and it would clear up so much ambiguity with the case. lol that's the catchphrase everyone with a guilty conscience uses. We don't know the specifics of the deal, so let's wait until both sides give their respective accounts.
Hahaha yeah I thought the same reading that...
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Scoots: Skin care 24h + SPA
Puma: Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
TSL Manager : fuck it
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On July 22 2011 03:04 Jibba wrote:This should never be your source on anything, ever.
Isnt this our source for this entire situation? milkis tweets that puma joins eg. coach lee snaps, playxp says the same. Do we have official press from either side?
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http://twitter.com/#!/FXOSheth
Sheth said the same. So, we'll see. if Puma was under contract we'll need a lot more details, if he wasn't it's open and shut.
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Very shady move by EG. Legal, but morally wrong.
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On July 22 2011 02:54 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 02:45 JasKo wrote:
SOME of you are ridiculous do you not know how it works in real sports? the player normally goes to the highest bidder, loyalty is sometimes involved, but only when the money change wont make that much of a difference. What EG did wasn't shady, in fact, it is helping players to actually be able to make a living off of e sports. TSL could have offered more, but they couldn't. Why should Puma, and other players, be deprived of this opportunity? That's not at all how it works in real sports. What bothers me far more than the EG-TSL situation is all the idiots in this thread who chime in with an inane comment like "this is just like real sports!" when it actually isn't. Professional sports have an organized system of free agency whereby original teams generally get Right Of First Refusal on anyone that isn't an unrestricted free agent. That usually means that they can match or outbid other teams to retain their players. An unrestricted free agent is teamless. While these tiers don't exist in SC2 (yet), it's pretty clear Puma wasn't teamless. We don't know the details of TSL's contracts but it doesn't seem very strong or else it would have a NCC, but that still doesn't make someone an unrestricted free agent, and it still doesn't make this situation anything like professional sports or Lebron/Miami.
It's sad that a moderator has to say this for people to listen... but I guess the chance to act cool on the internet is to tempting for most people...
This wasn't done correctly, obviously.
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Congrats EG for picking up such a quality player.
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EPT
