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On July 22 2011 03:15 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 03:14 WhiteDog wrote:On July 22 2011 03:05 JWD wrote:On July 22 2011 03:02 Proko wrote:http://twitter.com/#!/zlasher12According to Zlasher, Puma was a free agent. This makes the deal open and shut in my mind. I can't find where Zlasher got this information. He at one point tweeted "PlayXP says he wasn't under a contract" (which would be big information) but then said "That could potentially be wrong sorry ;o" Just did some more snooping and found that 10 hours ago Milkis tweeted this http://twitter.com/#!/OrangeMilkis/status/93943666883829762"No one knows if Puma was or wasn't under a contract so let's not speculate over that stuff ^_^" Since he's probably most familiar with the breaking news on this I think it's safe to assume that whether PuMa had a contract is up in the air. Because the TSL coach didn't mention it in the article in the OP I'm guessing not, but that's pure speculation on my part. Even if Puma was or not in contract, that's not the point. He was in some kind of moral contract with his team : even amateurs have moral contract with their team. I'm in a team, and switching to another team without talking first to the leaders of my current team would not be a good way to do it... Contract or not, EG should have talked to TSL first, not to bargain with them but just to clarify the situation and move on. moral contract lol
Friendship ?
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On July 22 2011 02:47 LuciferSC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 02:16 shell wrote:
In europe this is common bussiness in the football scene!
Many times teams aproach players or get his agent to talk to him!
Players sometimes force their way out of contracts by:
a) telling they wont perform
b) not participating in practice sessions
c) comming out in public saying they want to leave or have a bad relation with the coach etc..
In this case it seems like he doesn't have a contract and a salary..
YES IT'S NORMAL! YES IT HAPPENS! and no one should be angry at EG! What EG did is dishonorable, and yes they did steal a player. It may be legally done, but it definitely isn't done honorably. Now, it is TSL's fault for not having contract made with their players. They have no one to blame but to kick themselves for having an incidence like this happen. This should be a lesson for all pro teams to sign contracts with their players to make sure all trade/scouting is done fairly. Now I'm sure this decision is end up being very detrimental for Puma. He was developing to be a solid player, but now that he is without a proper infrastructure and players to practice with (now that he's in EG, whether he does/does not practice with them) we all know he's going to become a B class player. (he may still be somewhat successful in the foreign scene, but he's settling for something less)
I agree, this is very detrimental for Puma. He must have been driven irrational by the dirty money EG threw at him.
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United States22883 Posts
On July 22 2011 03:12 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 03:09 Jibba wrote:On July 22 2011 03:06 TheButtonmen wrote:On July 22 2011 03:04 Jibba wrote:On July 22 2011 03:02 Proko wrote:http://twitter.com/#!/zlasher12According to Zlasher, Puma was a free agent. This makes the deal open and shut in my mind. This should never be your source on anything, ever. FXO Seth is saying the same thing and is a pretty legit guy. EG offered a free agent a contract. The free agent decided to accept it. The team that didn't want to contract player is upset they didn't - FXOSeth No, he's a nice guy with Korean connections. That doesn't mean he's privy to TSL's contracts. Quite frankly none of us are, probably including Milkis and every other "in the know" person posting. If Puma/FD/Trickster were getting paid (which seems to be the case since TSL was reportedly the first SC2 team to start paying people) then there is some sort of contract in place. We give you money, you play/live under our clan/house. That's a contract. Anything beyond that is speculation. Jibba, source on TSL paying its players? This is news to me; I've been reading in this thread that PuMa was making nothing. Payment definitely implies a contract. But who knows whether that contract included anything about talking to competing teams, or early termination.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=201086
I haven't seen anything credible on what Puma's situation was. That was a while ago, so the information only covers FD/Trickster.
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I referenced this earlier but it got lost in all of the craziness. Yesterdays Live On Three (fast forward to 48:00) talked about an almost exact situation that happened between SK gaming and Fnatic. It gives alot of insight about player/team contracts, players terminating contracts and the acquisition of these players. I think anyone following this thread should watch the interview and get a new perspective on this topic.
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On July 22 2011 03:16 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 03:15 zev318 wrote:On July 22 2011 03:14 WhiteDog wrote:On July 22 2011 03:05 JWD wrote:On July 22 2011 03:02 Proko wrote:http://twitter.com/#!/zlasher12According to Zlasher, Puma was a free agent. This makes the deal open and shut in my mind. I can't find where Zlasher got this information. He at one point tweeted "PlayXP says he wasn't under a contract" (which would be big information) but then said "That could potentially be wrong sorry ;o" Just did some more snooping and found that 10 hours ago Milkis tweeted this http://twitter.com/#!/OrangeMilkis/status/93943666883829762"No one knows if Puma was or wasn't under a contract so let's not speculate over that stuff ^_^" Since he's probably most familiar with the breaking news on this I think it's safe to assume that whether PuMa had a contract is up in the air. Because the TSL coach didn't mention it in the article in the OP I'm guessing not, but that's pure speculation on my part. Even if Puma was or not in contract, that's not the point. He was in some kind of moral contract with his team : even amateurs have moral contract with their team. I'm in a team, and switching to another team without talking first to the leaders of my current team would not be a good way to do it... Contract or not, EG should have talked to TSL first, not to bargain with them but just to clarify the situation and move on. moral contract lol Friendship ?
ever heard of friendship and business dont mix? Not 100% of the case but letting friendship come before business usually leads to problems.
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Canada1403 Posts
On July 22 2011 03:15 JWD wrote:
Thanks very much for that link guys. I'm going to update the OP with that information. Definitely suggests that there was some contract between TSL and PuMa, but who knows whether this incident implicates any of its terms.
Coach Lee confirms that Puma had no contract.
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Everyone keeps talking about Moral code, but TSL isn't doing something right. Puma seems to be a respectable person use to practice with a lot of top pros in Korea i am sure he would be kinder to his coach if he respected him. You don't hear players leaving on bad terms with oGs, ST, or IM, but TSL losing 4 players recently. If it was needed to be morally right, then most likely Puma would have talked to his coach about it more. Morals in this situation has to be for everyone not just the party you think looks shady.
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On July 22 2011 03:14 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 03:05 JWD wrote:On July 22 2011 03:02 Proko wrote:http://twitter.com/#!/zlasher12According to Zlasher, Puma was a free agent. This makes the deal open and shut in my mind. I can't find where Zlasher got this information. He at one point tweeted "PlayXP says he wasn't under a contract" (which would be big information) but then said "That could potentially be wrong sorry ;o" Just did some more snooping and found that 10 hours ago Milkis tweeted this http://twitter.com/#!/OrangeMilkis/status/93943666883829762"No one knows if Puma was or wasn't under a contract so let's not speculate over that stuff ^_^" Since he's probably most familiar with the breaking news on this I think it's safe to assume that whether PuMa had a contract is up in the air. Because the TSL coach didn't mention it in the article in the OP I'm guessing not, but that's pure speculation on my part. Even if Puma was or not in contract, that's not the point. He was in some kind of moral contract with his team : even amateurs have moral contract with their team. I'm in a team, and switching to another team without talking first to the leaders of my current team would not be a good way to do it... Contract or not, EG should have talked to TSL first, not to bargain with them but just to clarify the situation and move on.
In that case the responsibility lies with Puma imo.
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On July 21 2011 15:00 Milkis wrote:
EG claims that Puma approached them first regarding joining their team, but this is not true. As I know it, EG's owner contacted Puma first. Not only Puma, but other Korean players."
No surprise there
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What an unexpected move from EG, I mean really I'm a big fan but this decision is really disapointing
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wholy shit 200 pages, i ve read the OP, wanted to read the thread, but it d take a day. I wonder if some sort of regulations will be introduced in the future. Possibly sg like Kespa
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so it looks like no contract, but EG is saying that puma went to them while TSL is saying that EG went to puma and other koreans. I am just glad that EG has a new star player.
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On July 22 2011 03:17 Arcanne wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:00 Milkis wrote:
EG claims that Puma approached them first regarding joining their team, but this is not true. As I know it, EG's owner contacted Puma first. Not only Puma, but other Korean players."
No surprise there
way to jump to conclusions, "as he knows it". unless u hear from puma or EG, u dont know the truth
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United States15275 Posts
Well, Lee's given us his input. Now EG has to step up to the plate.
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On July 22 2011 03:17 Arcanne wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 15:00 Milkis wrote:
EG claims that Puma approached them first regarding joining their team, but this is not true. As I know it, EG's owner contacted Puma first. Not only Puma, but other Korean players."
No surprise there
I'm glad the other Korean players at least recognized how much shit would be stirred up over this and/or retained enough loyalty to their teams to refuse him.
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Canada1403 Posts
On July 22 2011 03:18 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Well, Lee's given us his input. Now EG has to step up to the plate.
-shrug- It's pretty clear cut from their PoV.
Puma approchs them interested in joining.
EG finds out Puma has no contract.
EG does a happy dance.
EG signs Puma.
TSL does a sad dance.
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Steall all dem koreans!! Money is real talk! They need to break the slave labor conditions of Korea so progamers can become an actual reality. All the protectionist crap of Kespa and now SC2 teams to ensure those players get almost diddly is what makes it totally unviable to be a progamer in this day and age. Korean wages for their progamers are god awful. Only the absolute top get anything.
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At least he didn't have a contract. So that argument is out.
In a sense, this is good because it will make all of the other teams get contracts.
Go EG!!!
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Wow @ Coach Lee's statement. EG not making any friends in Korea.
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5003 Posts
On July 22 2011 03:19 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 03:18 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Well, Lee's given us his input. Now EG has to step up to the plate. -shrug- It's pretty clear cut from their PoV. Puma approchs them interested in joining. EG finds out Puma has no contract. EG does a happy dance. EG signs Puma. TSL does a sad dance.
puma did not approach them first, lol
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EPT
