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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On July 22 2011 03:17 Angelbelow wrote: ever heard of friendship and business dont mix? Not 100% of the case but letting friendship come before business usually leads to problems. Not friendship so... respect or trust ? Just read TSL stance that's exactly my point. Don't try to make it sound like what I'm saying is stupid because you're an EG fan. | ||
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Angelbelow
United States3728 Posts
no contract no matter. the moral argument is the only one thats left. | ||
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TheButtonmen
Canada1401 Posts
How do you know? EG says they were approched, TSL coach says EG approched Puma. It's a giant game of he said / she said so instead of dealing with that I just used the phrase from their PoV. I'm not making any bold claims about which side is bullshitting to save face. | ||
JWD
United States12607 Posts
On July 22 2011 03:17 TheButtonmen wrote: Coach Lee confirms that Puma had no contract. That certainly seems to be the implication of his first paragraph. If this is the case I can only say that I am surprised TSL would hang the security of its business venture on expectations (however strong) that players will always shy away from attractive offers purely because of an unwritten ethical code. | ||
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Grimsong
United States252 Posts
On July 22 2011 02:54 Jibba wrote: That's not at all how it works in real sports. What bothers me far more than the EG-TSL situation is all the idiots in this thread who chime in with an inane comment like "this is just like real sports!" when it actually isn't. Professional sports have an organized system of free agency whereby original teams generally get Right Of First Refusal on anyone that isn't an unrestricted free agent. That usually means that they can match or outbid other teams to retain their players. An unrestricted free agent is teamless. While these tiers don't exist in SC2 (yet), it's pretty clear Puma wasn't teamless. We don't know the details of TSL's contracts but it doesn't seem very strong or else it would have a NCC, but that still doesn't make someone an unrestricted free agent, and it still doesn't make this situation anything like professional sports or Lebron/Miami. Hold on here. You're wrong. Here's why. Rudy Fernandez is a professional basketball player. (Puma is a SC2 pro SC2 player) He plays within the league, the NBA (Currently there is no equivalent to the NBA in SC2. But in a sense, you could say that Korea is a league. and North America is a league. Lets say that. I like it as an analogy.) While Rudy Fernandez is being contracted within the NBA, Rudy Fernandez (While Puma was playing with TSL. We dont know 100% whether he is contracted or not, and even if he is, we dont know that the contract has the wording involved to legally stop something like this from happening, in Korea) was offered a contract from a team in Spain (a team that exists outside of the league, the NBA. EG, a team that exists outside of Korea). The NBA did not fine, or go after, or threaten, the Spanish club that was offering Rudy a contract. Why? Because they aren't a part of their association. They can't pursue anything, realistically, because they aren't affiliated. The league cant impose any infractions because they are not related or under the same rules and regulations. Rudy signing a contract with Spain to play Basketball is equivalent to Rudy signing a contract with South Africa to go Alligator Hunting. It's his choice. He can do whatever he wants while still honoring his contract. If he chose to play in Spain, he would have to work out with his current team (Dallas Mavericks. TSL) how to work out the contract. Whether it's them essentially waiving his contract (what TSL did to Puma, oh hello analogy), or sitting on it as it will be valid if he ever tries to re-enter the league, the NBA (whatever wording that contract he may have with TSL would be valid because he'd be re-entering that league,perse). That would have been up to Dallas/Rudy to sort out. But Spain had every right to offer the contract without asking Mark Cuban (the owner of the Dallas team) if he'd be ok with it. And guess what? No one in the NBA gave a damn about it because this is a common occurence in the league. | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
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Soap
Brazil1546 Posts
"It's not just TSL, but most Starcraft II teams right now run on trust and faith instead of contracts. So the korean SC2 scene is being run by amateurs, no wonder it isn't exactly thriving. | ||
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imperator-xy
Germany1366 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + fuck them User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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KaveX
Germany59 Posts
That might be true for south korea, but EG, mouz, fnatic, aTn all have player contracts since the beginning. | ||
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caradoc
Canada3022 Posts
On July 22 2011 03:20 nvs. wrote: Wow @ Coach Lee's statement. EG not making any friends in Korea. agreed-- and they're not helping their image outside of korea either, judging by the reaction. This is really another case of bad long term planning on EG's part. It might make short term sense to acquire a player like Puma, and doing so in the way that seems to be implicated in this thread may be the most effective way to do so, but this really doesn't help their brand equity in the community itself, which is really one of the most important assets of any team. EDIT: it appears from the clarification in the OP that Puma was not under contract. regardless of the fact that this makes the acquisition legal-- it definitely doesn't buy currency in the domain of public image. | ||
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-Frog-
United States514 Posts
1) Puma telling TSL that he wants to join EG. is worse than 2) EG telling TSL that Puma wants to join EG. Can someone flesh this out for me? Why is it a big deal that the player contact his team instead of EG's management. | ||
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nvs.
Canada3609 Posts
I'm not making any bold claims about which side is bullshitting to save face. Well judging from past events and such I would say it is EG, but perhaps we will never know. I guess we just have to suck it up and move on, and hope players are better protected in the future. | ||
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Ocedic
United States1808 Posts
On July 22 2011 03:19 TheButtonmen wrote: -shrug- It's pretty clear cut from their PoV. Puma approchs them interested in joining. EG finds out Puma has no contract. EG does a happy dance. EG signs Puma. TSL does a sad dance. Except it was clearly stated that Puma did not approach them first. And numerous people, INCLUDING other Western managers such as Xeris have confirmed that the EG manager was approaching many players, including Sen. On July 22 2011 03:22 Soap wrote: So the korean SC2 scene is being run by amateurs, no wonder it isn't exactly thriving. This is the most ignorant thing I've seen posted in this thread yet. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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oogieogie
United States3657 Posts
he is saying that is EGs PoV, and I personally would rather have proof if puma approached EG or not insted of obviously bias opinions. (no offense) | ||
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SnakEhead
United States62 Posts
Well EG clams he did actually approach them... | ||
Milkis
5003 Posts
On July 22 2011 03:21 TheButtonmen wrote: How do you know? EG says they were approched, TSL coach says EG approched them. It's a giant game of he said / she said so instead of dealing with that I just used the phrase from their PoV. I'm not making any bold claims about which side is bullshitting to save face. I have my sources. EG approached Korean players in this case. Period. | ||
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DueSs
United States765 Posts
On July 8, 2010, James announced on a live ESPN special, The Decision, that he would be playing for the Miami Heat for the 2010–11 season and teaming with Miami's other All-Star free agent signees Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh. Former NBA players criticized his decision to not stay with Cleveland and continuing to try to win a championship as "the guy". Michael Jordan stated that he would not have contacted his rivals from other teams like Magic Johnson and Larry Bird to play on one team together, as "I wanted to defeat those guys." Jordan added that "...things are different [now]. I can't say that's a bad thing. It's an opportunity these kids have today." Johnson echoed Jordan's sentiments on teaming with rivals. AFAIK, People never hated Miami for going after Lebron. | ||
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felizuno
United States164 Posts
Milkis, I was wondering if you knew more about this b/c of your translating. I don't remember if I saw you at NASL finals or not, but if you were did you witness any conversations between Puma and Scoots/Alex/Other EG'ers? Not asking you to spill the beans on what was said, but do you have an insider information about who was initiating this conversation? Did anybody ask you to help them talk with Puma? | ||
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On July 22 2011 03:21 WhiteDog wrote: Not friendship so... respect or trust ? Just read TSL stance that's exactly my point. Don't try to make it sound like what I'm saying is stupid because you're an EG fan. i still dont understand ur point, so they were running on trust and friendship. and? puma can't say ok i wanna make some money? he did talk to the coach and they released him so puma did talk to his coach. | ||
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Shaxe
Netherlands590 Posts
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